Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Seven people, including a gunman, were killed in a shooting at a Sikh temple near Milwaukee Sunday in what police say is being treated as an act of domestic terrorism.
Authorities including the FBI, the ATF, the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department and Cudahy police are now searching a house in Cudahy, Wis., believed to be linked to the suspect, WITI's Brandon Cruz reports.
Prior to starting the search at the 3700 block of Holmes Ave., police asked two blocks of residents to leave the area or remain indoors. FBI agents are there with an armored truck, a trailer and other vehicles. Other law enforcement officers are there too, along with a police dog.
Police were called Sunday morning to respond to the shooting at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in the suburb of Oak Creek, when witnesses said several dozen people were gathering for a service.
Sunny Singh, 21, of Milwaukee, said a friend pulled into the temple's parking lot, heard shots and saw two people fall down. The friend then saw the shooter reload his weapons and head to the temple's entrance, Singh said.
Oak Creek Police Chief John Edwards said the shooting suspect ambushed and opened fire on an 20-year veteran officer who was attending to a victim at the scene. Another officer then shot and killed the suspect.
Greenfield Police Chief Bradley Wentlandt said the officer who was ambushed was shot multiple times and is being treated in surgery, but is expected to recover.
Four people were found dead inside the temple, Wentlandt said, while three, including the suspected shooter, were found dead outside. Tactical units went through the temple and authorities do not believe a second shooter was involved, Wentlandt said. All people have been cleared out of the temple.
At a news conference late Sunday afternoon, Edwards released no information about the suspect, including his identity or a possible motive.
Edwards said the FBI will lead the investigation because the shootings are being treated as an act of domestic terrorism.
Three other shooting victims, all men, were taken in critical condition to Froederdt Hospital in Milwaukee, the main trauma center for the area, Chief Medical Officer Lee Biblo said. He added that they were all being treated for bullet wounds: one to the chest, one to the extremities and the face and one to the neck.
Police released few details about other victims, but family members talked about discussions with some of those inside.
Sukhwindar Nagra, of Racine, said he called his brother-in-law's phone and a priest at the temple answered and told him that his brother-in-law had been shot, along with three priests.
Gurpreet Kaur, 24, of Oak Creek, said her mother and a group of about 14 other women were preparing a meal in the temple kitchen when the gunman entered and started firing. Kaur said her mother felt two bullets fly by her as the group fled to the pantry. Her mother suffered what Kaur thought was shrapnel wound in her foot.
A White House official said President Obama was notified of the shooting and is continuing to receive updates.
"At this difficult time, the people of Oak Creek must know that the American people have them in our thoughts and prayers, and our hearts go out to the families and friends of those who were killed and wounded," Obama said in a statement.
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker also canceled a Monday event in Green Bay after hearing about the shooting.
"Our hearts go out to the victims and their families, as we all struggle to comprehend the evil that begets this terrible violence," he said in a statement. "At the same time, we are filled with gratitude for our first responders, who show bravery and selflessness as they put aside their own safety to protect our neighbors and friends."
County Alderman Dan Jakupczyk told Fox News that the people at the temple have been "good citizens."
“Since I’ve been alderman, for about three years, there has never been any trouble, or any problems,” he said.
One of the temple's committee members, Ven Boba Ri, told the Journal Sentinel that the shooting was very sad, and he has been fielding calls all morning from around the world, including India.
"Sikhism is such a peaceful religion. We have suffered for generations, in India and even here."
The NYPD also announced, out of caution, a heightened police presence at Sikh temples in New York City.
Sikhism is a monotheistic faith that was founded in South Asia more than 500 years ago. It has roughly 27 million followers worldwide. Observant Sikhs do not cut their hair; male followers often cover their heads with turbans -- which are considered sacred -- and refrain from shaving their beards. There are roughly 500,000 Sikhs in the U.S., according to estimates. The majority worldwide live in India.
Oak Creek is south of Milwaukee along Lake Michigan.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Fething ignorant rednecks can't tell the difference between foreigners. For the uninformed, Sikhs hate Muslims and have been harassed since 9/11 because idiots think that they are Muslim...
I want to hazard a guess. A "inspired" shooter motivated by the Colorado shooter
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
dogma wrote:I'm curious as to the motive. Sikhs are usually not targeted outside India.
You're not familiar with Sikhs being harassed post 9/11 because fools think they're Muslim because of their turbans and beards? It's not a widely discussed problem as there are only 500,000 of them in the US, but it is a serious issue and reflect very poorly on the US.
Well...there was a buddist monk killed up in Silver City by a hunter like five years ago. Not accidental shooting but killed
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Yea, im sad to hear about this myself, ive often thought of converting to the Sikh faith myself, it is a beautiful theology although i find it ironic that its considered "peaceful" given that its best described as a warrior faith.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Amaya wrote:
You're not familiar with Sikhs being harassed post 9/11 because fools think they're Muslim because of their turbans and beards? It's not a widely discussed problem as there are only 500,000 of them in the US, but it is a serious issue and reflect very poorly on the US.
I should have been more clear and added "...because they're Sikhs."
Most likely they were confused for Muslims, but you never know. It, honestly, depends largely on the ethnicity of the suspect.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 03:01:28
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
The first thing that crossed my mind was probably a white male or white males (there were reports that there may have been multiple shooters) and the motive being some glenn beck radical islam crap and mistaking the temple for a mosque. The FBI calling it an act of domestic terrorism is a step in the right direction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 03:12:26
dogma wrote:I'm curious as to the motive. Sikhs are usually not targeted outside India.
Where muslims AND Hindu both do it, and the Sikhs give back. Like the tiger.
I still remember the Golden Temple of Amritsar incident and the assassination of the Indian Prime Minister by her own bodyguards as a result.
The temple is a holy place for Sikhs. Her bodyguards were Sikhs.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
As a Sikh, I don't quite know how to respond to this in the most eloquent of fashions.
I'm horrified to see my people being targeted like this. It puts a sense of dread into me like you can't even imagine. Post 9/11 was some of the worst months of my lives based on the complete unbiased, and uninformed hate that was directed at anyone who was a brown male. I used to have long hair, I cut it shortly after. Not just because of post 9/11 hate, but it was definitely a huge contributing factor.
Another part of me is horrified not just because it was a shooting of Sikhs, but rather it was a shooting at all. Sure, Sikhs traditionally harbor no good faith towards Muslims (traditional, and ancient rivalries). But still, they are human beings. And as such I abhor unnecessary death.
It's so hard not to be racist right now, but so often the white male is so quick to call us stupid, to call us the idiot foreigner. But I swear, that if there is one single group that has showed me the most unjustified hate, it is white males. I know they are not all bad. But I was born and raised in Canada, served in the Canadian Army, and have done more for my country than half the people I know, yet I am always the "stupid paki". feth I'm frustrated now.
I don't know what to do. My family is off to temple right now, to pray for the dead. Victims and killer alike.
Let's hope for a day when all I and other minorities have to worry about is painting plastic soldiers around and going "pew pew" or whatever theirr hobbies may be.
Jo bole so nihaal, Sat sri akaal my friends.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:Yea, im sad to hear about this myself, ive often thought of converting to the Sikh faith myself, it is a beautiful theology although i find it ironic that its considered "peaceful" given that its best described as a warrior faith.
Yes, ours is a very martial religion. Martial mastery is considered a virtue, but violence is always the last option. It's akin to saying always to stand up for yourself, and for others. Just to us, standing up to tyranny means fighting it physically if we must. Don't worry about converting to Sikhi. Love God, any way that you can, and you're half way there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 04:24:10
bsohi wrote:As a Sikh, I don't quite know how to respond to this in the most eloquent of fashions.
Huh, I thought you were Hindu. Color judgment I guess, combined with probability (and this probably says something about why the killer did what he did). I've never met a Sikh, online or otherwise, so .
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Meh, Americans in general are amazingly ignorant of foreign cultures, especially India for some reason. I really pity Indians because most of these idiots assume that they're Arab. It's maddening.
dogma wrote:I'm curious as to the motive. Sikhs are usually not targeted outside India.
You're not familiar with Sikhs being harassed post 9/11 because fools think they're Muslim because of their turbans and beards? It's not a widely discussed problem as there are only 500,000 of them in the US, but it is a serious issue and reflect very poorly on the US.
Was it something like this?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 04:35:37
bsohi wrote:As a Sikh, I don't quite know how to respond to this in the most eloquent of fashions.
Huh, I thought you were Hindu. Color judgment I guess, combined with probability (and this probably says something about why the killer did what he did). I've never met a Sikh, online or otherwise, so .
Just off the tips of my thumbs in my gallery pictures? Very astute. I'm actually very light skinned for a Punjabi male. My mother is to blame, she's caucausian level white. And yeah, Indians are near impossible to tell the religion of. There's a nuance to it. Just a moustache, probably hindu. Just a beard, no moustache, probably muslim. Moustache and beard? probably Sikh. Easy peasy. Makes sense as Sikhism is a combination of Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, and Jain faiths with our own special sauce.
Also, a pleasure to meet you. As your first Sikh friend, you might as well fire away with any questions that you have. I'd be more than happy to answer.
Amaya wrote:Meh, Americans in general are amazingly ignorant of foreign cultures, especially India for some reason. I really pity Indians because most of these idiots assume that they're Arab. It's maddening.
Then you must be the change my friend. Until someone does, it won't.
It's nice to see you again Luna.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 04:42:04
I remember on 9/11 I was living in Providence RI and recall Sikhs being pulled off trains by authorities in a panic assuming that they were terrorists...
Does Americans really have that much of a hard time differentiating between Indians and Muslims? the look is different so is the accent -_-
You have made the same mistake there Luna. Indian and muslim is not exclusive. There are indian muslims, african muslims, middle eastern muslims. I'm indian. And I'm Sikh. My best friend is Indian, and he's Hindu.
Indian is a nationality, Sikh/Hindu/Muslim is a religion.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CT GAMER wrote:I remember on 9/11 I was living in Providence RI and recall Sikhs being pulled off trains by authorities in a panic assuming that they were terrorists...
Awkward...
I was only 14 years old. I don't remember the events of the attack so much. But I will always remember how I was treated immediately afterwards. I was the enemy, I was the bad guy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/06 04:46:27
bsohi wrote:
Also, a pleasure to meet you. As your first Sikh friend, you might as well fire away with any questions that you have. I'd be more than happy to answer.
I actually don't have any questions. I'm quite familiar with Sikhism in the sense of research*, I've just never met one. Thanks for the offer, though. I'm interested to see what questions you're asked, and how you'll answer them.
* My dad is a minister, and a very liberal one, we had many religious texts in my house growing up.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
bsohi wrote:As a Sikh, I don't quite know how to respond to this in the most eloquent of fashions.
I'm horrified to see my people being targeted like this. It puts a sense of dread into me like you can't even imagine. Post 9/11 was some of the worst months of my lives based on the complete unbiased, and uninformed hate that was directed at anyone who was a brown male. I used to have long hair, I cut it shortly after. Not just because of post 9/11 hate, but it was definitely a huge contributing factor.
Another part of me is horrified not just because it was a shooting of Sikhs, but rather it was a shooting at all. Sure, Sikhs traditionally harbor no good faith towards Muslims (traditional, and ancient rivalries). But still, they are human beings. And as such I abhor unnecessary death.
It's so hard not to be racist right now, but so often the white male is so quick to call us stupid, to call us the idiot foreigner. But I swear, that if there is one single group that has showed me the most unjustified hate, it is white males. I know they are not all bad. But I was born and raised in Canada, served in the Canadian Army, and have done more for my country than half the people I know, yet I am always the "stupid paki". feth I'm frustrated now.
I don't know what to do. My family is off to temple right now, to pray for the dead. Victims and killer alike.
Let's hope for a day when all I and other minorities have to worry about is painting plastic soldiers around and going "pew pew" or whatever theirr hobbies may be.
Jo bole so nihaal, Sat sri akaal my friends.
I went to the Golden Temple a few years back. One of the most beautiful places I've ever visited. I was really shocked to hear about this. The only thing I could think of was "Sikhs? Why Sikhs?" The only answer I can come up with is ignorance on the part of the shooter-- confusing Muslims with Sikhs because of skin color and demeanor (not that shooting Muslims would have been any better). Events like this-- attacking people out of ignorance and hatred (and apparently the wrong ones in this case)-- are the exact reason why I entered the field of religious studies.
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
Does Americans really have that much of a hard time differentiating between Indians and Muslims? the look is different so is the accent -_-
You have made the same mistake there Luna. Indian and muslim is not exclusive. There are indian muslims, african muslims, middle eastern muslims. I'm indian. And I'm Sikh. My best friend is Indian, and he's Hindu.
Indian is a nationality, Sikh/Hindu/Muslim is a religion.
Ahh you are right, Im so stupid >.<
is Sikh the one that prays and sings hymn at sun rise 5 am ish?
India was (and still is) home to 3 major religious groups, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism. Pakistan and Bangaladesh were Muslim heavy regions that later split off from India. Bad blood remains between the two nations to this day as we are well aware. India is primarily Hindi now and there are clusters of Sikhs in the NW I believe.
Sikhs are also fairly widespread as persecution led to a diaspora. They've been subject to a great deal of persecution especially in the 18th century when roughly a third of their population was wiped out by Afghans and again in the 20th century.
Does Americans really have that much of a hard time differentiating between Indians and Muslims? the look is different so is the accent -_-
You have made the same mistake there Luna. Indian and muslim is not exclusive. There are indian muslims, african muslims, middle eastern muslims. I'm indian. And I'm Sikh. My best friend is Indian, and he's Hindu.
Indian is a nationality, Sikh/Hindu/Muslim is a religion.
Ahh you are right, Im so stupid >.<
is Sikh the one that prays and sings hymn at sun rise 5 am ish?
No. Those are Muslims with their calls to prayer. And you're not stupid. Just don't know. And now you do, you too are Sikhi (student).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
I actually don't have any questions. I'm quite familiar with Sikhism in the sense of research*, I've just never met one. Thanks for the offer, though. I'm interested to see what questions you're asked, and how you'll answer them.
* My dad is a minister, and a very liberal one, we had many religious texts in my house growing up.
Then you had a childhood to envy. We need more people like you, and your father.
deathholydeath wrote:
I went to the Golden Temple a few years back. One of the most beautiful places I've ever visited. I was really shocked to hear about this. The only thing I could think of was "Sikhs? Why Sikhs?" The only answer I can come up with is ignorance on the part of the shooter-- confusing Muslims with Sikhs because of skin color and demeanor (not that shooting Muslims would have been any better). Events like this-- attacking people out of ignorance and hatred (and apparently the wrong ones in this case)-- are the exact reason why I entered the field of religious studies.
Ignorance leads to hate. Education is the ultimate form of enlightenment. It's a pleasure to meet you.
Amaya wrote:Sikhs are nearly universally Indian though.
India was (and still is) home to 3 major religious groups, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism. Pakistan and Bangaladesh were Muslim heavy regions that later split off from India. Bad blood remains between the two nations to this day as we are well aware. India is primarily Hindi now and there are clusters of Sikhs in the NW I believe.
Sikhs are also fairly widespread as persecution led to a diaspora. They've been subject to a great deal of persecution especially in the 18th century when roughly a third of their population was wiped out by Afghans and again in the 20th century.
Oh for sure there is bad blood. As a warrior tradition based religion we had typical enemies. Usually afghan muslims from the west. As such, many view Muslims as our enemies. Even I harbor a little resentment. I learned to let go of it in the army when I served with a muslim. We were like brothers. Instead of fighting each other, now we fought together.
Also, you forgot Buddhists!
[
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/06 05:08:13
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
.
