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I think this is the third time in less than a week I've uttered this phrase on the forum:

Utterly disgusting. Such loss of innocent lives, and such ignorance.... Makes me sick. donkey-cave probably thought he was shooting up a mosque, which would've been an act equally appalling.
Ugh.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-06/wisconsin-sikh-shooting-probed-by-fbi-as-domestic-terror#p2

Apparently the shooter had a 9-11 tattoo. I think we can safely say that he thought he was killing Muslims.

Bromsy wrote:I really really hope this isn't an issue of confusing Sikhs with Muslims. Need details. Because the Sikhs I've met have been pretty universally okay.

Sadly, it probably is. But it doesn't matter. The founder of our religion, apon receiving his inspiration, his words were "There is no Hindu, there is no Muslim". This is detestable, regardless of intended target.

LunaHound wrote:

deathholydeath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

bsohi wrote:No. Those are Muslims with their calls to prayer. And you're not stupid. Just don't know. And now you do, you too are Sikhi (student).

आप बहुत विनम्र हैं

What font is that? It looks like the characters after the initial "apa" and the "t" didn't quite make it.

EDIT: Ah, for some reason it cleared up in the quote.

Weird >.<, hope it made sense to bsohi.

I'm sorry Luna, but that's Hindi. The traditional language of the Sikhs is usually considered Punjabi. Being born and raised in Canada, I can speak it, but reading is definitely not my forte. Is it something about humility?


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Amaya wrote:http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-06/wisconsin-sikh-shooting-probed-by-fbi-as-domestic-terror#p2

Apparently the shooter had a 9-11 tattoo. I think we can safely say that he thought he was killing Muslims.

Trauma does different things to people. Too many harbor too much hate in their lives. It's tragic, both for the victims, and for the shooter.

RatBot wrote:I think this is the third time in less than a week I've uttered this phrase on the forum:

Utterly disgusting. Such loss of innocent lives, and such ignorance.... Makes me sick. donkey-cave probably thought he was shooting up a mosque, which would've been an act equally appalling.
Ugh.

I agree. I feel terribly sad.

@ bohshi

āpa bahuta vinamra haiṁ ^-^v

It's hard not to be humble in this situation.

Apparently the Gurudwara (sikh temple) president tried to rush the shooter before he was shot. I can only pray to aspire to such levels of bravery. That is nearly everything that Sikhi is meant to exemplify. The disregard for the self, the bravery, and the uncaring of the odds; all that mattered is to protect those who need it.

Sikhs aren't exactly known for not being bad ass, generally speaking.

My sympathies for the victims.

Amaya wrote:http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-06/wisconsin-sikh-shooting-probed-by-fbi-as-domestic-terror#p2

Apparently the shooter had a 9-11 tattoo. I think we can safely say that he thought he was killing Muslims.

Its quite telling how often extremists like this shooter likely was make such stupid errors.

Bromsy wrote:Sikhs aren't exactly known for not being bad ass, generally speaking.

But we have to be. The ideal Sikh is the Saint-Soldier. It's what we're taught to aspire too. Our greeting is an affirmation of that "Waheguru ji ke Khalsa, Waheguru ji ke Fateh" translates too "We are God's army, it is God's victory" (rough translation)

bsohi wrote:It's hard not to be humble in this situation.

Apparently the Gurudwara (sikh temple) president tried to rush the shooter before he was shot. I can only pray to aspire to such levels of bravery. That is nearly everything that Sikhi is meant to exemplify. The disregard for the self, the bravery, and the uncaring of the odds; all that mattered is to protect those who need it.

I'm sure that if the time ever comes (and hopefully you'll never be forced to face a situation like this), you'll find the strength to do what's necessary.

sebster wrote:My sympathies for the victims.

Amaya wrote:http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-06/wisconsin-sikh-shooting-probed-by-fbi-as-domestic-terror#p2

Apparently the shooter had a 9-11 tattoo. I think we can safely say that he thought he was killing Muslims.

Its quite telling how often extremists like this shooter likely was make such stupid errors.

As soon as he decided to pick up a gun in anger he made the mistake, regardless of target. If we had a the killings of innocent muslims, would we not express just as much outrage? I don't mean to imply otherwise, just that the target didn't even matter. It just stings a little more for me as a Sikh. The curiosity landing was today, I was to go to a party, now my family is at temple.


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deathholydeath wrote:

bsohi wrote:It's hard not to be humble in this situation.

Apparently the Gurudwara (sikh temple) president tried to rush the shooter before he was shot. I can only pray to aspire to such levels of bravery. That is nearly everything that Sikhi is meant to exemplify. The disregard for the self, the bravery, and the uncaring of the odds; all that mattered is to protect those who need it.

I'm sure that if the time ever comes (and hopefully you'll never be forced to face a situation like this), you'll find the strength to do what's necessary.

Like you said, we all pray it never comes to this. Thankfully in Canada, violent racism is a lot less common. We just have the insidious invisible variety here.

My dad jokes that running at a good fight even if it means death is ingrained in Sikhs. Look up the Battle for Saragarhi, my dad was named after the last soldier in the fight. 21 sikhs fought to the death against 10,000 afghans. The last one, Gurmukh Singh, proved so difficult to kill that they abandoned trying to fight him and just set fire to the building he was defending. I was born 2 days after the 90th anniversary of the battle, which is celebrated among some.

Sikhs can also have a pretty rigid patriarchy and honor killings, even in Canada, so that might cause some confusion among those less informed on the differences between them and Muslims.

bsohi wrote:As soon as he decided to pick up a gun in anger he made the mistake, regardless of target. If we had a the killings of innocent muslims, would we not express just as much outrage?

I hope, and genuinely believe, that dakka and the world at large would feel just as much outrage.

And I think you misunderstood my point. Note I used the word 'telling', meaning it is informative, or gives insight into a situation. As in, the fact that this guy shot people that weren't even of the faith he's afraid of tells us all how stupid bigots really are.

A prayer for the familes of the fallen. If he was connected to a white supremecist group, the FBI needs to go after them and put them down as a warning to others like they did with the KKK.

My condolences to the families of those killed, and to the survivors and their family.

I hope no one gets survivor's guilt, and that they rebuild their lives.

When I used to work at a college bursar, my immediate supervisor was a Sikh. Not a big fan of Muslims was he, and this was pre-911.

Racism is pure and adulterated feth to the highest degree.

I am a pretty good example of a fat white pasty male. I usually fly a couple times a year and I never have any problems. Never get pulled aside for secondary screening or anything like that.

Since 2010 I started growing out different kind of beards. I like to just switch it up and do different things with it, just because I can. I have had big old Elvis style chops, Lincoln style chinstrap, goatee, redneck beard, and in May of 2010 a beard that was mainly Muslim looking (shaved mustache, full growth everywhere else).

I flew from Oklahoma City to Germany that month, flying in shorts, t-shirt, glasses and a big old "Muslim beard". I go through security in Oklahoma City, get randomly pulled aside for secondary screening and a pat down. First time getting pulled aside for secondary.

I land in Minneapolis−Saint Paul, get off the plane and head over to my connecting flight. I make it almost all the way down to the plane when I hear yelling behind me: "Hey you! Stop! You in the yellow shirt! STOP!" Guess who was wearing a yellow shirt and who was chased down for another random screening? Now I am standing in the jet bridge getting another pat down while they are going through my carry on luggage for a second time in 3 hours.

Land in Amsterdam and I get a 3rd random secondary screening.

Never once was I picked for a secondary screening (although I do now because I refuse to go through advanced imaging scanners), and suddenly when I have a "muslim looking beard" I get picked for 3 random screenings in a row? Stereotype much?

Enough of a rant though. Sucks that people still have to die for no reason other than intolerance and hate.

Well, some of that can be blamed on the TSA, which has less intelligence than a barrel full of fish and is run about as competently as North Korea's economy.

Melissia wrote:Well, some of that can be blamed on the TSA, which has less intelligence than a barrel full of fish and is run about as competently as North Korea's economy.

No argument from me there.

d-usa wrote:Racism is pure and adulterated feth to the highest degree.

I am a pretty good example of a fat white pasty male. I usually fly a couple times a year and I never have any problems. Never get pulled aside for secondary screening or anything like that.

Since 2010 I started growing out different kind of beards. I like to just switch it up and do different things with it, just because I can. I have had big old Elvis style chops, Lincoln style chinstrap, goatee, redneck beard, and in May of 2010 a beard that was mainly Muslim looking (shaved mustache, full growth everywhere else).

I flew from Oklahoma City to Germany that month, flying in shorts, t-shirt, glasses and a big old "Muslim beard". I go through security in Oklahoma City, get randomly pulled aside for secondary screening and a pat down. First time getting pulled aside for secondary.

I land in Minneapolis−Saint Paul, get off the plane and head over to my connecting flight. I make it almost all the way down to the plane when I hear yelling behind me: "Hey you! Stop! You in the yellow shirt! STOP!" Guess who was wearing a yellow shirt and who was chased down for another random screening? Now I am standing in the jet bridge getting another pat down while they are going through my carry on luggage for a second time in 3 hours.

Land in Amsterdam and I get a 3rd random secondary screening.

Never once was I picked for a secondary screening (although I do now because I refuse to go through advanced imaging scanners), and suddenly when I have a "muslim looking beard" I get picked for 3 random screenings in a row? Stereotype much?

Enough of a rant though. Sucks that people still have to die for no reason other than intolerance and hate.

Next time, sport a nice curling moustache. However you will have to wear black and cackle maniacly at random intervals.

It was only a matter of time. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. People are fundamentally stupid.

Is the classic black doctor-like suitcase containing my evil toolkit optional?

Top-hat and monocle are mandatory though.

xole wrote:It was only a matter of time. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. People are fundamentally stupid.

Since you are people, and people are fundamentally stupid then you must also be fundamentally stupid, which means when you say something like 'people are fundamentally stupid' I can't trust that to be a true statement since it comes from a fundamentally stupid source, but if you are right then it would mean you aren't fundamentally stupid, and thus the premise is wrong, and again, I can't trust it to be true.


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d-usa wrote:Is the classic black doctor-like suitcase containing my evil toolkit optional?

Like Dr. Henry Killinger?

Bromsy wrote:Sikhs aren't exactly known for not being bad ass, generally speaking.

This man begs to differ:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15480741

Ahtman wrote:Sikhs can also have a pretty rigid patriarchy and honor killings, even in Canada, so that might cause some confusion among those less informed on the differences between them and Muslims.

I somehow doubt this guy was making a statement against honor killings, or know anything about them (and I don't see what they have to do with a horrific crime like this at all). He just saw "evil brown people".

Ahtman wrote:Since you are people, and people are fundamentally stupid then you must also be fundamentally stupid, which means when you say something like 'people are fundamentally stupid' I can't trust that to be a true statement since it comes from a fundamentally stupid source, but if you are right then it would mean you aren't fundamentally stupid, and thus the premise is wrong, and again, I can't trust it to be true.

I am stupid, in one way or another. But I suppose I could be wrong. Maybe you are just a donkey.

People are also racist and prone to stereotypes, mostly because people don't have the time to actually understand other people outside of their...contact area. It has an official name, but my memory fails me. The point is, we're all bad and we should feel bad.

One time the TSA mistook a flashlight I had for a bomb. One hell of an experience.

Steve steveson wrote:I somehow doubt this guy was making a statement against honor killings, or know anything about them (and I don't see what they have to do with a horrific crime like this at all). He just saw "evil brown people".

I don't think so either, I'm just saying that if they don't look beyond the surface it isn't a surprise they don't know they difference.

xole wrote:I am stupid, in one way or another. But I suppose I could be wrong.

How would you know?

xole wrote:Maybe you are just a donkey.

How could you know? You don't even know if you are fundamentally stupid or not.

I did have a very legitimate "oh crap" moment one time with the TSA.

I do a lot of photography which requires a cable remote to set of the shutter. Those stupid things cost like $20 a piece and break way to often.

So I started to make my own. Long piece of cable connected to a small plastic box that will fit in the palm of my hand. On one side of the box was a toggle switch that could be turned on and off with my index finger (for opening and closing the shutter) and on top of the box was a small push button (for focusing).

You don't realize how much your scratch build remote looks like a bomb detonator until it is being held by a TSA agent. Then your shutter toggle switch quickly becomes the arm/disarm switch and the button becomes the trigger.

Now I know it is less hassle to just pay $20 for a real one...

Intelligence is not the all-encompassing title people think it is. There are many types of intelligence, although we aren't exactly sure how many. Psychologists like to argue about it on their spare time. I could be socially daft and have the memory of a goldfish while being a master at some other things.

Amaya wrote:http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-06/wisconsin-sikh-shooting-probed-by-fbi-as-domestic-terror#p2

Apparently the shooter had a 9-11 tattoo. I think we can safely say that he thought he was killing Muslims.

And as such I blame fox news, as it creates extremists.

I wonder if other parts of the world think of fox news like how the US media depicts AL-gelzera (spelling?) TV.

juraigamer wrote:

Amaya wrote:http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-06/wisconsin-sikh-shooting-probed-by-fbi-as-domestic-terror#p2

Apparently the shooter had a 9-11 tattoo. I think we can safely say that he thought he was killing Muslims.

And as such I blame fox news, as it creates extremists.

I wonder if other parts of the world think of fox news like how the US media depicts AL-gelzera (spelling?) TV.

I'm sorry what extremists are you referring to?

Frazzled wrote:A prayer for the familes of the fallen. If he was connected to a white supremecist group, the FBI needs to go after them and put them down as a warning to others like they did with the KKK.

As a community, we're quite pleased that this at least is being referred too as an act of terrorism. Too many times we get frustrated, that when a brown man does something, it's terrorists, and when a white guy does pretty much the same thing it was "mental illness" or something to that affect.

Ouze wrote:When I used to work at a college bursar, my immediate supervisor was a Sikh. Not a big fan of Muslims was he, and this was pre-911.

Ancient feuds. Our religion was made partly as a reaction to Muslim oppression in India. That's why martial mastery is highly stressed in Sikhism, because back in the day we had too fight off Muslims all the time; seeing as they had a bounty on Sikh scalps. Even myself, and I'm pretty damn modern, harbor no goodwill to them, which is pretty sad and petty.

d-usa wrote:Racism is pure and adulterated feth to the highest degree.

Agreed, generalizations are harmful. But sometimes profiling is required, I understand this. I was in the army, it wasn't the little girls we were watching for, it was the men. Technically sexism, but helpful sexism.

d-usa wrote:
I flew from Oklahoma City to Germany that month, flying in shorts, t-shirt, glasses and a big old "Muslim beard". I go through security in Oklahoma City, get randomly pulled aside for secondary screening and a pat down. First time getting pulled aside for secondary.

I can't fault them completely when I get pulled. To be honest, if a man is going to blow a plane up, he's more likely to look like me (25 y/o brown male with a goatee) than say a 55 year old clean cut white gentleman in a suit. It's necessary. I just wish they'd get around the pre-text of it being 'random'. I know I'm being singled out, that's cool.

Steve steveson wrote:

This man begs to differ:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15480741

I've met that man. He comes to Ottawa every year or so for a month or two, and offers a free seminar for a month long. With a blade, he's truly peerless, but to be honest, with hand to hand combat, he's a bit of a crock. But he's a funny guy to hang out with for a month.

Ahtman wrote:Sikhs can also have a pretty rigid patriarchy and honor killings, even in Canada, so that might cause some confusion among those less informed on the differences between them and Muslims.

It's disgusting to see. Our religion was created to oppose the caste/class system imposed by the Hindu's. First thing that happened after our Guru's died was the creation of a new 'unnofficial' caste system. It makes me wretch to think about, and what turns me off about organized religion. Soon as the truly enlightened (My Guru's, Muhammed, Jesus, Buddha etc) disappear, the common man hurries to corrupt and twist as much as they can into their favor. Such is the fate of man.

juraigamer wrote:

And as such I blame fox news, as it creates extremists.

I wonder if other parts of the world think of fox news like how the US media depicts AL-gelzera (spelling?) TV.

Fox news may spread misinformation, and do a little bit of hate-mongering, but they're not too blame. He had the intent to murder in his heart, and it doesn't matter what coaxed it out of him. He could have had family that died in 9/11. Family who died in the two wars that sparked directly after it. So many different reasons, all completely irrelevant. He decided to kill innocents, and that decision was all his.