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2012/08/10 05:26:05
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
FAST ATTACK Land Speeder Typhoon Baal Predator (no sponsons)
HEAVY SUPPORT Predator (Autocannon w/ Lascannon sponsons) Vindicator Vindicator
Pre-Game This mission is very difficult for my army. Only Troops can grab the Relic and my Troops are that delicious combination of slow and fragile. That said, my army is very good at objective denial (St Celestine is probably the single best Denial unit in the game at this point) and that will factor heavily into my plans. Unfortunately it's not enough to be near the Relic, I actually have to kill the model holding it so this mission will present a unique challenge.
Deployment
Spoiler:
(Yes this picture is horrible, but I took three different shots and this was the best one. I'm sorry.) The grey blob in in the bottom of the ruin is the Relic. My opponent won the roll off, so he got to start on the open side of the ruin, another strike against my army!
A smart deployment by my opponent. His army was bunched up with the AV13 vehicles screening the AV11 Razorbacks. He had two more Razors hiding in the backfield as reinforcements and the Typhoon is split wide for side shots. Since his vehicles are all fast his army can cover a lot of ground and still be fully effective in the shooting phase. I'll be honest, it was a little intimidating.
This is the overview of the table after Scout moves. He's used the Baal's scout move to further screen off the objective.
Since I had to react to his deployment and also advance upfield, my Aegis Line was of little use in this game. I deployed one Battle Sister Squad (BSS) out in front of it, planning to just run straight at the objective. The other BSS was going to try and move around the right. Due to the position of the Ruin and my opponent's choice of deployment zones, I have to deploy both Retributor squads outside of cover if I want to have any chance of getting shots off on his vehicles. I scouted my Dominions up towards the objective with the goal of screening out my army a bit and also putting me in a really great position if I managed to seize the initiative. (Hey, when you start a mission this deep in a hole you sometimes have to grasp at straws.) Finally, since I was aiming for denial, Celestine and the Seraphim are in reserves ready to Deep Strike.
Lamenters Turn 1
Spoiler:
He moves a Vindicator, Ass-back, Predator (auto-las), and Typhoon against my right.
He brings up the other Vindicator and Ass-back to join the Baal. Mephiston's feeling confident and stays out front.
First Blood! The Vindicator drops a Demolisher shell on the Immolator killing three Dominions in the blast. The survivors fail their pinning test as is tradition.
On my right, the tanks shoot up my Retributors. I'm so glad I had all those spare bodies! Even after four casualties I've still got all of my Heavy Bolters. The Typhoon also glanced a Hull Point off of the Exorcist.
Sisters Turn 1
Spoiler:
My opponent is totally stoked by the majesty of my movement phase. I kept both Retributor squads static and moved up both BSSs to get closer to the objective. The un-pinned Dominions disembark and prepare to melta something, and by "something", I mean Mephiston.
AV13 is something I struggle against when I'm out of melta range. I'm not sure how it all went down, but I either sent the Retributors or the Exorcist after the Typhoon and the other unit supported by my BSS's Multi-melta failed to damage the tanks.
This part of the turn was a bit of an embarrassment. I had two objectives I wanted to accomplish. 1) Kill Mephiston. 2) Stop the Vindicator. Objective 1 would've been a lot easier if those Dominions hadn't failed their LD check. But I still had an Immo, a Dominion squad, and the Rets+Quad Gun to throw at him.
The Dominions struck first, but only put 1 wound on him. The Retributors rolled well and put up a handful of rends and a few more wounds. My opponent had a very aggressive dice rolling style and his save rolls got mixed in with the wound counter he had placed after the Doms shot. (They were the same yellow dice)
He cleared the dice and declared that I had done two wounds. I mistook the wound counter for a failed save and said it was actually 3 wounds. Thinking I was getting cheated out of a possible Turn 1 kill on Mephiston (kind of a big deal) I exploded into a giant ball of nerd rage. There was yelling and Rob had to come and settle me down a bit.
It was eventually sorted out, but unfortunately it soured the tone for the rest of the game.
So once the smoke had cleared, Meph had two wounds left. Since there was no way to kill him this turn, I sent my Immolator against the Vindicator. I was in melta range so the shot penned easily, but only could manage a stun. At least it wouldn't be able to shoot next turn.
Lamenters Turn 2
Spoiler:
The Vindicator advances while the rest of his vehicles withdraw. Two of the assault squads disembark to go after the Relic.
The Vindicator and its buddies kill all but two of my Retributors and the Auto-Las Predator (maybe?) explodes the Exorcist.
The tank wall on the left stays in place. Mephiston casts Hallucination on my Battle Sisters effectively pinning them in my next turn. The previously pinned Dominion squad took a casualty and then broke and ran.
Mephiston assaults the Dominions. I get a lucky melta shot in overwatch and put a fourth wound on him. I'm trying to remember what happened here. None of the Dominions died so I'm guessing he whiffed badly.
Sisters Turn 2
Spoiler:
The Battle Sisters are still suffering from their hallucinations and don't move. The Immolator moves over and puts another shot into the Vindicator. It's another pen, but I only manage to immobilize it. At least now it can... only fire straight into my lines. Ugh. The Retributors were more productive and blew up the Ass-back.
I didn't take a picture of the right flank, but here you can see that the BSS moved up a bit. I think the two Heavy Bolters struck out against the other Ass-back.
Since my Dominions "lucked out" last turn, I used my challenge to lock Mephiston in combat for another turn.
Lamenters Turn 3
Spoiler:
Mephiston casts Dominate and then Psychic Shriek on my Battle Sisters. He got a good roll for Shriek (14 or 15) and wiped out half of the squad which promptly broke. I'm supposed to be advancing towards the Relic not running away!
The Immolator which somehow survived turns 1 and 2 is finally exploded after taking a Demolisher shell point-blank.
Mephiston wipes out the Dominions and gets a nice big consolidation move allowing him to hide from my guns. This is very bad. My left flank is all but destroyed. Both Immolators are dead, one of the Dominion squads is wiped, the other is broken along with the Battle Sisters.
Sisters Turn 3
Spoiler:
Here comes the cavalry! Losing badly I needed something to go my way. The way he set up his vehicle screen, he left a nice little hole right in the middle of his army. So I put my Seraphim Superior right in the middle and then rolled the scatter die. HIT!
This image was taken after their shooting. They easily wiped out the squad that was holding the Relic, but now they'll have to survive a turn of being shot at with everything the Lamenters have.
You can also see that my Battle Sisters are finally getting close to the Relic.
Lamenters Turn 4
Spoiler:
The rest of the Assault Marines disembark to eliminate the new threat posed by the Seraphim. While the tank wall between my Battle Sisters and his troops has been re-established.
It's a little blurry, but after all of the shooting, the Seraphim VSS is still standing while Celestine takes a dirt nap. His two-man Assault Squad has regained control of the Relic.
Sisters Turn 4
Spoiler:
The surviving Seraphim jumps behind Marines holding the Relic and bolters them in the back. The startled survivor drops the Relic and runs. Turnabout is fair play my friend!
My BSS multi-charged the Razorbacks. After their performance last game against the War Walkers I put too much faith in my Krak Grenades. I should've concentrated on the Ass-back on the left. Instead, splitting my attacks, I can only manage a single glance on each tank.
Lamenters Turn 5
Spoiler:
"See this gun here? This is what's going to kill you." The lone survivor from his Assault Squad regroups and joins up with another undamaged squad who for the third time, pick up the Relic. The other Assault squad moves around to take care of the Battle Sisters.
Not pictured, the squad carrying the Relic capped the solo Seraphim VSS and the Battle Sisters were able to withstand the charge from the Assault Marines and held them in combat.
Blurry Mephiston moves out of his hidey-hole to finish off the other BSS who've finally gotten their back together. I didn't take a picture but he did succeed in wiping them out.
Sisters Turn 5
Spoiler:
After failing to come back on Turn 4 Celestine hops back up! She uses her flamer against the two remaining Assault squads. The solo Assault Marine fails his save as did the Marine carrying the Relic (he was in the front). Not pictured, my Retributors are finally able to put Mephiston down.
Celestine whiffs, but the Battle Sisters deliver harsh justice to the Lamenters. The four assault marines are the only infantry units that my opponent has left.
Lamenters Turn 6
Spoiler:
There were no pictures taken, but the combat between the lone Lamenter and my Battle Sisters continued while Celestine got her act together and wiped out the squad she was fighting.
Sisters Turn 6
Spoiler:
Celestine further consolidates into the Lamenters Deployment Zone and the last few Battle Sisters remain locked up with the sole surviving Assault Marine. This would be the final turn of the game.
The Aftermath
Spoiler:
The only remaining Troops units were locked in combat, so with no one controlling the Relic, it would come down to Secondary Objectives. The Lamenters had 1 VP for First Blood, but I had 1 point for killing Mephiston and another point for scoring the Linebreaker objective with Celestine.
Victory for the Sisters! 2-1
This was another really close and very bloody game. After some tough luck and serious abuse at the hands of Mephiston the ladies were able to turn it around when Celestine & Co dropped in right on top of the Relic. Celestine and the Seraphim were, once again, the MVPs as they managed to wipe out 3 of the 4 Lamenters Assault Squads. I have to imagine it was frustrating for my opponent when every time he picked up the Relic, I shot down the unit that was holding it.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/08/10 07:39:54
2012/08/10 11:43:52
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Suprising how weak the assault marines were, i had quite a simular army planned at 1850 and had 4x5 man tac squads in a razorback each and a scout squad but looking at this bat rep its maybe not a good idea!
40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/ 06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final
2012/08/10 17:19:35
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
MarkyMark wrote:Suprising how weak the assault marines were, i had quite a simular army planned at 1850 and had 4x5 man tac squads in a razorback each and a scout squad but looking at this bat rep its maybe not a good idea!
Yeah, 5 Marines is not a resilient unit. I don't play marines, but I think the "min squad in a Razorback" thing is a very 5th Edition concept. Each one of those Tacs is going to cost you 90 points so at the end of the day, you've got 360pts (~20% of your army) tied up in units that aren't doing anything. At least in 5th, they made your Razorbacks scoring. At this point, I think only Grey Knight Henchmen can really pull that off, and that's because their squads are only 12pts each instead of 90.
All that said, the Lamenters actually did really well, finishing 9th overall so give your list a shot and see if you like it.
2012/08/12 14:20:42
Subject: Re:Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
I just found this post on accident looking for Lamenters propaganda! Thats my army and I am the unlucky participant in this ignominous defeat (Lamenters = cursed founding = unlucky....see, I'm playing by the fluff!) I was a little bitter about this, because I really felt like I dominated the game for the most part and if it were not for Celestine and her ridiculous getting back up it wouldn't have been close, but such is tournament life I suppose. I knew Celly and her seraphim were going to come in at some point and I left that hole in my backfield on purpose - I knew you could only hurt one thing and I wanted you in a place where I could wipe out the squad, which was pretty much what happened. I mentally spaced out about Celestine getting back up, or I didnt worry about it, either way I thought things were well in hand. The 5 man RB squads are exceedingly fragile, I dont like them ever having to see the table if I can help it but when the Seraphim came in I needed every last gun and frag grenade to take them down so out they came (after the game I remember thinking, why didnt I just get back in the transport?). I would prefer to have more resilient scoring units, but the 5 man RB squad is the biggest bang for the cheapest points BA can get, plus I dont have a horde of other models ready to go so the 5th edition list had to make due. I went 4 and 2, dont judge them too harshly
Oh side note - two of my vehicles are brownish-grey because theyre in the middle stages of being weathered. I havent put the base Yellow on yet, so they look strange but trust me, its a WIP!
Well played to Amerikon, and no hard feelings about the Red Fury that overtook you early in the game - as a Blood Angel successor, I can understand
2012/08/13 07:46:28
Subject: Re:Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Wait, your Dakka handle is Dogstar? Are you sure your name's not "Sirius"? The only other possible explanation is that you're a huge fan of Keanu Reeve's music career.
Dogstar34 wrote:The 5 man RB squads are exceedingly fragile, I dont like them ever having to see the table if I can help it but when the Seraphim came in I needed every last gun and frag grenade to take them down so out they came (after the game I remember thinking, why didnt I just get back in the transport?).
Looking back over the pictures, I'm not sure that getting back in the Razorbacks was really an option. Once the squad holding The Relic was wiped out, you had to do two things: Kill the Seraphim and get the Relic back.
At the start of Turn 4 you had two 5 man squads and a 2 man squad that could get the Relic. One of them had to go after the Relic and only the 2 man squad was able to do that Turn 4. The others got out, as you mentioned, to kill the Seraphim. I think the real problem for you was in my next turn when my lone surviving Seraphim killed the guy with the Relic and broke the squad. So when Turn 5 rolls around, which squad would you put back in their tank?
You might have been able to embark the squad that eventually assaulted my Battle Sisters, but then that unit would be free to act in my next two turns. So I think charging them was the right move. On the other side, you're down to 6 Assault Marines that need to get the Relic, so I don't think you'd gain anything by embarking either of those units. Maybe you could've embarked the lone Assault Marine and tried to get the Linebreaker point, but that was probably unlikely.
I'm not sure if it was possible at that point but if you could have somehow surrounded the Relic with vehicles that might have been a winning strategy. Celestine died on turn 3 so it's VERY likely that she's going to get back up before the game ends. In that case you can't really stop her from using her flamer, but if you can surround the Relic that could prevent an assault.
I think you played correctly but ultimately this mission combined with your army composition favors Celestine quite a bit. The mission forced you to expose your weak troops and Celestine is really good at killing small squads of Marines.
I'd also agree that I was losing badly, since the whole left side of my army had pretty much packed it in. But being able to drop my Seraphim in was the game changer. That may have been where you wanted them to land, but it was also where they could cause the most trouble. And even though they only got one real round of shooting, they gave what was left of my army (most important of which was a full strength Battle Sister Squad) a full turn of not getting shot at and they put Celestine's body in a target rich environment.
Dogstar34 wrote:Well played to Amerikon, and no hard feelings about the Red Fury that overtook you early in the game - as a Blood Angel successor, I can understand
Thanks. I still feel weird about the whole thing. That's not who I am. I can get animated and loud, but I never freak out like that.
2012/08/13 09:13:22
Subject: Re:Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Amerikon wrote:Wait, your Dakka handle is Dogstar? Are you sure your name's not "Sirius"? The only other possible explanation is that you're a huge fan of Keanu Reeve's music career.
I go by Dogstar because I am named after Sirius, the star also known as alpha Canis Majoris and commonly referred to as the Dog Star, the primary star in the Canis Major constellation. Thanks, hippie parents
Whats done is done, but if Celestine doesnt get back up then I win 5-0. She stood up and took away my Slay point, gave you a linebreaker point, and killed the marine holding the relic. Its a 5 point swing, combined with Mephison taking a dirt nap to give you a 2-1 win on secondaries. With the amount of damage I did and the position I held, if its any other HQ than Celestine then the game is over turn 3. Like I said, I just didnt think about it which is my mistake, c'est la vie. Thats just the way things go, like your victory in game 5 due to the DE player *making* 4 flickerfield saves. You just had providence on your side, or the Emperor smiled upon you, or however you want to put it. Regardless of how things turn out I had a great time, I had some really fun games, and rest assured I will be waiting for you next year!
2012/08/13 18:25:46
Subject: Re:Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Dogstar34 wrote:Whats done is done, but if Celestine doesnt get back up then I win 5-0. She stood up and took away my Slay point, gave you a linebreaker point, and killed the marine holding the relic. Its a 5 point swing, combined with Mephison taking a dirt nap to give you a 2-1 win on secondaries. With the amount of damage I did and the position I held, if its any other HQ than Celestine then the game is over turn 3.
Fair enough, you would have won handily had we only played 4 turns and if I had brought an army that wasn't Sisters of Battle. I was playing from turn 1 to win on Secondaries because I was at a massive structural disadvantage. You had first turn, the Relic was on "your side" of the Ruin, and you had 4 Troops in fast vehicles. I had two foot troops. I knew from before I deployed that I had almost zero chance of even getting my troops in LoS of the Relic so I had to kill your troops and deny the objective, which I did.
About Celestine:
This is for everyone, because I see this a lot. (Even a veteran like Reece seemed upset that she got back up in Game 2 against him.) Celestine died on turn 3 which means I had a minimum of two chances to get back up. That means she had a 75% chance of coming back by Turn 5. For perspective, here are other things in 40K that have a 75% chance of happening: a FNP Blood Angel saving a single wound from a bolter, a twin-linked multi-melta killing a single Marine, a Ld 8 pinning check (not unlike the one my Dominions failed that kept me from killing Mephiston on Turn 1).
Everything Celestine did in that game was completely average: she stood up after two turns, she flamered 6 marines and killed 2, she fought 4 marines in HtH and killed them in two rounds of combat. If you math-hammer her performace that's exactly the most likely outcome. If you convince yourself that it was just unlucky for all of that to happen you're setting yourself up for it to happen to you again.
2012/08/13 18:55:46
Subject: Re:Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
I call it the "shock" effect when Celestine gets back up.
She is more annoying than my Necron Lords, who if they don't get back up, then they don't get back up (even that's annoying enough to most opponents). Celestine can always get back up.
What you need to do to her is what Christian did to her....lock her up with a dread....and even that isn't full-proof. I actually tried that once but my stupid dread insta-gibbed her with just 1 attack. Then she got back up.
jy2 wrote:I call it the "shock" effect when Celestine gets back up.
She is more annoying than my Necron Lords, who if they don't get back up, then they don't get back up (even that's annoying enough to most opponents). Celestine can always get back up.
That's fair, and I suppose it's not easy being on the other side of that, especially given how rarely people face Battle Sisters. Hopefully people will read this thread and realize that if Celestine dies early, it's highly likely that she'll get back up. Although, if they do, my army might not be as good anymore!
While comparing her to a Necron Lord is fair in the sense that they together comprise the set {HQs that can get back up when they die}, it's worth noting that the amount of shooting or CC attacks it takes to kill a Necron Lord would probably kill Celestine 3 times over.
jy2 wrote:What you need to do to her is what Christian did to her....lock her up with a dread....and even that isn't full-proof. I actually tried that once but my stupid dread insta-gibbed her with just 1 attack. Then she got back up.
Yeah he got a wound on her with his dred in that last round. I was praying for that , but it didn't happen.
2012/08/13 20:37:31
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
L'Etat C'Est Moi wrote:What is her statline like? T3 W3 3+/4++? Power Sword/Bolt Pistol?
WS7, Init 7, 5 Attacks Base, S+T 3, 3 Wounds, no Eternal Warrior, 2+/4++, AP3 PW that always wounds on a 4+ or better and a heavy flamer.
She is, as we like to say, awesome covered in awesome sauce with eat your face sprinkles.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/08/13 20:48:50
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2012/08/13 22:10:56
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
L'Etat C'Est Moi wrote:What is her statline like? T3 W3 3+/4++? Power Sword/Bolt Pistol?
WS7, Init 7, 5 Attacks Base, S+T 3, 3 Wounds, no Eternal Warrior, 2+/4++, AP3 PW that always wounds on a 4+ or better and a heavy flamer.
She is, as we like to say, awesome covered in awesome sauce with eat your face sprinkles.
I agree, but she wouldn't be any of that if she didn't come back because she gets ID'd by just about anything in the game that's not a bolter. I'm pretty sure in my game against Christian she died to a Psyback shot. I'll counter my own argument by saying that even if she didn't have the comeback ability, she'd still probably be worth her points, especially now that you can keep her alive longer by putting her in a unit. The comeback ability makes her great instead of just good. She also took a big hit with the new Power Weapon rules. She used to be really good at sniping characters thanks to her high Initiative, but all too often they have 2+ armor so that's out the window.
Like I said before, she's really good at killing small units of Marines and also for pipping a couple of wounds off of an MC (before it gets to smash her face in). She also makes Seraphim a really good unit and she's one of the best objective denial units around. If anyone still thinks she's cheesy or unfair, she's an HQ choice for Sisters of Battle. We have almost nothing else. Beyond that, I keep my eyes open here and I have yet to see all the people on Dakka scrambling to get Celestine into their army as an Ally, but half the armies I played against at the Golden Throne had a Farseer on a jetbike.
2012/08/14 00:20:04
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Or, in short, awesome topped with awesome with bash your face sprinkles.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2012/08/14 00:53:50
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2012/08/22 23:44:52
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Wow, I really thought you were going to lose that one as well, and then, of course, you didn't.
I know that 5x tac marines are fragile, but something seems fishy about it. It looked like one of them died to nothing but a bit of bolter fire, and another died to a single flamer hit? I guess I don't know sisters, but that's kind of shocking to me.
As for celestine, welcome to the world of 40k: the dice game. Either the dice were favorable, and celestine gets back up and the sisters win the match, or the dice are unfavorable, she doesn't, and the sisters lose in a land slide. It wound up that just a few key die rolls over the course of the game (failing to hurt the vindicator with a couple meltaguns, failing to kill mephiston with a few die rolls, celestine showing up late and then getting back up just in time, etc.) were the few events that actually had a serious impact on how the game progressed. If you don't like the random element, then stop playing a game with dice, I suppose.
Anyways, this was a neat game. It's especially interesting since I'm starting to move my foot guard in the direction of this kind of a list/playstyle. How have your heavy bolters been treating you?
Ailaros wrote: Wow, I really thought you were going to lose that one as well, and then, of course, you didn't.
I know that 5x tac marines are fragile, but something seems fishy about it. It looked like one of them died to nothing but a bit of bolter fire, and another died to a single flamer hit? I guess I don't know sisters, but that's kind of shocking to me.
There was one who got bolt pistoled and died. (In my mind the Seraphim Veteran jumped behind him and then got him with a head shot.) So yeah, that was fortunate. The "single flamer hit" was from St Celestine's Heavy Flamer. It hit 6 Marines and two died, which is pretty typical.
Ailaros wrote: Anyways, this was a neat game. It's especially interesting since I'm starting to move my foot guard in the direction of this kind of a list/playstyle. How have your heavy bolters been treating you?
The Heavy Bolters were a last minute addition actually. I usually would run just a single minimum sized squad. I think the upgrade to two full sized units was pretty revelatory. I ultimately have to sacrifice a couple of inches of range in order to put all of the extra bodies out front, but they are really good at keeping the Heavies alive. Power Armor really helps with that so I'm not sure how it will migrate over to IG. Aegis seems like almost a no-brainer for Foot Guard, though. Again, I don't know how it would transfer to IG, but I found playing with majority foot troops to be really fun. I've been pushing around boxes for years and years now. It's a really nice change of pace.
2012/08/23 04:37:00
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Amerikon wrote:There was one who got bolt pistoled and died. (In my mind the Seraphim Veteran jumped behind him and then got him with a head shot.) So yeah, that was fortunate. The "single flamer hit" was from St Celestine's Heavy Flamer. It hit 6 Marines and two died, which is pretty typical.
Ah, okay
Amerikon wrote:The Heavy Bolters were a last minute addition actually. I usually would run just a single minimum sized squad. I think the upgrade to two full sized units was pretty revelatory. I ultimately have to sacrifice a couple of inches of range in order to put all of the extra bodies out front, but they are really good at keeping the Heavies alive. Power Armor really helps with that so I'm not sure how it will migrate over to IG. Aegis seems like almost a no-brainer for Foot Guard, though. Again, I don't know how it would transfer to IG, but I found playing with majority foot troops to be really fun. I've been pushing around boxes for years and years now. It's a really nice change of pace.
In this case, it would be done with HS slots. I'm kind of going back and forth between the autocannon tank and the heavy bolter tank, and was curious if the heavy bolters were doing enough heavy lifting against transports and fliers for you.
On the one hand, you get a lot more shots with the heavy bolter (especially in the case with a punisher being a heavy 20), but on the other hand, they don't do anything against storm ravens, chimeras, etc., which is what's keeping me from whole-heartedly supporting them. What do you do in these cases?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/23 04:37:21
Ailaros wrote: On the one hand, you get a lot more shots with the heavy bolter (especially in the case with a punisher being a heavy 20), but on the other hand, they don't do anything against storm ravens, chimeras, etc., which is what's keeping me from whole-heartedly supporting them. What do you do in these cases?
Don't forget that Sisters Heavy Bolters can potentially rend thanks to Divine Guidance so they can hurt AV12.
Each unit of Sisters have a Act of Faith and they must pass a faith test (with some modifiers depending on certain conditions). In the case of Retributors, their Act of Faith makes their weapons rending. So even their normal boltguns can potentially hurt AV12 assuming they pass their Faith test to make their weapons rending.
They get Rending on a 4+ (so a 50/50 shot). If they take any casualties that gets bumped up to 3+. With 12 shots, you can generally expect one or two rends per shooting phase. A rending Heavy Bolter actually has the chance to glance AV14 (and similarly, penetrate AV13). I think from the perspective of IG, you're better off sticking with Multi-Lasers and Autocannons, since the higher strength will make up for the Sisters' ability to get Rending.
The new changes to blast rules makes me think that IG is mech's nightmare even more than it previously was. Now, trying to castle up your Razorbacks, Chimeras, whatever is just asking for trouble against Battle Cannon, and Manticore shots.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Let me add, that Sisters can Scout up a bunch of meltaguns with their Dominion squads. That makes the Heavy Bolters deadly even if they don't get their Act of Faith off, because it opens up enemy infantry to a high volume of fire. So if you could create an IG list that can get close range melta shots on Turn 1 or 2, you could probably have success with Heavy Bolters.
What you really need are some Night Scythes that can 36" and drop some meltavets. Why do Necrons get all the best toys??
Automatically Appended Next Post: Gah, another addition. The Heavy Bolters are weak against flyers, since even with 4, I can't get enough shots off to reliably glance or penetrate AV11+. I really think that twin-linked weapons are your only shot against flyers, until AA mounts become more widely available. Shooting at BS1 is a real
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/08/23 06:37:19
2012/08/23 08:01:51
Subject: Re:Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
Amerikon wrote:I think from the perspective of IG, you're better off sticking with Multi-Lasers and Autocannons, since the higher strength will make up for the Sisters' ability to get Rending.
Yeah, guess I'll just stick to the autocannon tanks then.
Amerikon wrote:The new changes to blast rules makes me think that IG is mech's nightmare even more than it previously was. Now, trying to castle up your Razorbacks, Chimeras, whatever is just asking for trouble against Battle Cannon, and Manticore shots.
Actually not. Changes to the vehicle damage table mean that you're half as likely to kill vehicles with blast weapons now. Yes, you can put glances on multiple targets, but then you're leaving a bunch of slightly injured vehicles rather than a few dead ones.
In any case, glancing things to death with multi-shot weapons is the more consistent way to handle vehicles than blast weapons.
Amerikon wrote:Let me add, that Sisters can Scout up a bunch of meltaguns with their Dominion squads.
Yeah, how important are these to you? Sometimes you're using them in that role and sometimes not. I used to outflank a bunch of meltaguns with al'rahem in my guard army and at first it worked wonders. Then people realised that they just needed to stay away from the board edges on turn 1, and it went downhill in a hurry.
Amerikon wrote:The Heavy Bolters are weak against flyers, since even with 4, I can't get enough shots off to reliably glance or penetrate AV11+.
Yes, but guard can. For 200 points, we get an AV14 vehicle that throws down 29 S5 shots per turn. THAT has the shots required to throw down fliers. Fliers that aren't storm ravens or vendettas...
I personally Hate Mephiston with all my heart, him being the one thing that I can never get close to killing. He Rips through my army like a hurricane.
Mephiston ... Meet Karandras ... The new king of Killing like you
He is next on my 'to buy list' ... or Fire Dragons
Good game btw!
The time for using the knife to remove this cancer is long gone. Bring forth the torch.
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2012/08/23 17:40:59
Subject: Re:Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
rodfarruguia wrote:Glad to see you got your win and moral win. Did he have a priest by to give mephiston feel no pain?
Thanks Rod. There were no Priests in the army. That was fortunate for me although the army was pretty effective without them. Apparently I can beat Blood Angels when they don't have FNP Mephiston, Dante, and Sanguine Guard.
Ailaros wrote:
Amerikon wrote:Let me add, that Sisters can Scout up a bunch of meltaguns with their Dominion squads.
Yeah, how important are these to you? Sometimes you're using them in that role and sometimes not. I used to outflank a bunch of meltaguns with al'rahem in my guard army and at first it worked wonders. Then people realised that they just needed to stay away from the board edges on turn 1, and it went downhill in a hurry.
They're HUGE. I think Dominions are probably the best unit in the new list. They alleviate the biggest issue the old Witch Hunters had which was how to get your guns across the table before getting blown up.
How I use them depends on the mission and who has first turn. If I get to go first I'll usually use their scout move on the board and in general, I think it's better to keep them on the table instead of outflanking, but if your opponent has lots of guns and there's no way you can get your shots in then I'll go ahead and outflank with them. If it's an objective mission like The Emperor's Will (Capture and Control for you 5E types) then I'll almost always outflank since that will give me a good chance of getting at a distant objective.
I played this mission differently. The diagonal deployment made it hard to outflank and I thought my best chance to win was to seize the initiative and just go ape on his tanks. How sad is that? Anyway, it seemed to work out reasonably well and at the very least they put a few wounds on Meph and spared my Retributors a Turn 1 Demolisher shell.
Even if your opponent modifies his deployment to protect against outflankers that's not all bad. If you have other threats and can make sure they have LoS to the middle of his deployment zone then he has to make a tough choice about what to hide from. It also helps that the Immolator has Multi-meltas on it so 6" + 24" means I should get at least one shot on something no matter how they deploy.
Ailaros wrote:
Amerikon wrote:The Heavy Bolters are weak against flyers, since even with 4, I can't get enough shots off to reliably glance or penetrate AV11+.
Yes, but guard can. For 200 points, we get an AV14 vehicle that throws down 29 S5 shots per turn. THAT has the shots required to throw down fliers. Fliers that aren't storm ravens or vendettas...
Touche!
Farseer Tahril wrote:St. Celestine = Mephiston =
I personally Hate Mephiston with all my heart, him being the one thing that I can never get close to killing. He Rips through my army like a hurricane.
Mephiston ... Meet Karandras ... The new king of Killing like you
He is next on my 'to buy list' ... or Fire Dragons
Good game btw!
Yeah, I'm no fan of Mephiston. The new CC rules and psychic powers make him much better in this edition. In 5th Celestine actually had a shot against him in CC. Now he can cast Invisibility on himself and Hallucination on your poor unsuspecting troops. It's ugly.
2012/08/23 23:30:25
Subject: Battle Sisters at the Golden Throne GT (Game 6 of 7 vs Lamenters)
back together. I didn't take a picture but he did succeed in wiping them out.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
, but it didn't happen.
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