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So, in the space of two days, I have played two games against Eldar and in both games I have been completely destroyed. I have FAILED to make a single assult in both games , with one game seeing me gunned down whilst still in my deployment zone (curse you Hammer and Anvil!).
The bulk of the death has come from my opponents two blobs of 10 guardians, walkers and his 4 jetbikes.

In both cases I have run with a warboss,6 nobs and a painboy. Two blobs of 29 boyz + a nob.
In the second game I had more points so I ran with 8 lootas and 3 big gunz, well. Also in the second game I ran one blob as shoota boys and the other as normal sluggas, as I wanted to test the effectivness of the shoota mob (GIven the assult phase of the game has been reemed, and reemed hard at that.)

I obviously need to be my boys into combat, however I am not a fan of taking trucks with only 12 boys in them. Battlewagons are an option, but they aren't exactly cheap.
I could run a a squad of stormboyz with Zag to tie up one of his units and take out some of the shooting.
Just looking for some help as to how to play them. My next list against them can be a total of 1150 points (We're playing a campaign, thus the awkard points total.)

ok wel i dont play orks but a few minutes on army builder and i came up with this

HQ
Warboss gos with burnas in battlewagon
eavy armor
cybork armor
power klaw
100

Troops

11 boyz
1 nob with klaw
1 trukk with rokkit launcha
157

11 boyz
1 nob with klaw
1 trukk with rokkit launcha
157

11 boyz
1 nob with klaw
1 trukk with rokkit launcha
157

Elites

9 burnas
135

10 lootas
150

10 lootas
150

Heavy support

Battlewagon
2 big shoota
2 rocket launchas
deffrolla
red paint job
145

thats 1151

Except your list shows trukks which he said he didnt like, and a battlewagon, which he said was a bit pricey. Way to listen to the thread




Post what you can take, so what do you have as far as Orks go? That will better help with what you need.

I am not adverse to using Trukks and Battlewagons, but it just seems to me that mobs of 12 boys are a waste. When I have access to more points (we increase the limit as the campaign goes on), multiple battlewagons will be a viable option.

I have access to:
Boyz, boyz and more boyz
15 Nobs,
8 Lootas
8 Burnas
6 Warbikers
2 trukks
1 Battlewagon
1 looted wagon
10 Stormboyz
I have a couple of meks I can use, same with weirdboyz.
1 DakkaJet
3 Killa Kans
6 deffkoptas.

Our rules allow for proxies, so I can up the numbers on them easily.

If you can use count as models...

I'd go with

Big Mek with KFF, no other upgrades

15 lootas x 3
shoota boys x 30 man blocks. x2 No nob. No bosspole. bunch of heavy shootas
Kannons x 3 with full grots
10 man grot squad

Just take off a few lootas to make your points even but keep 3 squads as high as possible. Then when you expand, just add more lootas and then more shoota boys squads and then dakkajets if you have it then zaap guns after that

More shoota boyz and lootas seems to work vs everyone.

Billagio wrote:More shoota boyz and lootas seems to work vs everyone.

Lootas are the ork answer to just about everything that can't be solved with Gazzy

Exergy wrote:

Billagio wrote:More shoota boyz and lootas seems to work vs everyone.

Lootas are the ork answer to just about everything that can't be solved with Gazzy Or Mwar Boyz!

Fixed that for you

Tagboard Wizard wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Billagio wrote:More shoota boyz and lootas seems to work vs everyone.

Lootas are the ork answer to just about everything that can't be solved with Gazzy Or Mwar Boyz!

Fixed that for you

mwar boyz are the answer to everything except: "how do I get my whole army in one case and deployed before my opponent gets bored and wandered off? Lootas and Gazzy solve that question.

You need some trash mobs to distract him, or to take the over watch. Small squads of grots, or smaller squads of boyz.

Charge the little squad in, if they take the over watch good. If he holds off to overwatch the 30 boyz, the grotz get into hand to hand. either way boyz get in.

Exergy wrote:

Tagboard Wizard wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Billagio wrote:More shoota boyz and lootas seems to work vs everyone.

Lootas are the ork answer to just about everything that can't be solved with Gazzy Or Mwar Boyz!

Fixed that for you

mwar boyz are the answer to everything except: "how do I get my whole army in one case and deployed before my opponent gets bored and wandered off? Lootas and Gazzy solve that question.

And thus, the Circle is complete!

Mega armoured warboss is your answer

Put him in the front so that he soaks up all damage. Throw some Dakkajets at him and it's GG.

So how does more boyz solve the warwalker problem? Equipped with scatter lasers, they put down 8 shots at S6 each, the discount variant is still six shots. If his opponent brings nine of them (which isn't that expensive, considering that the rest of his army doesn't cost a lot), that's 22 dead orks each turn - assuming none are fortuned. They can easily gun down two entire mobs before you even cross no-mans land. Lootaz are the way to go against eldar, they rip through both vehicles and their light infantry with ease. 3x 15 might be an overinvestment, but 2x15 should be a great help already. Due to eldar long-range firepower I'd discourage mobs of five, they are gunned down way too easily. A unit of 15 is capable of destroying an entire unit of warwalker in one shooting phase, so that's your solution.

The four jet bikes seem odd. Are sure, that those aren't Vipers (Vehicles with two guns)? Or is this his HQ choice? If not, are those troops or fast attack choices?

I also assume he is using guardians with heavy weapon platforms. How does he arm them? Scatter lasers or EML? You could also try a burna bommer with four skorcha missiles in addition to your dakkajet. With S5 AP4 and ignore cover you kill every guardian you hit on a 2+, and the supa-shoota and TL-big shoota might kill some more. Anything that tries to shoot the planes down also not shooting at boyz, making your assault more likely again.

As for dropping the nob, this can backfire heavily. Eldar have ready access to the telepathy psychic table, which can take away fearless and have you roll moral tests for all kind of stuff. The boss pole is invaluable for this. You also want to force your opponent to gun down your boyz to the last one. 7 running boyz can't rally, but would still be enough attack power to shift some guardians. You also have to account for not being able to handle the walkers in close combat. If they manage to counter-charge you, your mob will never be able to hurt them at all without a nob.
I can see an argument for dropping the powerklaw against eldar to save points, but you should still get the nob+BP for 15 points.

Otherwise sudojoes advice is pretty good. Screw Zzapguns though, unless you share GW's view on rolling 2d6 being the most fun thing ever. They are the second worst model in our codex. Stay with kannons, they are both efficient and reliable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

illuknisaa wrote:Mega armoured warboss is your answer

Put him in the front so that he soaks up all damage. Throw some Dakkajets at him and it's GG.

Considering that most of the eldar's army is stationary (warwalkers, guardians) that might work, yeah. If the eldar player starts fielding more skimmers and jet bikes this will fall apart quickly though.

Yeah those walkers with the scatter lasers have been tearing me to shreads. He has been fielding them as single units, so seeing as he takes three of them, then his jetbikes must be being taken as a troop choice.

I planned to take lootas the next round. I was thinking two units of 10, as well as a unit of three Kannons.

I mostly have zaap guns for fun and the AP value at high enough points. I've been really enjoying dakka orks and it has worked well vs just about everything.

I'm not even afraid of necron air forces that much just from the sheer crazy amount of bodies I have. I also do not really care much if I assault things or not anymore.

Good catch on the bosspole. I haven't had many psychic powers yet cast against my orks but this is definately a concern of mine.

I think based on your suggestions, I will probably have to ally in some eldar (just a farseer with ghost helm + jetbike + runes of warding hiding way the heck in the back) and like a squad of dire avengers or something to replace the grots and zaap guns. Maybe have some sort of eldar long range thingy like those guys that ignore cover thingy (total eldar noob but been shot by them a bunch)

Other than allies, orks are horribly vulnerable to enemy psyker firepower and I think I've just gotten lucky as people tend to play their psyker craziness vs my GK's and something else vs my orks.

corey3977 wrote:Yeah those walkers with the scatter lasers have been tearing me to shreads. He has been fielding them as single units, so seeing as he takes three of them, then his jetbikes must be being taken as a troop choice.

I planned to take lootas the next round. I was thinking two units of 10, as well as a unit of three Kannons.

Mega warboss will just laugh at those lasers with his 2+ save. Put him in 30 boy unit and at best you lose 2-3 boyz. Get another dakkajet just to make sure those jetbikes die. This leaves you with 500-600 points. I suggest you use them two units of boyz and maybe a unit of lootas.

One of my mates runs a Kan Wall (3 squads of 3 Kans w/ rokkit launchas) in every game. It is quite hard to take out, even using Guass Crons. Just hide behind it, assuming he dosent have lances

I wouldn't exactly call it "laughing". Every scatter laser has a 21% chance of putting a wound on your warboss. That means the unit of warwalkers the OP described has a 75% chance of putting one or more wounds into your boss, so, combined with those heavy weapon platforms, he is pretty likely to be unable to take any more saves for his unit as early as turn two. Unless you want to gamble on a VP, of course. Weight of fire beats 2+ armor just as well as AP2, orks should know this best.

sudojoe: There is nothing wrong with fielding a unit for fun, but despite AP2, zzap guns are terrible at killing anything. Even against terminators, between random strength, BS3 and 5++ saves not a lot of them are going to die.

IHateNids: Are you sure your mate is using 6th edition rules?

Sure lasers can put some wounds on the boss but the boss is expendable. Eldar player dedicates his main killing power to kill a single model. 60+ boyz, lootas and dakkajets can easily shred rest of the eldar army to bits. It takes maybe 2-3 turns to get to cc and warboss maybe loses a wound per turn. Atleast the boss is going to buy some time for the dakkajets which will destroy the walkers.

4 units of minimal grots (purely for objectives )
2 dakkajets
1 burna bomma
1 kff big mek
3 battle wagons with deff rollas
fill the rest out with lootas.

You might have to proxy something for that list, but it seems pretty solid.

Jidmah wrote:IHateNids: Are you sure your mate is using 6th edition rules?

I havent fought his orks since 6th dropped, why?

IHateNids wrote:

Jidmah wrote:IHateNids: Are you sure your mate is using 6th edition rules?

I havent fought his orks since 6th dropped, why?

Because Kanz only get two hull points each, only 5+ cover from the KFF and they don't provide any more cover to the orks behind them that the KFF would anyways. In addition, they get hit by krak grenades and melta bombs on a 3+, a stunned result forces the other kanz to wait for the stunned one, and large blasts can easily kill two kanz at once. The kan wall is nowhere as strong as it has been.

Jidmah wrote:

IHateNids wrote:

Jidmah wrote:IHateNids: Are you sure your mate is using 6th edition rules?

I havent fought his orks since 6th dropped, why?

Because Kanz only get two hull points each, only 5+ cover from the KFF and they don't provide any more cover to the orks behind them that the KFF would anyways. In addition, they get hit by krak grenades and melta bombs on a 3+, a stunned result forces the other kanz to wait for the stunned one, and large blasts can easily kill two kanz at once. The kan wall is nowhere as strong as it has been.

Meh, he dosent usually go for stuff that wins easily. I might still be seeing the Kans

What about bikers?
This is just an idea...

HQ: Wazdakka---180pts

Troops 1: 12 bikers 1 nob w/big choppa +bp---320pts

Troops 2: 12 bikers 1 nob w/big choppa +bp---320pts

Troops 3:16 grot and a rundherd---58pts

Troops 4:15 grot and a rundherd---55pts

Fast: 11 stormboyz led by zaggy---217pts

Like i said it's just an idea.

Nob Bikes are a viable option
bring along them and a warboss on a bike
you can use the warboss to hunt down wraithlords
where you can get a 5+ inv save followed by 5+ painboy feel no pain. best thing is being T6 in a challenge, S10 wraithlord cannot instakill him.

dakkajets are also great for wrecking warwalkers, as are your lootaz and bike dakkagun shots.

My only real concern with biker lists, is the DAKKAgun only shoots 18 inches. And in 6th, the way movement and charging is, thats not a lot of breathing room. And biker boyz still die as easy as before. Im really digging stock koptas, Ill give 1 a buzzsaw points permitting, but all those TL bigshoota shots is nothing to scoff at, and its 36 inches instead of 18. Even when I get my 2 DAKKAjets Ill probably keep 1 full unit of koptas around. 6th definitely seems to be the edition of trying different units for a change. I never really used koptas in 5th, but now, Ive used them in every game so far

In 5th i always used koptas w/ tl rokkits in 600pt school league. a unit of 3 scouting and killing pretty much anything as long as you get behind (im talking about tanks) and now only S10 can insta kill them

Yup, I dont have to cower when a missile is launched at them. They pretty much just shrug it off now