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Interpretations?

Depends on what's shooting at it. Something tall like a Dreadknight, wraithlord, anything on a flying base of any type, probably not. something small like a bog standard foot infantry model, sure why not. i'm not about to argue the area of a tervigon and a termagaunt in the middle of a fight. Just clarify it before the fight with the opponent so you don't have to argue about it when it comes up later.

If they actually cover 25% of the creature from the firers perspective (Or firing through gaps in a unit), then yes. they can get a cover save. (Just being 25% as tall does not matter if the gaunts are only covering 10% of the model).

It would depend on where the unit shooting at them is in relation to the models in question.

Use TLOS.
Depending on the gaunts unit formation shooters position and who knows what else the answer could go either way.

I generally don't claim it for termigaunts, but I do for hormagants.

As I use a Forge World Heriodule for my tervagon, it kind of puts things in perspective. Like how can you miss it?

That said, if there is a horde of termys in front, you should get at least a 5+ cover from short range weapons. A missile launcher though would have a pretty clear shot from 36 to 48 inches.


Of course I request D6 pieces of cover during setup. Its that flora growth thingy the nids cause......

Tyranoforming FTW.

If you are shooting 'through' the termagant brood at the Tervigon, its a 5+ cover save. Covering 25% doesnt matter as there was no exception to the shooting through another squad rule made for Monstrous creatures. It is now possible to screen your big bugs with little bugs.

Th0rh4mm3r wrote:If you are shooting 'through' the termagant brood at the Tervigon, its a 5+ cover save. Covering 25% doesnt matter as there was no exception to the shooting through another squad rule made for Monstrous creatures. It is now possible to screen your big bugs with little bugs.

And /thread.

This is really what's important. Everyone else nailed it about it depending on TLOS.

Actually it could be argued that you still need 25% coverage to get cover from units, as per rulebook:
P18, Intervening models, first paragraph:
"...it receives 5+cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain." and you need 25% coverage to get cover save behind terrain. What do you say?

Th0rh4mm3r wrote:
If you are shooting 'through' the termagant brood at the Tervigon, its a 5+ cover save. Covering 25% doesnt matter as there was no exception to the shooting through another squad rule made for Monstrous creatures. It is now possible to screen your big bugs with little bugs.

I firmly believe this is incorrect.

How do you determine when the shot goes "through" the space in between the gaunts? If all the parties (firer, gaunts, and tervigon) are on the ground level, the shot will go over the gaunts, not through them, and there will be no cover save. The 25% rule is necessary to make the "between-style" cover saves work. If you don't factor in the 25% then almost every shot can go over the intervening unit; the firer just draws LoS to the very top of the Tervigon, and claims that it does not need to pass between models. If you use the 25% rule then it will be clear when the shot is going completely over the intervening unit, and when it is actually passing between models.

I'm stunned by how many people seem to be getting this rule wrong, and are evidently incapable of perceiving the obvious conflict between "through" and "over".

Then shake off the Stun and explain it referencing to rules, not Opinions. With rulebook pp preferably.

I read the intervening model rule as any intervening model confers the 5+ cover save, no 25% is required.

If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit (models not from the firer's unit, or from the target unit), it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain. Similarly, if a model fires through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer. Note that this does not apply if the shots go over the unit rather than through it.

You have to trace LOS, and if you are ABOVE a unit and can see the full unit without any intervening models, no cover save. But if while looking at the unit, there are any units in between, the cover save applies.

No where does it talk about a percentage, and only indicates you take a cover save LIKE a terrain cover save. It clearly defines what constitutes you claiming the save, which is just intervening models. Hell, technically I think ripper swarms would give a tervigon a 5+ cover save.

That is how I read it as well:


No cover-save from intervening unit:



Still no cover-save from intervening unit;



Cover-save from intervening unit is now applicable;


That much I believe is certain.

What CAN be discussed is how much and in what way the intervening unit provides the cover-save.
Is it sort of a silhouette with some of the spaces between models filled out, or a square rectangle as high as the tallest model, or something else?

I believe Yakface did a "How Do You Play It"-thread on this subject in 5th.

The rules say that intervening models provide a save

"in the same way as if it were behind terrain"

Well, what 'way' is that? How does terrain provide a cover save? It provides a cover save if it obscures 25% or more of the target model...that is the 'way' that it works....hence that is the 'same way' that intervening models work.

The problem isn't as much how the models themselves provide the cover-save, but what the shape of the intervening space between the models is.

There are two different issues here.

One is if intervening models require 25% obscurement, or just 1% obscurement.

Since they are the "same" as terrain, it requires 25% obsurement.

The other is what is meant by 'through'. It means that the space between the models counts for obscuring the target model also; although the space 'above' the intevening models would not count towards obscurement.

coredump wrote:The rules say that intervening models provide a save

"in the same way as if it were behind terrain"

Well, what 'way' is that? How does terrain provide a cover save? It provides a cover save if it obscures 25% or more of the target model...that is the 'way' that it works....hence that is the 'same way' that intervening models work.

The first part of the rule clearly defines what gives them a cover save, being obscured:

"If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by model's from a third unit..."
Clearly defines how you gain this cover save, being partially obscured.

"it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain"
all it really says here is that you treat this in the same was a terrain cover save, not that you treat your units AS terrain for los and obscurement purposes. Like many GW rules, it's worded pretty poorly, but the fact that they put the amount of the cover save in this part leads me to believe we are out of the 'what is in cover' part of the rule, and into the 'what does that mean' part of the rule. Maybe they wanted to make sure that people didn't claim that cover saves from intervening units were effected by AP or some other such nonsense (and I'm pretty sure we would see that thread here if it was worded differently). To me, it's just saying that you consider any partially obscured model as a 5+ cover save.

coredump wrote:There are two different issues here.

One is if intervening models require 25% obscurement, or just 1% obscurement.

Since they are the "same" as terrain, it requires 25% obsurement.

The other is what is meant by 'through'. It means that the space between the models counts for obscuring the target model also; although the space 'above' the intevening models would not count towards obscurement.

Your last part here is what I think really solidifies my view on this rule. With pure LOS, if you could see directly through the gaps in the intervening units, then there would be no obscurement at all. This is saying that the unit acts as a fence 'o cover save in front of whatever is behind it.

Based on the size of the model, and the size of gaunts, you would need to place gaunts on top of a barricade and have the tervigon behind said barricade to get 25% for a 5+.

So no, unless you're playing with someone who has a model that is prone, no save.