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So after buying some bits from eBay an getting these guys together, I want to field them in my army! The only problem is that in the grand scheme of my army, Deathmarks are pretty meh. I thought it would be fun to give them some different rules to make them better and scarier for the enemy.

Deathmarks - 22 points per model

BS5•WS4•S4•T4•W1•A1•I2•Ld10•Sv3+

Syanaptic Disintegrator
Range 36"•SX•AP4•Sniper

Hunters from Hyperspace stays normal

Sub-dimensional Transporter - 20 points

Instead of moving like normal in the movement phase, a Deathmark unit with the Sub-dimensional Transporter may instead be removed from the table and redeploy using the rules for deep striking. This does not allow them to mark additional units with the Hunters from Hyperspace special rule. If your army contains more than one unit of Deathmarks, only one may purchase this piece of wargear.

So what do you think? Overpowered? Underpowered? All cc is welcome

Remember to add "Rapidfire" to the weapon type.

Considering they're still just snipers, and it doesn't really matter if they wound on 2's or not, I'd play against this with no problems.

I like this. One of the things about the necron codex I don't really like about the new Necron codex is the lack of deviations from WS and BS4. I mean, I know they're robots, but the higher-ups are better than that, especially since they don't have muscle fatigue or anything like that.

I didn't want the guns to have rapid fire. And I totally agree with the above statement.

Hm, if not rapidfire, then what? Assault 1? Heavy 1? Heavy 1 makes them fairly useless, while Assault 1 makes them worse than they are now - for more points.

I suppose they could be rapid fire, I just thought it would be cool if they could hang back and snipe off people.

6th edition rules allow 1 shot at full range regardless of move or not, or 2 shots within 12". It's like heavy 1, but you can move, and get more shots within 12"

Deathmarks are pretty brutal death stars.
10 death marks, 2 necron lord (scythe, 2+/3++) and the veil tek comes in just under 500 points.

You've got to shoot through 2+/3++ (who get back up) to hurt the T4 3+ shooters. A pair of mindshackles and scythes make them dangerous in hand to hand, and the shooting output is impressive.

How are you putting 2 lords and a veil? Or do you mean 2 overlords? An Overlord can't deepstrike with the Deathmarks, while only 1 model from each court (max 2 under 2K points) can join a unit.

No one's disputing their effectiveness - what's been proposed is a slight alteration of their role and utility.

Now, why are you considering deathmarks as meh? Do they not work?

They're 20-point snipers with less range... but rapidfire, deepstrike, and 2+ wound on a single unit. So, while the Deathmarks are some of the best snipers in the game because of the double-shots and 2+, they still suffer once their drop-and-pop is over. It'd be like having a unit that can assault on turn 1, and deal significant damage, but then can't do much else for the rest of the game because it can only move 2".

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Now, why are you considering deathmarks as meh? Do they not work?

Well, math hammer tells us they'll kill 3-4 MEQs in a marked unit and after that, 2 MEQs from a non marked unit. I don't think they are very competitive beyond the drop and pop tactic they already have. I would rather spend the 155 pts of 5+a Harbinger of Despair on scoring units or better firepower.

To reiterate; the problem is the Sniper Rule and the weapon profile, not the model statline. GW overvalues Snipers for some odd reason.

Great Deceiver wrote:
Well, math hammer tells us they'll kill 3-4 MEQs in a marked unit

20 sniper shots that wound on a 2 kill 5 Marines. Almost 4 if they are not marked. You ignored Rending.

Killing 5 marines in one phase with a unit that is roughly equal in cost to a Tactical squad is generally considered quite good.

20. 13.3r hit. 6.6r wounds total. 2.2r of those will be rends. 4.4r wounds to save, 1.48(148)r unsaved, leading to 3.7something unsaved wounds if your deepstrike scatter was bad, or almost SIX on a 2+ if you manage to land near where you wanna be.

Killing half a Tac squad with just over a full Tac Squad's worth of elites (not to mention that this is the maxed out squad of elites - it can't get any better without adding other units to it!) ONCE in a game... HM I'LL PASS

Compare to other maxed elites slots, or even just 200 points of assault termies - if that only killed 5 MEQ on the turn they got to shine, they wouldn't be taken, either.

To compare entirely, a platoon command and 3 guard squads using only flashlights costs 10 points less, is not a maxed squad, and inflicts the same number of unsaved wounds with FRF SRF as the deathmarks do. They're also scoring, have grenades, more survivable, and have a buttload of options that can make them EVEN MORE POINT-COST EFFICIENT.

But isn't that the point of deathmarks to be a drop-and-pop unit? Comparing them against a platoon of IG doesn't work. They don't work the same way.

The thing is that they are expensive for a D&P (you can get 5 termies for their cost), and do less than similar units (Sang Guard are much scarier for instance).

They come at the cost of a completely maxed elites slot, something that can be upwards of 600 points in other codecies. They come at the cost of Triarch Stalkers, the Necrons' Force Multiplier. They come at the cost of needing a Cryptek with Veil to truly be "scary", another 80 points.

And after all this, they have nothing to stop them from scattering into impass and being useless for another turn, or worse, being placed by your opponent >and being useless for the entire game.

To recap: It's a drop and pop unit that has no drop protection, relies on 6's to pop, and has a 12" kill-range. Once.

Marbo is 65 points and often more effective.

I would like to point a couple of things out:

DestroTeks can do this job much better. A full court of 5 + a eat-all-wounds CC Lord will lay down enough firepower to threaten any unit in the game. Albeit, you only get 5 shots to start with, but those shots have precision & can ID most non-EW things, and will wound the rest on 2+. Comes in at 250, so much cheaper than the scariest drop+pop Deathmark setup.

Also, under 6th ed, Rapid Fire is 1/2 range, so with 36" range as the OP suggested, it would be in 18", which can make the Scatter hurt a little less.

Just my two cents

chrisrawr wrote:The thing is that they are expensive for a D&P (you can get 5 termies for their cost), and do less than similar units (Sang Guard are much scarier for instance).

They come at the cost of a completely maxed elites slot, something that can be upwards of 600 points in other codecies. They come at the cost of Triarch Stalkers, the Necrons' Force Multiplier. They come at the cost of needing a Cryptek with Veil to truly be "scary", another 80 points.

And after all this, they have nothing to stop them from scattering into impass and being useless for another turn, or worse, being placed by your opponent >and being useless for the entire game.

To recap: It's a drop and pop unit that has no drop protection, relies on 6's to pop, and has a 12" kill-range. Once.

Marbo is 65 points and often more effective.

But do Necrons have Sanguinary Guard or Sgt Marbo? Nope...

For the Necrons, they have a function and do it moderately well. And how does the sniper rule screw deathmarks up? They not only get rending, but on the 6 they also can select their target.

Which as i said, can be done cheaper with some guarenteed AP & ID chances by DestroTeks

>They come at the cost of the Triarch Stalker

They're an Elites Slot in an Army where the Elites Slot is necessarily a Triarch Stalker, if anything, because of how poorly Deathmarks make up points. Those points can be going into the Court, the Warriors, or the FA/HS slots, all of which provide much more vital and powerful roles for any Necrons Army.


>Can select their target: Not that great for a deepstriking Unit that can select target by striking where they want to be.

>Why does the Sniper Rule screw Deathmarks up?: It doesn't. GW has simply overvalued it as a rule, and overvalued sniper-type units in general. My proposal for Sniper-Type units has always been and will always be: Give them better weapons, make them more expensive. Right now they're at a point where "being cheaper" gives them too many bodies, but "we can't make them more expensive because they're practically useless."

The sniper units, as they are in game, are broken. Not because they're good, but because they do not represent snipers, sniper teams, or sniper weapons well at all. Teams of two to five, with high BS and weapons that are great at anti infantry but relatively poor at vehicle killing should be how it's done, not units of ten dudes with mediocre weapons. Snipers in general need to be completely changed before snipers get useful.

I disagree about antitank utility being less; the right weapon for the right job. The Vindicare is the best depiction of a sniper we have; BS5 W1 48" S4 AP4 heavy 1, Sniper, Antipersonnel or Anti-materiel, other special rules

Sniper: Rending, Pinning, Precision Shot

Antipersonnel: Fleshbane, Shred

Anti-material: Armourbane

50 points per model, +1 Spotter for 15 points. Each Sniper (and his Spotter) are Individual units when deployed, spotter allows to ignore nightfight OR reroll to-hit on a 5+ OR Rend on 5+

While snipers do use anti-material rifles, their main use has always been anti-personnel. I don't exactly know how an armor penetrating round would work against... anything really. I mean, Anti-material rifles are made for disabling vehicles, not blowing them up; snipers target fuel lines/tanks, key personnel (pilots/drivers), and the occasional shot through a steel door.

I don't even know how a Turbo-Penetrator round would even begin to work. Really? 4D6 for pen? What space magic is being used that doesn't shear the Vindicare's arm off when he fires the round? Does it have a miniature meltagun in the bullet?

Anysniper, Sniper rifles have never been great at vehicle killing. There have been big freakin' "rifles" dedicated to tank hunting, but those were about ten feet long and weighed about 80 pounds.

Also, in a sensible military, no sniper goes out alone, and though the Vindicare is an assassin, Snipers perform the exact same function. All snipers. The Vindicare is a glorified Scout with a swanky rifle and sweet ammunition.

The right weapon for the right job: it's is perfectly ok to have a weapon dedicated to killing infantry (sniper rifles) and a weapon dedicated to killing tanks (Lascannon/Missile Launcher). There is a very good reason why we use A-10 Warthogs equipped with a GAU-8 Avenger 30mm Gatling Cannon and some missiles to take out tanks instead of some dude on a hill with a rifle.

But snipers can shoot through vision slits and other sensitive areas, just like how a grenade can damage a tank.

BTW sniper rule means you allocate on 6's to hit.

Yeah... No modern tank has vision slits. Grenades damage a tank by being thrown into weak areas, they don't blow it sky-high. Fixed charges (like Krak or Melta bombs would be) require proper placement. If they are in the wrong place, they do far less damage than they could, perhaps only immobilizing the vehicle instead of exploding through the hull.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Space Marine Sniper Team - 125 points

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WS:4 BS:7 S:4 T:4 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:10 Sv:3+
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOC: Elites
Composition: 1 Sniper and 1 Spotter
Wargear:
Power Armor (Silenced, of course)
Camo Cloaks
Heavy Sniper Rifle (Sniper) - Bigger and better versions of the Sniper rifles issued to the Imperial Guard or Scouts, these weapons are given solely to dedicated Sniper units. It uses the following profile: R:36" SX AP4, Heavy 1, Sniper, Rending
Monocular (Spotter): This allows the Spotter to identify targets and their weak points, and when coupled with their attention to detail they are able to find weak points on a target in a matter of seconds. This allows the Heavy Sniper Rifle to wound on a 3+ and Rend on a 5+ and grants the team the Night Vision special rule.
Special Ammunition - Much like the Sternguard Veterans, Sniper teams have access to specialized ammunition that can greatly enhance their killing ability. The various ammunition types use the following shooting profiles. Only one may be used per shooting phase, and must be declared at the start of the shooting phase.
Dragonfire Bolts - R:36" SX AP4, Heavy 1 Sniper, Rending, Ignores Cover
Hellfire Rounds: Wounds on a 2+
Kraken Bolts: R:42" SX AP3, Heavy 1 Sniper, Rending
Vengrance Rounds: R:30" SX AP2, Heavy 1, Sniper, Rending

Special Rules:
Sniper Team - A sniper team requires two individuals to function correctly. If one of them dies, the other, while still fully competent, will not be as effective as they were. If the Sniper Team loses a wound, the BS drops to BS5 and the Monocular no longer affects wounding or Rending.
Combat tactics
And They Shall Know No Fear


Version B-----------------------
R:36" S4 AP6, Heavy 1, Sniper, Rending
Instead of wounding on a flat D6 roll, the strength of the weapon is determined by the placement of the shot, or the to hit roll. Take the required roll and subtract if from the actual number rolled, then add that number to the S and AP of the weapon, up to S8 AP2. If a Sniper required a 2+ to hit, then rolls a 4, he adds 2 to the S and AP of the weapon, making it now S6 AP when rolling to wound.

I'm assuming it's a dualbase like the ehavy weapons team. Why does it get S/T4? BS7 is beyond normal human prowess, and also kind of unnecessary.

The problem with making a model like this cost - and do - so much is that when it dies, you're left feeling a little bummed. If it doesn't, it either doesn't make up its points, or goes overboard on the OP end.

Version B is really good for dedicated sniper units, actually. Roll a 6, chance to get good stuff!

Also, in regard to the preamble: The Armourbane rule and the Turbopen both represent the Sniper's ability to hit a weak spot in such a way as you described - remember that in 40K, often the engine is exposed and the walls unangled. We have AM rifles that can go through an angled tankwall and bounce around inside, shattering and killing the crew. Unangled tankwalls shouldn't be much of a problem.

chrisrawr wrote:6th edition rules allow 1 shot at full range regardless of move or not, or 2 shots within 12". It's like heavy 1, but you can move, and get more shots within 12"

No, just to clarify, "rapid fire" is not 1 shot at full or 2 at 12". It is 1 shot at full or 2 at HALF distance. So with those weapons being rapid fire they'd have a longer range than tau's rapid fire weapons. So either this version should be assault or the range should be reduced.

No, its a sniper. you dont get short range snipers outside of 40k logic.