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I have been running and tweeking this list since 6th edition has come out, let me know what you think. Also if you don't like MegaNobz I would love to hear the reason why, thanks!

HQ:
Warboss Biker, PK, Cybork- 135
Warboss Mega Armor, Cybork-110

Troops:
6x Nob Bikers-360
-PB
-2PK
-6 cybork
-Waaagh Banner

20x shoota boyz-120
20x shoota boyz-120

5x Mega Nobz- 225
-5 kombi skorchas
-DT Battlewagon, RPJ, 4 BS- 115

Elite:

5x Lootas-75
5x Lootas-75
5x Lootas-75

Heavy Support:
Battlewagon, 4 BS, RPJ- 115
Battlewagon 4 BS, RPJ- 115

Fast Attack:

1x Dakkajet, extra suppa shoota- 120
1x Dakkajet, extra suppa shoota- 120
1x Dakkajet, extra suppa shoota- 120

Total:
2000

I don't know Orks very well, but I would love to play against this list. Even if I got slaughtered with my Crons, I bet this would be a fun list.

I'm skeptical. Even though it looks pretty damn hard. Mostly, it seems like a no brainer to bring down the MANz wagon asap, and then a third of your scoring force is SNP around the field.
Have you have the experience of someone doing that yet?
I know it's about target priority in a list like this, so I can see the bikers and boyz causing a lot of problems with that, but, especially with no KFF, I'd be trying to burn down that MANz wagon first round if possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'm jealous, I'd love to run a MANz unit to get a feel for how krumpin they are, but with the single model price so high, and conversion/scratch options so damn fiddly, I'm disinclined to make any.
I suppose I could proxy, but it just always feels wrong.

I feel like ive seen you list before.... Hmmm not sure where tho. Anyways i dont like mega armor your paying 20 points extrafor a 2+ and PK. But you also are slow and purposeful. For orks you cant be slow you need to be able to get to where you need to be. which is on the other side of the other side of the table. Also i didnt do the math but dont you need a Painboy to give your squads Cybork bodys? i dont have my dex infront of me but that sounds right. I dont reli like the 20m squad id suggest 25+ and a Nob w/ a boss pole. Again dont like the Mega nobs and for about the same amount of points you can throw them on bikes and make them T5. You need more lootas5 isnt going to do much of anything. Whats the point of the 4 BS? you might as well drop 3 of em ull never shoot em and if you do youll probli miss w/ em all. Id suggest grabing more shooty power w/ Lootas make your enemy have to shoot at them the first turn while you charge up the field.

I would drop one jet and upgrade the other 2 to fighta aces, bill out your lootas with the rest of the points

I don't agree with your evaluation of mega nobz. Slow and purposeful is frustrating because you can't run, but they are in a BW, and I don't know if you have played a lot of turns, but the turn your trying to get that big assault you waaagh and don't run, again Slow and purposeful is annoying, but with rerollable 2d6 charge range you can get where you want to go, plus you automatically get six inches out of a BW that just moved 7, so.......... I'm just saying, the 2 armor save is amazing aganist power weapons, and I face a lot of those. Also I did pay for Painboy, its abbreviated PB. The small units of boyz is the weak point of the list, but because they are so cheap it allows me bring 3 dakkajets, 3 units of lootas, and two mini deathstars, plus three BW, which is a lot for 2k.

Do you need fight ace? In the rulebook it says "Flyers can choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule
at the start of each Shooting phase." pg 81.

I haven't played this in 6th, but I would recommend putting your Warboss on foot with a unit of Boyz instead of with your MANZ to spread out your threats. I know you would then have 2 SNP units, so maybe change him to a 'Eavy Armour Boss instead.

Don't know Orks too well but this on paper looks like a very solid list. Flyers, 2+ saves, bikes, and AV14. You've checked all the boxes.

Regarding SNP, I think matphat has forgotten that you are no longer restricted to D6" movement with it anymore.

Take out the dakkajets... Orkz get the most unusefull flyers around...

put your meganobs in a trukk, you want them to be at the face of the enemy the most sooner... You are the first to play? Fine, place them on the limit of deployment zone and move 18", them expect to be blow up, move more 6 and assault OR, move more 6, disembark 8 and assault.

Make another unit of squishy boyz in a BW, 3 BW are great, and make a great wall for truck and bikers. End it up by placing the Megaboss with a squad of boyz. Boyz are shield blobs for power klaws.

Put the lootas out, and fill fast attack with buggy or deffkopta squads with rokkits. Right now you can not deal with armor, except with claws.

My cents, please point where i could be wrong (im learning orkz in 6th too)

matphat wrote:I
Also, I'm jealous, I'd love to run a MANz unit to get a feel for how krumpin they are, but with the single model price so high, and conversion/scratch options so damn fiddly, I'm disinclined to make any.
I suppose I could proxy, but it just always feels wrong.

I have been snagging them off ebay for 12.99-14.99. Just have to be patient and persistant...

Thanks for all your feedback, it has got me thinking.

I'm not sure how others feel about dakkajets, but having two or three on the field and calling a waaagh is a pretty awesome feeling, you can cause some crazy wounds and pop a lot of vehicles. I just played this exact list against 6 storm ravens.... the lack of high AV killers hurt. It only took really one or two turns to wipe his ground units, but after he killed my lootas it was frustrating. I ended up winning 7 to 3 victory points, but it sucked. The bikers have always been great, and the Mega Nobz lay down some serious hurt, I'm just not sure what to do about the boyz. Everytime their BW gets exploded I loose like 10 or 11 of them, making them useless. I'm tempted to sneak the Meganobz in a trukk and have a third unit of boyz in the BW.

If your meta looked like this, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Tau, and Blood Angels, what do you think I could change to make this list better, thanks again for all you input!!

Dakkajets are a must to deal with enemy flyers. They mightn't deal with Ravens, but the majority of flyers are AV10-11.

How does this updated list look:
HQ:
Warboss Biker, PK, Cybork- 135
Warboss Mega Armor, Cybork-110

Troops:
6x Nob Bikers-360
-PB
-2PK
-6 cybork
-Waaagh Banner

20x shoota boyz-120
20x shoota boyz-120
20x shoota boyz-120

5x Mega Nobz- 225
-5 kombi skorchas
-DT Trukk RPJ, RR -45

Elite:

5x Lootas-75
5x Lootas-75
5x Lootas-75

Heavy Support:
Battlewagon, 1 BS, RPJ- 100
Battlewagon 1 BS, RPJ- 100
Battlewagon, RPJ, 1 BS- 100

Fast Attack:

1x Dakkajet, extra suppa shoota- 120
1x Dakkajet, extra suppa shoota- 120


Total:
2000

To improve upon the ability to fight marine armies, is to take out their transports and make them walk. Expose them to your boys shoota fire. The best way to do this is your Lootas. I am a big fan of units of 15 each. They will glance to death in one turn any marine rhino/razerback, and usually the same for IG transports. Range, strength 7 and the shots shots shots. I like two units of them. They cannot be ignored for target priority by your opponent, giving your other units a turn or two to get into your foe, and still have enough boys left to be a nuisance in the mid to late game.

I woudl switch Jets for buggies. I don't see the jets being worth ther points. I have tried them in 2 games and have done nothing for me, even during "Waaagh!" turn.

I understand they are nice for Skyfire. I just don't see any of the flliers being worth in other then the Stormraven, and you can hurt that. Wait till that goes to hover mood to drop off whatever is in it and assault.

I myself would rather have the Mnaz in a BW. One trukk is way to fragile.

Where is your Manz boss going? Seems like the only room you have is in with the other Manz. I would drop 2 boys from one squad to fit him in there.

Seems lilke a pretty good list though. My suggestions are purely personal.

How does this updated list look: not sure how rokkitbuggies play but I kind of really like this list
HQ:
Warboss Biker, PK, Cybork- 135
Warboss Mega Armor, Cybork-110

Troops:
6x Nob Bikers-360
-PB
-2PK
-6 cybork
-Waaagh Banner

20x shoota boyz-120
20x shoota boyz-120

5x Mega Nobz- 225
-5 kombi skorchas


Elite:

7x Lootas-105
7x Lootas-105
7x Lootas-105

Heavy Support:
Battlewagon, 1 BS, RPJ- 100
Battlewagon 1 BS, RPJ- 100
Battlewagon, RPJ, 1 BS- 100

Fast Attack:

3x rokkit buggies -105
3x rokkit buggies- 105
3x rokkit buggies- 105

Total:
2000ow
Just realized I could cut one Mega Nob, the one unit of rokkit buggies, and 1 loota and get another 20 shoota boyz for the third BW, then throw the Meganobz in a trukk that can keep out of los and then fly up and drop its payload.What do you think is better?

The Megaboss is still going with the Manz?

I would like to see Deffrollas on those BW's. Not sure if you need 9 buggies. I would alos prefer 10 lootas per squad. even if you have to only take 2 squads. They will be better for you IMHO.

Seems pretty good.

Yeah the warboss is, I really think they need the leadership. They are still good with two or one guy left and they are susceptible to running away without his leadership.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I woudl switch Jets for buggies. I don't see the jets being worth ther points. I have tried them in 2 games and have done nothing for me, even during "Waaagh!" turn.

I understand they are nice for Skyfire. I just don't see any of the flliers being worth in other then the Stormraven, and you can hurt that. Wait till that goes to hover mood to drop off whatever is in it and assault.

Ravens aren't always going to carry cargo, in fact more often than not now they will be simple gunboats. Without the Dakka Jets he can't kill them. As for other flyers not being worth it, you are on your own there, because the rest of the world seems to disagree, and rightfully so. The fact that they are nigh unkillable without the proper anti-air support makes them instantly attractive. Since most of them are anti-troop ships (Storm Talon is a good example) this means Orks in particular can't afford to chance not being able to deal with them.

So I'd put back in the Dakka Jets. It sucks that balsak's haven't worked for him, but you've already expressed a love for them and their abilities OP, and topped with their necessity to compete in all comers, I think that makes it a no-brainer.

Josh, I think you should take the three lists you have built here and play them all.
Then com back and tell us what you have discovered.
Honestly, I think all three look like a lot of fun to play, and are all three pretty hard lists.
You're going to have people on both sides, but you are the one playing the list.
Also, I love all three of them, though, for the short time, I'd probably take the fliers simply because everyone is going to be fielding them and having two or three on your own list is going to be your best bet for knocking them out of the air.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, leave that Warboss with the MANz, they seriously need the leadership. Any player worth his salt is going to try and ram you off the board.

It seems like you are trying to make cheaper less effective units by leaving some options out so that you get mnore untis. While this can work I think you will experience games where you will curse not having added things to units like powerklaws or deffrollas.

Well so far I have to say that the Dakkajets have been pretty worthwhile in the 5 games I have played with them to this point, and are better than most if not all other fast attack options available to the Orks so far. The only downside is them always starting in reserve as twice they did not come onto the board until turn 4.

In those two instances however, they managed to shoot opponents squads off of objectives both times, once with the waaaagh and once without.

I would not count on Ork Rokkits to take down very much in the way of vehicles unless you can get on the sides and flanks and even then it will take some doing. In my opinion massed Twin-linked Supa Shootas at ballistic skill 3 will do more for killing light armor than a couple of Rokkits will accomplish.

I like the larger units of Lootas personally and try and run them with at least 7-10 in each unit. 15 is fun, but probably overkill in most cases. With the range they have, Lootas are also okay at taking down the new flyers if you have enough of them. Orks do not care that much about needing 6s to hit and you start rolling 21-24 dice you will get the hits and glances and pens and will to a degree dictate how your foe moves his flyers on the table.

I generally never run a Boyz mob without a Nob with a PK as you need that punch to deal with some things and they can kill many charachters in challenges now which is nice.

Shoota boyz are a good choice over the Slugga Boyz these days but I try and give them one or two Big Shootas if points allow.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I woudl switch Jets for buggies. I don't see the jets being worth ther points. I have tried them in 2 games and have done nothing for me, even during "Waaagh!" turn.

I understand they are nice for Skyfire. I just don't see any of the flliers being worth in other then the Stormraven, and you can hurt that. Wait till that goes to hover mood to drop off whatever is in it and assault.

Ravens aren't always going to carry cargo, in fact more often than not now they will be simple gunboats. Without the Dakka Jets he can't kill them. As for other flyers not being worth it, you are on your own there, because the rest of the world seems to disagree, and rightfully so. The fact that they are nigh unkillable without the proper anti-air support makes them instantly attractive. Since most of them are anti-troop ships (Storm Talon is a good example) this means Orks in particular can't afford to chance not being able to deal with them.

So I'd put back in the Dakka Jets. It sucks that balsak's haven't worked for him, but you've already expressed a love for them and their abilities OP, and topped with their necessity to compete in all comers, I think that makes it a no-brainer.

Lootas should be able to handle any kind of air craft in the game really. I have seen the necron jet used, and the player didn't like it. The ork jet was meh. I haven't seen the space marine one used yet as not to many people play marines. Ravens always carry cargo where I play. If he is so worried about them then why not take a agies line with the quad guns and save points. The lootas behind will get a 4+ cover as well. To just take the planes for skyfire seems a bit much to me. Again this is all from personal experience. I will try to proxy the space marine flier to see its effectiveness but I am not holding my breath. I would rather take speeders for cheaper with the same number of shots. And still get a 5+ cover. Yeah they do get hit more but o-well.

Does anyone know if you can put burna boyz or tankbustas in a trukk?
Thanks

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I woudl switch Jets for buggies. I don't see the jets being worth ther points. I have tried them in 2 games and have done nothing for me, even during "Waaagh!" turn.

I understand they are nice for Skyfire. I just don't see any of the flliers being worth in other then the Stormraven, and you can hurt that. Wait till that goes to hover mood to drop off whatever is in it and assault.

Ravens aren't always going to carry cargo, in fact more often than not now they will be simple gunboats. Without the Dakka Jets he can't kill them. As for other flyers not being worth it, you are on your own there, because the rest of the world seems to disagree, and rightfully so. The fact that they are nigh unkillable without the proper anti-air support makes them instantly attractive. Since most of them are anti-troop ships (Storm Talon is a good example) this means Orks in particular can't afford to chance not being able to deal with them.

So I'd put back in the Dakka Jets. It sucks that balsak's haven't worked for him, but you've already expressed a love for them and their abilities OP, and topped with their necessity to compete in all comers, I think that makes it a no-brainer.

Lootas should be able to handle any kind of air craft in the game really. I have seen the necron jet used, and the player didn't like it. The ork jet was meh. I haven't seen the space marine one used yet as not to many people play marines. Ravens always carry cargo where I play. If he is so worried about them then why not take a agies line with the quad guns and save points. The lootas behind will get a 4+ cover as well. To just take the planes for skyfire seems a bit much to me. Again this is all from personal experience. I will try to proxy the space marine flier to see its effectiveness but I am not holding my breath. I would rather take speeders for cheaper with the same number of shots. And still get a 5+ cover. Yeah they do get hit more but o-well.

You ahve to be silly to think one Aegis Defence Line (with a destroyable gun) is enough to take on multiple flyers. It seems to me based on how you posted that you are basing your opinion on the assumption of an opponent taking one flyer; this is not the issue, the issue is that people will use several flyers. And besides, one is enough when you have nothing to deal with it. Once of his Loota units gets 10 shots on average, which averages out at just over one 6 rolled. Then they have a roll to make, with a 33% chance of doing nothing to AV10, 50% chance of doing nothing to AV11, and 66% chance of doing nothing to AV12. As for the assertion that Land Speeders can outshoot a Stormtalon, that is incorrect, not to mention Stormtalon is much harder to kill and makes reserves more reliable.

It's the number one rule of list building; if you can't deal with something it will more than likely beat you. And if that somethings comes in multiples, then you are screwed.

This brings up an interesting thing I've noticed lately though, and it's how the reaction has gone from thinking flyers are broken to an underestimation of them. Most of them pump out a lot of firepower while being near indestructible if they choose to be. I'm not sure why all of a sudden people think rolling 6's to hit is easy, or that it comes down to cold kills alone.

I dig the first list, it's cool. Dakkajets are a load of fun.

I usually play MANZ only in Apocalypse, but I may give them a try; they should be better with the changes.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I woudl switch Jets for buggies. I don't see the jets being worth ther points. I have tried them in 2 games and have done nothing for me, even during "Waaagh!" turn.

I understand they are nice for Skyfire. I just don't see any of the flliers being worth in other then the Stormraven, and you can hurt that. Wait till that goes to hover mood to drop off whatever is in it and assault.

Ravens aren't always going to carry cargo, in fact more often than not now they will be simple gunboats. Without the Dakka Jets he can't kill them. As for other flyers not being worth it, you are on your own there, because the rest of the world seems to disagree, and rightfully so. The fact that they are nigh unkillable without the proper anti-air support makes them instantly attractive. Since most of them are anti-troop ships (Storm Talon is a good example) this means Orks in particular can't afford to chance not being able to deal with them.

So I'd put back in the Dakka Jets. It sucks that balsak's haven't worked for him, but you've already expressed a love for them and their abilities OP, and topped with their necessity to compete in all comers, I think that makes it a no-brainer.

Lootas should be able to handle any kind of air craft in the game really. I have seen the necron jet used, and the player didn't like it. The ork jet was meh. I haven't seen the space marine one used yet as not to many people play marines. Ravens always carry cargo where I play. If he is so worried about them then why not take a agies line with the quad guns and save points. The lootas behind will get a 4+ cover as well. To just take the planes for skyfire seems a bit much to me. Again this is all from personal experience. I will try to proxy the space marine flier to see its effectiveness but I am not holding my breath. I would rather take speeders for cheaper with the same number of shots. And still get a 5+ cover. Yeah they do get hit more but o-well.

You ahve to be silly to think one Aegis Defence Line (with a destroyable gun) is enough to take on multiple flyers. It seems to me based on how you posted that you are basing your opinion on the assumption of an opponent taking one flyer; this is not the issue, the issue is that people will use several flyers. And besides, one is enough when you have nothing to deal with it. Once of his Loota units gets 10 shots on average, which averages out at just over one 6 rolled. Then they have a roll to make, with a 33% chance of doing nothing to AV10, 50% chance of doing nothing to AV11, and 66% chance of doing nothing to AV12. As for the assertion that Land Speeders can outshoot a Stormtalon, that is incorrect, not to mention Stormtalon is much harder to kill and makes reserves more reliable.

It's the number one rule of list building; if you can't deal with something it will more than likely beat you. And if that somethings comes in multiples, then you are screwed.

This brings up an interesting thing I've noticed lately though, and it's how the reaction has gone from thinking flyers are broken to an underestimation of them. Most of them pump out a lot of firepower while being near indestructible if they choose to be. I'm not sure why all of a sudden people think rolling 6's to hit is easy, or that it comes down to cold kills alone.

Multiple fliers? I see one for some support, but multiple. I don't see that. Its new and that is why they are being used. Good rules I don't think so. The one thing they have going for them is the fact they are hard to hit. I used the talon today. I will admit I like it a bit more then the Ork fliers, but still not very impressed as its so many points. It is very hard to use as you only have so much you can do with movement. Not to mention you have to start in reserves. And that is one of my big problems, not coming out when I need them. Turn 3 today for the Talon. Not a very good thing for it or any flier.

As for the speeders I did not say out shoot. I said shoot as many shots. 3 speeders for same price will have more shots then a Talon.

I don't care about math hammer at all. I don't believe in it nor do I follow it. You could tell me my lootas will never hit. But when it is time to roll they do better then you would think. Thats part of the game, chance. But as we also play in different areas with different players. We both have different opinions. But all I can say is I am not impressed nor are any of the players around here. When you can find so many better options for the points that are spent for the fliers.

I just picked up 2 dakkajet boxes. I'm somewhat of a gloomy gus, picking right up on the negative about things, so I was pretty bummed about it being so flimsy. It's also been a while since I played the game so I immediately was worried about not having good anti-vehicle translating to fliers. Here is the thing though, yeah our lootas need 6s to hit enemy fliers, but come on, we're orks, we need 6s to hit the ground with a bucket of water so it isn't too different from what we are used to/the lootas were built to get around. Granted str 7 isn't ideal but it'll do. As to the flyer itself, everyone at the store I'm at is having success with all of theirs, and think highly of the dakkajet, flying ace doesn't hurt either. 10-12 lootas has always worked really well for me. How are the jets treating everyone?

It's a shame you can't put jets or bommers in a squadron like valkeries :(

balsak, if yer meta is light on competitive stuff then that is fine for ye, but you can't make the assumption that that is the case everywhere. It boggles my mind that anyone can not see flyers as that great, but whatever, if you don't play competitively maybe the fact you don't look for these things normally means you don't see it. I know plenty of people who are convinced the worst units in the game are awesome despite the fact that they never work for them. Such seems to be the ropes of casual gaming often enough.

Anyway the point I'm making is that whatever the deal over there where you are, flyers are good, even if ye don't like them. Mathhammer is still statistics and averages so ignoring it as if it never happens is again not good advice to give, because even in a game of chance, things generally even out over time; that is the purpose. Pay attention over your next few games and you might notice. Unless the OP plays strictly casual as you do then he is likely to run into multiple flyers as they are the power combos of 6th, and so he needs to be prepared.

It's not like a DakkaJet is anything to be laughed at anyway; for 130pts you can hit everything at BS3 and with 9 S6 shots, 18 if you Waaaggh!