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I was footling about in the rulebook earlier and was perusing the allies rules. Now if you have allies of convenience or desperate allies, does the mandatory troop choice count as a scoring unit?

My reading of the rules implies that they are, but I was wondering if this had been strained properly through the great sieve of Dakka.

Here is my logic:
- Scoring units are troops choices from the force org chart
- The allied detachment is part of the force org chart
- therefore the mandatory allied troops unit scores

However the whole "enemy unit that you're not allowed to shoot" rule for allies of convenience and desperate allies implies that the benefits from using such allies should be limited.

Desperate allied troop choices are not scoring or denying. it says so in the description of desperate allies.

Flinty wrote:I was footling about in the rulebook earlier and was perusing the allies rules. Now if you have allies of convenience or desperate allies, does the mandatory troop choice count as a scoring unit?

My reading of the rules implies that they are, but I was wondering if this had been strained properly through the great sieve of Dakka.

Here is my logic:
- Scoring units are troops choices from the force org chart
- The allied detachment is part of the force org chart
- therefore the mandatory allied troops unit scores

However the whole "enemy unit that you're not allowed to shoot" rule for allies of convenience and desperate allies implies that the benefits from using such allies should be limited.

Not got the BRB with me at the moment, but I believe it states that only Desperate Allies cannot be Scoring or Denial units?

Iranna.

Only desperate allies can't score, otherwise they score, says so in the section.

Agreed.

I'd say the fact they state that desperate allies are treated exactly like allies of convenience but make a point of saying they're non-scoring, non-denial units would mean that allies of convenience "are" scoring/denial units.

What if you have grey knights as your allies and use the grand strategy? It says they are scoring units as if they are troops. Would they be scoring then?

Yes, because Grand Strategy would override the normal restriction. Although it would burn up Grand Strategy.

Except you can only use abilities like Grand Strategy on Battle Brothers. GK have no battle brothers.

No, but they can use it on their own units to turn them into Scoring units where they otherwise would not.

Dohoho! A grandmaster and 10 troop terminators for my orks/DE and then they score, desperate allies be damned!

D'oh... Serves me right for not reading down through Desparate Allies again

Thanks for finding the reference

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Except you can only use abilities like Grand Strategy on Battle Brothers. GK have no battle brothers.

Mind citing the exact rule? This has come up before and nothing in the list on page 112 rules out non -psychic abilities. Does Grand Strategy specifically require it to be a friendly unit or does it say somethong to the effect of "pick a unit in your army"?

streamdragon wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Except you can only use abilities like Grand Strategy on Battle Brothers. GK have no battle brothers.

Mind citing the exact rule? This has come up before and nothing in the list on page 112 rules out non -psychic abilities. Does Grand Strategy specifically require it to be a friendly unit or does it say somethong to the effect of "pick a unit in your army"?

That's only three items on the list and they state "for example" which means that is not the limit of restrictions.

The fact that they are treated as enemy units should be your answer. Also, if you look at battle brothers they have almost the same wording (though allowing instead of disallowing) there about psychic powers, abilities, and so on.

The list is only 3 examples I agree, but the bolded line on page 112 directly under "Allies of Convenience" describes exactly how they function in your army.

Even if "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as ememy units..." they are still in your army and as such any rule that functions for units in "your army"not should be applicable unless specifically disallowed (such as those in the list, for instance).

Obviously any rule which specified it only worked on 'friendly units' would not work on Allies of Convenience, but if the rule simply states "any unit in your army"not then 'friendly' or not, "any" unit is a viable target.

streamdragon wrote:
The list is only 3 examples I agree, but the bolded line on page 112 directly under "Allies of Convenience" describes exactly how they function in your army.

Even if "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as ememy units..." they are still in your army and as such any rule that functions for units in "your army"not should be applicable unless specifically disallowed (such as those in the list, for instance).

Obviously any rule which specified it only worked on 'friendly units' would not work on Allies of Convenience, but if the rule simply states "any unit in your army"not then 'friendly' or not, "any" unit is a viable target.

See, you're getting into the territory of the "What is 'Your Army'?" debate. And the rule you quoted states that "units IN your army treat allies of convenience as enemy units". Not to bring up this debate in this thread, but there's evidence in FAQ's and in the rulebook that lead to the conclusion that "Your Army" is only your primary detachment.