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So when this edition first came out a lot of us were thinking the big mek was dead and done with KFF being 5+, however I am starting to think the Big Mek still holds a great place in the ork army for a variety of reason. But I am going to challenge the lot of you boyz to prove me wrong. if you are convincing enough i might even try out the boss or weirdboy.... but good luck

1) Dakka-Fortress: A durable super killy gun platform being repaired by grot riggers, big meks, and meks inhabiting the Lootas or Burna Boy squads. Not to mention a KFF brings it to a nearly unstopable tank less approached by meltas or flanking gunfire. If you get hit in the rear its your own damn fault cause that thing shouldn't need to move. Personally I approve more of the big shootas since vehicles is a somewhat less useable tactic than in last edition (with first blood mission objectives and all) This means you could have 9 deff guns, 7 big shootas, 1 kannon and whatever the mek is carrying (i normally just keep him bare bones... it's an impressive amount of firepower no matter where you throw it and forces the enemy to deal with it. If you keep your flanks secure with boyz and your rear close to a table edge this basically makes a fortress even the Tau and IG will respect

2) Dakkagedon!: Similar to the Dakka Fortress but i can't state this enough the orks have obtained a huge amount of fire power having been forced to embrace their guns more, in spirit to this I decided to joke around with the Shokk Attack gun and found it disturbingly useful in my last 10 matches! With this edition bringing 2+ armor out of the woodwork i find people suddenly shocked to realize my orks are wiping entire terminator squad before they can make it half way across the table (unless in a land raid ). Using him and attaching him to a Big Gunz crew rarely backfires and always allows the Big mek to throw that shot on the Kannon's Toughness 7, 2 wounds +3 armor on a 2+ making him nearly untouchable to gunfire for a realitively cheap amount of points (60+ extra gretchin if you want to) also if the gun backfires it only wipes gretchin now instead of lootas or useful models (unless you roll REALLY bad) . It's a double sided sword, but it's one I have begun to realize can be mitigated in our favor through throw away units like that!

3) Kan-wall Revised: A bit of a gambit now, the low armor makes it possible to have this backfire but instead of focusing on the only 5+ i instead focus on the mass majority of battles I have started playing which are using nightfight which is literally 50% of the time! I'll take the ocassional 5+ instead of 4 from the old edition if it means in long range night fighting I can obtain 3+ instead. While it is slightly limited from last edition it still is an easily produced unstoppable wall of death in the proper circumstances especially if the enemy knows you are running orks and decides to double down on a vast number of flamers only to see a mek wall infront of him as oppossed to a wall of orks. And now with certain mission types allowing heavys to grab objectives and meks allows deff dreds to obtain objectives by being troops this means a Kan-wall can actually become extremely viable.

4) Green Wave: Footslogging is a lot more viable now as well again with first blood being nearly impossible to claim against ork numbers within the first 1-2 rounds of the game. But combine that with a KFF and two meks and the orks become a potent force no one takes lightly. surviving entire salvos of gunfire and asking for more the orks under KFF fear very little, and mostly those would be flamers and cover cutting effects at that point. if has served me immensely well in the past and that aspect hasn't changed it also makes focus fire unless against entire squads.

As I said at the start i want to hear some ideas for debate for Warbosses and Weirdboyz, i like da boss but weirdboyz i have only heard about combining with Dakkajets now which still doesn't sound that impressive to the army wide buffs a big Meks can give. The un-killable biker boss does sound real good to me, but pretty much entirely dependant on the unit driving around with him and more or less will take almost all the gunfire the enemy can muster which to me isn't the way points should be spent (i know it lets the orks get there but most noobs will rush with this badass and allow him to die early giving the enemy plenty of time to deal with the orks at a distance.)

Gimme some Zoggin ideas already!

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:So when this edition first came out a lot of us were thinking the big mek was dead and done with KFF being 5+, however I am starting to think the Big Mek still holds a great place in the ork army for a variety of reason. But I am going to challenge the lot of you boyz to prove me wrong. if you are convincing enough i might even try out the boss or weirdboy.... but good luck

1) Dakka-Fortress: A durable super killy gun platform being repaired by grot riggers, big meks, and meks inhabiting the Lootas or Burna Boy squads. Not to mention a KFF brings it to a nearly unstopable tank less approached by meltas or flanking gunfire. If you get hit in the rear its your own damn fault cause that thing shouldn't need to move. Personally I approve more of the big shootas since vehicles is a somewhat less useable tactic than in last edition (with first blood mission objectives and all) This means you could have 9 deff guns, 7 big shootas, 1 kannon and whatever the mek is carrying (i normally just keep him bare bones... it's an impressive amount of firepower no matter where you throw it and forces the enemy to deal with it. If you keep your flanks secure with boyz and your rear close to a table edge this basically makes a fortress even the Tau and IG will respect

Agree, these have been working good for me, too. Running them with shoota boyz also works ok, too. Why 9 deff guns though? You can get 12 + 3 meks, I personally would skip on the meks though, as battlewagons are much less likely to get wrecked than exploded, a single big mek will be able to prevent wrecking just fine.

2) Dakkagedon!: Similar to the Dakka Fortress but i can't state this enough the orks have obtained a huge amount of fire power having been forced to embrace their guns more, in spirit to this I decided to joke around with the Shokk Attack gun and found it disturbingly useful in my last 10 matches! With this edition bringing 2+ armor out of the woodwork i find people suddenly shocked to realize my orks are wiping entire terminator squad before they can make it half way across the table (unless in a land raid ). Using him and attaching him to a Big Gunz crew rarely backfires and always allows the Big mek to throw that shot on the Kannon's Toughness 7, 2 wounds +3 armor on a 2+ making him nearly untouchable to gunfire for a realitively cheap amount of points (60+ extra gretchin if you want to) also if the gun backfires it only wipes gretchin now instead of lootas or useful models (unless you roll REALLY bad) . It's a double sided sword, but it's one I have begun to realize can be mitigated in our favor through throw away units like that!

Looks like a good idea to me. I haven't put a SAG with kannons in 6th yet though.

3) Kan-wall Revised: A bit of a gambit now, the low armor makes it possible to have this backfire but instead of focusing on the only 5+ i instead focus on the mass majority of battles I have started playing which are using nightfight which is literally 50% of the time! I'll take the ocassional 5+ instead of 4 from the old edition if it means in long range night fighting I can obtain 3+ instead. While it is slightly limited from last edition it still is an easily produced unstoppable wall of death in the proper circumstances especially if the enemy knows you are running orks and decides to double down on a vast number of flamers only to see a mek wall infront of him as oppossed to a wall of orks. And now with certain mission types allowing heavys to grab objectives and meks allows deff dreds to obtain objectives by being troops this means a Kan-wall can actually become extremely viable.

The real problem for kan walls are all those marines having krak grenades for free. I agree that they are still fairly resilient to shooting (especially during the night), but when you start losing kanz to scouts, tactical squads and devastators, the "wall" isn't as good as it used to be. In addition, those vindicators that start popping up everywhere punch big holes in kan walls, a semi-lucky shot can kill two kanz at once. Against other xenos who don't get a krak grenade each, the kan wall doesn work as good as before, but stil ok

4) Green Wave: Footslogging is a lot more viable now as well again with first blood being nearly impossible to claim against ork numbers within the first 1-2 rounds of the game. But combine that with a KFF and two meks and the orks become a potent force no one takes lightly. surviving entire salvos of gunfire and asking for more the orks under KFF fear very little, and mostly those would be flamers and cover cutting effects at that point. if has served me immensely well in the past and that aspect hasn't changed it also makes focus fire unless against entire squads.

On the other hand, the massive nerf to multi-assault basically turns every boyz mob into a death-star like unit. Unless you want your entire mob ground down by two units of puny tactical marines you can kill only one unit per turn, unlike before. In addition, a road-block unit sporting four flamers or similar can cause massive casualties to any mob. In my opinion footslogging lists are only great if they attempt shoot-outs, which means more investment in lootaz and kannons than boyz. Simply marching 180 boyz down the field is nowhere as viable as it used to be.

As I said at the start i want to hear some ideas for debate for Warbosses and Weirdboyz, i like da boss but weirdboyz i have only heard about combining with Dakkajets now which still doesn't sound that impressive to the army wide buffs a big Meks can give. The un-killable biker boss does sound real good to me, but pretty much entirely dependant on the unit driving around with him and more or less will take almost all the gunfire the enemy can muster which to me isn't the way points should be spent (i know it lets the orks get there but most noobs will rush with this badass and allow him to die early giving the enemy plenty of time to deal with the orks at a distance.)

Gimme some Zoggin ideas already!

I've played a lot with weirdboyz lately, double warphead, single warphead, Zogwort or even just cheap weird boyz. In the end, the result was always the same. Unless you really roll two or three perfect results on the chart, your warphead is not going to make his points back. Even in a game when I rolled perfectly (first two turns melta, then Waagh!, Waagh! again, then the blast) I had the feeling that a warboss or a SAG mek would have been much better. Auto-hitting meltas sound great - until you realize that cover and nightfighting applies. Same for the space-marine-disintegrating blast. The power weapon is not going to happen (how often are you locked in combat during your shooting phase?). Both warpath and Waagh! are useless if you are not charging that turn, or your planes are off the table. 'ere we go is nice in theory, but in practice, you don't want your boyz+HQ on your opponent's objective while being unable to charge that turn. Plus you have a chance of getting 'ere we go and scattering/mishapping or simply exploding during the last game turn, making them even worse at holding the objective they teleported on. Not to mention that opponents tend to focus on the warphead's mob - once it starts dropping below 10 boyz, you're failing your psy tests a lot. Zogwort is somewhat reliable, if you bring him just to squig opposing ICs and use him like a warboss. He packs quite a punch in close combat, and people don't want to challenge him. Anything he rolls on the table should be considered a bonus.

As for the warboss - he doesn't need a unit to drive around with him. Simply put him in a regular unit of boyz. Thanks to premeasuring, you can simply check if something within 15" of him needs a punch in the face, and then unattach him and charge something else than the boyz. Thanks to T6, he can even take many walkers and MCs head-on. Otherwise, simply have him shoot his dakka-gunz (all sixes are precision shots) or show those PF-sergeants trying to challenge your nob who's boss. Note that the challenge mechanic works for the warboss in most cases. A unit of five space marines can easily be charged and challenged - in which case you can be sure to either fight without the guy holding the dangerous weapon, or fight him alone while the others are forced to watch.

Foot slogging no longer is that amazing. However, boys need the kff, they die too easily otherwise. Yes, it is worse than cover saves from 5th edition but it is all you got.

Mech doesn't need kff really any more, which is nice.

I would never put SAG with lootas or kannons. You want the SAG to target its own things and not affect other units.
Put a SAG with some MANz as they allow him to walk and shoot.

The battlewagon ideas are a little weak. When those things die, they have side armour av12 so they will die, st4 attacks will burn through the lootas inside.

Take a SAG, attach 30 boys with nob that has PK and boss pole, sit on objtective, laugh all game long, still win.

A KFF works still, but it's better to be a smart player and use your field and that fancy 25% cover thing.

juraigamer wrote:A KFF works still, but it's better to be a smart player and use your field and that fancy 25% cover thing.

Obscuring 25% of the AV12 side of a Battlewagon is no easy task after turn 2.

The 1500 list I've been working on has two Big Meks. It has two Dakkawagons with Lootas and one with a KFF Big Mek. The KKF may not help keep the BWs alive as long as it used to, but it does give the Lootas on board a 5+ cover save from the Explosion result. I also use the Big Mek to bring LD 8 and a Bosspole to keep them from running.

I have also been joining a SAG Big Mek to a maxed out Kannon Battery on a Skyshield. T7, 4+ Invul, LD 8, and the Bosspole works on Gretchin for 1 Grot rather than the D3 from a Squig Hound. I still take the Runtherd for the ablative wound and to put in Challenges.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:Obscuring 25% of the AV12 side of a Battlewagon is no easy task after turn 2.

I disagree. You can easily plan your route across the table to have the most exposed side of your column 25% hidden. All other battlewagon sides should be hidden by other battlewagons. You even get 25% cover from warbikers, koptaz or a trukk. I still think that battlewagons are hard-pressed at 1500, I rather run footsloggers supported by as many planes and lootaz as I can fit right now. I'm still looking for the perfect list right now, but it definitely works better than cramming three or four battlewagons without support in there.

The 1500 list I've been working on has two Big Meks. It has two Dakkawagons with Lootas and one with a KFF Big Mek. The KKF may not help keep the BWs alive as long as it used to, but it does give the Lootas on board a 5+ cover save from the Explosion result. I also use the Big Mek to bring LD 8 and a Bosspole to keep them from running.

Yup, that works great, I'm doing the same. Currently, I'm experimenting with running loota units forward behind my boyz. No results worth mentioning yet though (neither positive nor negative).

I have also been joining a SAG Big Mek to a maxed out Kannon Battery on a Skyshield. T7, 4+ Invul, LD 8, and the Bosspole works on Gretchin for 1 Grot rather than the D3 from a Squig Hound. I still take the Runtherd for the ablative wound and to put in Challenges.

Why waste points on a skyshield? An aegis defense line is just as many points, with an option for a gun for more fire power or a vox caster if you rely on planes. A skyshield doesn't have the option to improve your save to 2+ when diving for cover, and don't fall to the illusion of the invul save helping combat - enemy models on the skyshield will get 4++ saves, too.

Jidmah wrote:Why waste points on a skyshield? An aegis defense line is just as many points, with an option for a gun for more fire power or a vox caster if you rely on planes. A skyshield doesn't have the option to improve your save to 2+ when diving for cover, and don't fall to the illusion of the invul save helping combat - enemy models on the skyshield will get 4++ saves, too.

The Skyshield is only 25 more points than the ADL. I have no illusions about a Mob of Gretchin surviving combat at all. The 4++ is only for shooting attacks, and the Battery Mob reverts to majority T2 since the Artillery pieces are ignored in CC. What I expect to save them from combat is the 20 Mob of Shoota Boyz camped under the Skyshield and sitting on the Objective I place there 4 out of 6 times. The big difference for me between the 4+ and 4++ Fortifications is the number of Thunderfire Cannons and IG tanks that ignore cover that have been showing up lately. Those 25 points are well worth it. As good as it is, I would also rather have 4 more Lootas for the same price as the Quad Gun, which can be singled out by shooting.

They're not as good for obscuring vehicles as they were in 5th, but they're still good. A 5+ cover save on models that wouldn't have one otherwise is still good, IMO.

wtwlf123 wrote:They're not as good for obscuring vehicles as they were in 5th, but they're still good. A 5+ cover save on models that wouldn't have one otherwise is still good, IMO.

Have you found that your vehicles have often lacked 5+ cover? I have found it just quite rare whereas for boys it now happens all the time.
I recommend death rollers to just cut through scenery so can grab the cover save.