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I've never thought about this until now, but is there any mention of planets that have separate states, kind like modern day Earth?

Among all the fluff and books I have read, I've only come across planetary governments.

Armageddon is kind of like that, but from what I've read, most planets that are like that just have a planet-wide exterminatus and BOOM the planets Imperium...
But you'll find some of the planets in the Imperiums control will have some Orks infested there permanently.
But if you count the DoW games then Kronus is a big one

Gaunt's Ghosts: Straight Silver

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats

Everyone knows that sci-fi planets only have a single culture.


And, they only have a single biome too: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleBiomePlanet

The Imperium likes to deal with one individual or institution (like a noble house) for continuity and clear delineation of who takes responsibility for the world.

Hive worlds are already like many nations considering each hive has populations matching nations on Earth today. It is just that (like on Necromunda for example) there will be one leader of one hive (presumably the dominant one) that will be designated Imperial governor and be the go to point for any Imperial institutions.

Worlds with separate nations would presumably be treated the same way, with somebody or some post being chosen as the Imperial governor.

Its much more common then is portrayed.


However, it will not happen on planets that are controlled by the Imperium proper. By that I mean Hive Worlds, Forge Worlds, and Civilized worlds. These are planets where the Imperium has direct governing authority.

But planets like Fuedal and Feral worlds that are Imperial planets, but not directly governed by them, will almost certaintly have differing nations.

<o.0>

The thing that separates a Forge World from a Feudal World is the fact that a Forge World is run by the Mechanicus, and builds stuff. The people otherwise are treated little better than peasants and have fewer rights.

Imperial Worlds may well be multi-national sorts of things, with a UN-like council or governing body that determines who is the planetary governor/liaison to the Imperium. A Feral World likely has an Imperial Governor installed in an orbiting space-station, he never actually goes down to the planet itself... it's dangerous down there.

I know that Major Hives on Hive worlds function largely autonomously like nation states. But that might be something more like a state or local government, and not an actual nation in itself.

And I don't think there's anything stopping a planet from having a dozen governments and perhaps even outright war among factions. Provided that the Tithes still come in on time.

Far Seer wrote:I've never thought about this until now, but is there any mention of planets that have separate states, kind like modern day Earth?

Among all the fluff and books I have read, I've only come across planetary governments.

That's an interesting point. I think in all of the BL books I have read, there has only ever been a single instance of a world which was divided into different states before the coming of the Imperium, I believe a Horus Heresy short by Gav Thorpe (I like to think he had read one of my short stories in the early pre-heresy days and copied the concept I had originally used in my own fan-fic.. )

But yes, definitely in the early days of the Great Crusade, where humanity had not long emerged from the old night of isolation, you would have thought more worlds than not would have been split up and not have some kind of super-government.

There was a previously-mentioned Gaunt's Ghosts novel which features a planet of several (I want to say a dozen or more) various nation-states arranged in a protracted war with one another. I call this planet "Planet WWI" because the setting and style of combat is very much based on the trench-warfare of the First World War, down to the rank system being based on virtue of birth and social class, tunnel-visioned tactical planning and horribly out-dated weapons and command structures (compared to that of the modern Guard).

Each Imperial world has a single Governor (who is usually hereditary) so I would imagine that each world would have a single political block as the Governor can't be otherthrown by anyone other than the Administratium, Inquisition or other Imperial institution without Imperial intervention (usually armed).

Most populous worlds would have distinct cultures but they won't have nations like we know them. There will be exceptions of course.

Palindrome wrote:Each Imperial world has a single Governor (who is usually hereditary) so I would imagine that each world would have a single political block as the Governor can't be otherthrown by anyone other than the Administratium, Inquisition or other Imperial institution without Imperial intervention (usually armed).

Most populous worlds would have distinct cultures but they won't have nations like we know them. There will be exceptions of course.

The governor isn't always hereditary...
In some cases the governor is decided on by a collection of the most powerful lords of the planet...

It's in the literature, 4th, 5th , and 6th ed rulebooks, and at least the last two guard codices.

The usual reference is to savage worlds that engage in endless tribal warfare (where the best warriors get picked out and put in guard regiments). They also reference feudal worlds with in-fighting, and to the idea of gang warfare in the underbellies of hives.

Humans certainly stay divided in the 41st mellenia

"Divided We Stand" is a slogan amongst the various Adepta.

The planet Verghast in the GG book Necropolis has 3 main Hives Vervunhive, Zoica and Vannick. All three operate autonomously from each other and even war occasionally however you couldnt really argue that they had different cultures.

I know its been mentioned before in at least some sources, but I remember mention that in the case of a planet with multiple 'factions' (states, countries, clans/tribes, whatever.) they may select one of them (by various means) to represent the planet to the Imperium at large. I will have to dig to see if I can find the source(s) though, so while I'm FAIRLY certain its the case, don't quote me on it just yet.

you probably wouldn't find this on worlds that the Imperium has a greater presence or influence on - its more likely present on those worlds where they have infrequent contact with and only a nominal presence.

Anyhow, if I can find the source, I'll post it.

Edit: D'oh, I forgot one obvious example: Necromunda! Each Hive is basically an independent faction/nation for all intents and purposes (distinct from all other hives) and yet there is a single Imperial commander on that planet (Lord Helmawr) who effectively 'rules' the planet in the name of the Emperor. IIRC he does that by having the only valid spaceport on the whole dang planet, or something.)

purplefood wrote:
The governor isn't always hereditary...
In some cases the governor is decided on by a collection of the most powerful lords of the planet...

If there is a common theme in 40k fluff is that there is a loophole for just about everything. In general though they are hereditary (unless the fluff has changed recently)

It's not that it's a loophole, it's that the Adeptus Terra doesn't care. As long as the tithe is met and the strictures of the Imperium are honored, a world is free to rule itself pretty much however it feels like. There's a million worlds in the Imperium, and probably a hundred thousand different ways that those worlds are governed.

Right, the fluff is pretty clear that the Imperium doesn't care WHO is the governor, so long as there IS a governor, and that they pay up their yearly dues.

Your planet could be a republic with an elected leader, or a hereditary monarchy, or an aristocratic class that has a way of handling things. Whatever. So long as the planet stays loyal and coughs up guardsmen, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Especially since there are many planets that aren't even run by proper governors, like forge worlds being controlled from mars and all of the many planets that the Ecclesiarchy controls through their own hierarchical system, much less the various sub-fiefs that space marines control.

It's not cannon, but in the fluff for my guardsmen's planet, there are several large ruling families that always fight over who is going to be the leader (sort of like the shogun in years of old), and whoever happens to be winning at the moment is post-facto declared the divine messenger of the Emperor (aka. governor). Oh, another tribal leader kicked him out? Well, he must have lost favor with the Emperor then, all hail the new king!

So long as tithes keep rolling out, it doesn't matter who is in charge.

Tadashi wrote:Gaunt's Ghosts: Straight Silver

My God! How could I forget??
My memory is getting terrible.

Psienesis wrote:It's not that it's a loophole, it's that the Adeptus Terra doesn't care. As long as the tithe is met and the strictures of the Imperium are honored, a world is free to rule itself pretty much however it feels like. There's a million worlds in the Imperium, and probably a hundred thousand different ways that those worlds are governed.

Of course but the Governor is appointed by the Administratium who take a very long time to do anything that they don't have to, local politics aren't going to affect that. There may be a system in place where the leader of a specific faction is the Governor for example but that doesn't foster the need for modern nations.

If the governor is deposed, by what ever means, the Administratium is going to want to know why and will be asking some pointed questions.

Nations vs. planetary governments are one of the few things that make sense in 40k.

Due to the Imperium's size/general policies the Administratum will only want to "deal" with 1 official from each planet to make things easier. They aren't going to tolerate having to juggle through various countries and warlords to get what they want of a world (conscripts, psykers, resources). They'll tell the planet to give them some kind of Governor equivalent, or they'll force a solution to give them a Governor.

On the "planet giving them a Governor" option, lets say the planet just appoints a "Administratum representative" and the planet itself still has many nations. I feel that the rep will gain an amount of power through his position that get him recognized as the de facto leader of the world by the Imperium, and he in turn can use this legitimacy to amass power on his own world.

The "Imperium forces them to have a Governor" option is a bit more obvious.

Both solutions however move towards a unification of a planet. That being said, many worlds such as Fenris and Attilla are still heavily tribal in nature.

There are probably planets like this, and the head of the most powerful nation would probably be planetary governor. Also, the Imperium, despite what some have said, does allow infighting on its planets, as long as neither side is anti-Imperium, and the tithes are payed.

There's some sort of fluff somewhere (IIRC) that so long as a world is loyal to an Imperium at large, the populate of a planet can in fact over throw the governor. Presumably y what ever criteria, or through what ever means they wish.