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Right, cut a long story short. He killed my entire army (65 guys of various stripes, five tanks). I killed 11 guys and a wave serpent.

I couldn't counter his 'move 18, fire two guns' fast skimmers (he had five of these). I couldn't counter his Init 6 Harlequins with kisses, he waded through an entire squad of GH's like they were nothing (I didn't even get to hit back...all 9 + WG gone), and then murdered my WG terminators too. He just kept fortuning them (the Harlequins) again and again. I would have countered this with my RP's...except they were both dead to Perils of the Warp by turn 2 because of Ulthan (unbelievable for 210pts). Yes, I should have taken Wolf Priests instead.

My Longfangs did ok - until they all got shot in the head by fire prisms. They never actually managed to kill anything. I took the final Hull Point off the one grav tank I did kill with a power sword!

My Greyhunters are dead as soon as they're out of their transports, they get massacred. Not just against Eldar actually, against everyone. Apparently they're the best troops in the game...not when I play with them! What they do is 1) Hide in transport 2) Get shot out of transport 3) Squad gone.

I had seven lascannons, 3 missile launchers, 7 plasma guns...and I didn't make a dent. I didn't kill one squad outright. At one point 10 GH's unloaded into 4 dire avengers...and killed 1. This is with 20 shots!

Everyone says they're squiggy - not with jink cover saves and re-rollable +2 cover saves (pathfinders) they're not...Everytime I think I've killed something some new weird and wonderful rule crops up that basically should just read 'Nahh Nahh Nahh NAHHHHHHH' under it's entry :p.

Help me out guys. People are saying Space Wolves are amazing. I'm getting my arse handed to me, every game. I've won 2 games in recent memory (see: the last two years). I'm starting to tot up how much I'd get on ebay for my models...

Ah, puts a smile on my face when eldar do that to someone...


ANYWAY!

How was he moving 18" and firing? Is this some new rule?

How many points was the game, what did he run and what was your list?


Von Chogg

This sounds similar to the last time I played wolves, although I was on foot and he managed to eff up my wraithlords bad.

Harlequins are probably the best assault unit in the game right now, and with fortune they can be tough customers to deal with. In assault, these hit like a freight train and usually pinkmist the defenders before they can be hit back. Last game I chewed through a longfang blob with a wolf priest, 2 units of hunters and a rhino. I lost 3 clowns total. Beat these with flamers, as those 5++ clown suits will fall, even to fortune.

Rune priests are something I absolutely fear, as they have the only ability to stop my fortune from going up. Those runic weapons can be hidden inside a raider and if I lose fortune, goodbye clowns. Do not cast any powers so long as the farseer is alive, you are just asking to die. Also spam wolf tail talismans to prevent from getting doomed or some other crazy elf magic bull

You sound like you had some seriously bad luck. My dire avengers may as well be made of wet cardboard, I lose them to grat shooting.

His serpents make the Lascannon only slightly more effective than missile launchers due to the energy field, and outright negate melta. Missiles are the best way to pop eldar tanks.

Focus fire on priority targets. Things like fortuned clowns, pathfinders or our MC's are just tricks to get people to shoot at them.

In assault, everything but harlequins will get rolled. Banshees can probably beat you too, but those are pretty bad these days.

I actually find lone wolves to be a huge pain in my . Last game an 85 point model assaulted and killed a wraithlord(THSS toting) and then I had to kill it and gave him a point! They rock face in challenges and are cheap.

Assault our tanks, if you can catch them. A PF will easily wreck us combined with krak grenade support.

Von Chogg wrote:Ah, puts a smile on my face when eldar do that to someone...


ANYWAY!

How was he moving 18" and firing? Is this some new rule?

How many points was the game, what did he run and what was your list?


Von Chogg

He must have been moving 12 - he can move a fast vehicle at 'cruising' speed and then fire two weapons. He is an honest player so we can put that down to my faulty memory.

He had Ulthan, 9 Wraithguard, Harlequins with all three of their specialist guys, you know, death jester etc. Two DA squads in grav tanks (can you tell I don't know the eldar codex well?), some fire dragons, two fire prisms, and a pathfinder unit. I had the following:


HQ Options

1) Rune Priest, Runic Axe, Plasma Pistol, Runic Armour
Power Set: Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf

2) Rune Priest, Runic Sword, Runic Armour, Wolf Tail Talisman.
Power Set: Divination (Prescience, plus rolled for power).

Troop Options

1) 5 Greyhunters, Flamer, Power Axe, MotW
Lascannon/TL Plasma Razorback

2) 5 Greyhunters, Melta, Power Sword, MotW
Lascannon/TL Plasma Razorback

3) 9 Greyhunters, Melta, Power Sword, Wolf Standard, MotW
Rhino

4) 9 Greyhunters, Melta, Power Sword, Wolf Standard, MotW
Rhino

5) 10 Greyhunters, Plasma Gun * 2, Power Axe, MotW .
6) Rhino


Elites Choices

1) 5 Wolfguard, Combi Melta/Plasma, Plasma Pistol, 2 Power Swords, Wolfclaw, Power Fist

2) 4 Wolfguard Terminators, 2 Wolfclaws, Power Axe, Power Lance.

3) 6 Wolfscouts, Sniper Rifles * 6

Heavy Support Choices

1) 5 Longfangs, 4 Lascannons

2) 5 Longfangs, 3 Missile Launcher, 1 Lascannon




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dr. Serling wrote:This sounds similar to the last time I played wolves, although I was on foot and he managed to eff up my wraithlords bad.

Harlequins are probably the best assault unit in the game right now, and with fortune they can be tough customers to deal with. In assault, these hit like a freight train and usually pinkmist the defenders before they can be hit back. Last game I chewed through a longfang blob with a wolf priest, 2 units of hunters and a rhino. I lost 3 clowns total. Beat these with flamers, as those 5++ clown suits will fall, even to fortune.

This I can believe. They were horrendously effective. He ran them right new to Ulthan in the Wraithguard unit, so I was scared of getting to close to those wraith cannon things.

Rune priests are something I absolutely fear, as they have the only ability to stop my fortune from going up. Those runic weapons can be hidden inside a raider and if I lose fortune, goodbye clowns. Do not cast any powers so long as the farseer is alive, you are just asking to die. Also spam wolf tail talismans to prevent from getting doomed or some other crazy elf magic bull

Yes, I shouldn't have even tried. They both ended up dribbling on the floor. Permanently.

You sound like you had some seriously bad luck. My dire avengers may as well be made of wet cardboard, I lose them to grat shooting.


I did have some pretty poor rolls at key moments, admittedly.

His serpents make the Lascannon only slightly more effective than missile launchers due to the energy field, and outright negate melta. Missiles are the best way to pop eldar tanks.

I thought this once I remembered about his ' strength over 8 counts as 8' rule - we were at the table at that point :p.

Focus fire on priority targets. Things like fortuned clowns, pathfinders or our MC's are just tricks to get people to shoot at them.

We were playing 'Big Guns Never Tire'. I he did distract me from those Fire Prisms quite a bit.

In assault, everything but harlequins will get rolled. Banshees can probably beat you too, but those are pretty bad these days.


I never get there. Not just against Eldar actually, but against everyone. My Greyhunters just get shot to gak as soon as they're outside of the transports.

I actually find lone wolves to be a huge pain in my . Last game an 85 point model assaulted and killed a wraithlord(THSS toting) and then I had to kill it and gave him a point! They rock face in challenges and are cheap.

I'll give it a go.

Assault our tanks, if you can catch them. A PF will easily wreck us combined with krak grenade support.

I did kill one of his wave serpents by hitting it with a power sword lol, so I can see this working.

Thanks man, I'll give it a go. I need to not play for a few weeks though, get my spirits back up. I think I need drop pods too. Rhino's just don't get you where you need to be.

I think Eldar are as strong as ever and the Eldar/ Dark Eldar allies are obnoxiously good. Your biggest focus should be the Fire Prisms and Pathfinders. DA are like squishy tac marines, although they usually get fortuned and way less die. Wraithguard with a Wraithseer is also scary and they should be neutralized.

Well, Lanchester's square law tells you that if he doubles his Serpents, you need four times more special or heavy weapons that are able to deal with them.
In the previous editions, I played several (better, lots of) games with mechdar vs. MEQ that had not enough S6 or higher weapons and then got massacred. This is nothing new.

Just note, he cannot move 18" with a vehicle at all, not to mind move 18" and shoot.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Just note, he cannot move 18" with a vehicle at all, not to mind move 18" and shoot.

But its possible to move a fast skimmer 18 inches in the shooting phase.

As an Eldar player that plays regularly against MEQ including Wolves, i gotta say, more shooty will win the day.

Overall, you have better/equal BS, and better saves, put that to use.
If you can setup a solid firing line backed up with some units for counter assault, you should be golden.
Trick that my opponents have started using is ignoring my tanks, shoot the crap outta my troops, and only shooting at tanks wwhen there's no other options.

Work more towards the objectives, use your cover, and unload with hugs amounts of shots. The Eldar will fall.

Just note, he cannot move 18" with a vehicle at all, not to mind move 18" and shoot.

skimmers flat out are 18" eh ? and if he has star engines he can move another 12" instead of firing to a total of 24" He can move his 12" and fire his two weapons.

wuestenfux wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Just note, he cannot move 18" with a vehicle at all, not to mind move 18" and shoot.

But its possible to move a fast skimmer 18 inches in the shooting phase.

Frecklesonfire wrote:

Just note, he cannot move 18" with a vehicle at all, not to mind move 18" and shoot.

skimmers flat out are 18" eh ? and if he has star engines he can move another 12" instead of firing to a total of 24" He can move his 12" and fire his two weapons.

Guess both of you missed the part where the OP said his opponent moved 18" and shot, meaning he obviously wasn't going Flat Out.

I thoroughly enjoy when I see my Eldar Brethren wrecking some Imperial faces.
That being said Marines have better BS then eldar do, so more dakka will beat a eldar player(usually). A good eldar player will exploit every mistake you make so try to play at your best. And hopefully the dice are in your favor.

Thanks for the responses guys, your advise makes sense, I definitely didn't have enough firepower to put down on him, and had paid too much for the stronger weapons I did have. Then I got stupid and shot lascannons at the Harles with their fortuned cover saves etc (do they get an invuln, I think they do...) because they scared the hell out of me. Most of my mid-range guns being encased in rhino's till turn 3/4 didn't help either.

My opponent wasn't moving 18 and firing, I got that wrong. He was using flat-out with some of his fast skimmers, and cruising at 12 with others.

I need to start 'synergising' my units a lot more, I let them go off on their own and they get picked apart.

I made a pretty serious error with the terrain placement too, basically we both had equal cover/terrain but I placed mine poorly, giving him good firing lines. I also shot at the Harles with my bolters...allowing them to shoot AND charge me in the subsequent phase. What else did I do wrong? Well basically everything but more will come to me.

Probably good to get beaten that hard once in a while lol.

Take the points values out of that above post immediately. That is highly against GW copyright laws.

TheCaptain wrote:Take the points values out of that above post immediately. That is highly against GW copyright laws.

I'm pretty sure you can't copyright numbers. If anything the names are what are copyrighted, not the numbers lol. Also GW don't have 'copyright laws'. The governments of various countries do. I can't see anything on the net or their site saying I can't use their points values in written communications.

I should have taken them out because they are irritating to the eye. In fact, I will do it anyways, because of that but because it will obviously make you feel better.

Another point - You do not use any psychic powers, while Eldrad Ulthran / any Farseer with Runes of Warding is alive. Doing that is pretty silly, since with 3d6 You will be getting perils most of the time and in 6th You can't save them with invul from Runic armor. So You either kill Farseers or use Rune Priests (in Rhinos) ONLY to shut down his psi-powers. Runes of Warding are the best psychic defense in the game, followed by Your humble Rune Priests . And don't try to take Eldrad out in CC, he is quite nasty.
And if You are fielding Wolf Scouts, for Emperor's sake, don't give them sniper rifles, cause that's complete waste of their abilities (they are not the Eldar Pathfinders which will be getting AP1 shot on 5+ roll to hit anyways). Give them a meltagun and use them as suicide unit which can outflank from any edge on the roll of 3+, which can be re-rolled because of the Acute Senses.

Four Lascannons is over the top as well. I'd rather give those two razorbacks to longfangs and use them as a screen for any turn 1 "surprises" - like when You have decent lines of fire, cover etc and get Your initiative stolen and SUDDENLY You have to roll a lot of saves for Your Long Fangs. Just park those Razorbacks in front of them, on Your turn drive away and open fire with Long Fangs and Razors (if they are still on the table).

Well, I'd take 3 squads of Long Fangs equipped with missile launchers. They can handle Serpents quite well.

Yeah, it's always best to have more Long Fangs, since as soon as they are out, the opponent only needs to glance the Rhinos till death and then SW are not that scary anymore.

As said earlier, you need dakka. Rifleman dreads (2x tl autocannons) can easily tear open our tanks and can try to hammer down wraithguard.
Also swap the lascannons on your longfangs to missile launchers, cheaper and more flexible.

You could always try to give a land raider to your termies. For eldar AV14 can really be a pain to crack. Yes we have lances, but they just cost too much. Fire dragons also hurt them, but eliminate their transport first. Then just keep out of their way.

Ezki wrote:As said earlier, you need dakka. Rifleman dreads (2x tl autocannons) can easily tear open our tanks and can try to hammer down wraithguard.
Also swap the lascannons on your longfangs to missile launchers, cheaper and more flexible.

You could always try to give a land raider to your termies. For eldar AV14 can really be a pain to crack. Yes we have lances, but they just cost too much. Fire dragons also hurt them, but eliminate their transport first. Then just keep out of their way.

Fire Dragons work nicely against AV 14 tanks. Even a small unit of 5 should be able to do it.
Generally, I'd take two FD units working in tandem. If one squad cannot destroy the tank, the other should do it. Otherwise, the second squad could take on the passengers.

I think the biggest problem is that this is a bad list to take against Eldar in general. You have most of your points tied up in short-ranged units, which normally is just fine but against Eldar they can (and by the sounds of it, already have) stayed out of range of your force and been able to concentrate on a unit or two at a time.

Now that you know how dangerous the Harlequins are, you can at least try to put them down with massed, close range bolter fire. Just pour the shots into them, those advanced cover saves can only save them for so long.

As for your Long Fangs - it sounds as though your opponent recognised these as a threat after they fired and cleverly took steps to take them out. You need to counter this, by using the afore-mentioned trick with a blocking Rhino to keep them out of line-of-sight, or just with cover on the whole.

And, yes - Wolf Scouts with sniper rifles is not a great idea. Though if you're that set on taking them, use them to try and pick out characters with those placed shots on a 6 (but bearing Look out Sir! in mind, don't rely on them to do so either).

Tehjonny wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:Take the points values out of that above post immediately. That is highly against GW copyright laws.

I'm pretty sure you can't copyright numbers. If anything the names are what are copyrighted, not the numbers lol. Also GW don't have 'copyright laws'. The governments of various countries do. I can't see anything on the net or their site saying I can't use their points values in written communications.

I should have taken them out because they are irritating to the eye. In fact, I will do it anyways, because of that but because it will obviously make you feel better.

Your condescension is noted, big guy, but yeah, you can copyright numbers, and GW has. Posting point values from their Codices is illegal. Ask anyone, or maybe do some reading of forum rules next time? Welcome to Dakka.

TheCaptain wrote:

Tehjonny wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:Take the points values out of that above post immediately. That is highly against GW copyright laws.

I'm pretty sure you can't copyright numbers. If anything the names are what are copyrighted, not the numbers lol. Also GW don't have 'copyright laws'. The governments of various countries do. I can't see anything on the net or their site saying I can't use their points values in written communications.

I should have taken them out because they are irritating to the eye. In fact, I will do it anyways, because of that but because it will obviously make you feel better.

Your condescension is noted, big guy, but yeah, you can copyright numbers, and GW has. Posting point values from their Codices is illegal. Ask anyone, or maybe do some reading of forum rules next time? Welcome to Dakka.

individual/wargear points costs are a no-no, over-all/unit points costs are fine, please double check your information before jumpin all over some one

dpal666 wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:

Tehjonny wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:Take the points values out of that above post immediately. That is highly against GW copyright laws.

I'm pretty sure you can't copyright numbers. If anything the names are what are copyrighted, not the numbers lol. Also GW don't have 'copyright laws'. The governments of various countries do. I can't see anything on the net or their site saying I can't use their points values in written communications.

I should have taken them out because they are irritating to the eye. In fact, I will do it anyways, because of that but because it will obviously make you feel better.

Your condescension is noted, big guy, but yeah, you can copyright numbers, and GW has. Posting point values from their Codices is illegal. Ask anyone, or maybe do some reading of forum rules next time? Welcome to Dakka.

individual/wargear points costs are a no-no, over-all/unit points costs are fine, please double check your information before jumpin all over some one

MR CAPTAIN, you sir, are an absolute tool. must feel like such an idiot right about now. Mr Copyright Lawyer himself. Loving your silence after getting your arse handed to you.

 PutZi wrote:

dpal666 wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:

Tehjonny wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:Take the points values out of that above post immediately. That is highly against GW copyright laws.

I'm pretty sure you can't copyright numbers. If anything the names are what are copyrighted, not the numbers lol. Also GW don't have 'copyright laws'. The governments of various countries do. I can't see anything on the net or their site saying I can't use their points values in written communications.

I should have taken them out because they are irritating to the eye. In fact, I will do it anyways, because of that but because it will obviously make you feel better.

Your condescension is noted, big guy, but yeah, you can copyright numbers, and GW has. Posting point values from their Codices is illegal. Ask anyone, or maybe do some reading of forum rules next time? Welcome to Dakka.

individual/wargear points costs are a no-no, over-all/unit points costs are fine, please double check your information before jumpin all over some one

MR CAPTAIN, you sir, are an absolute tool. must feel like such an idiot right about now. Mr Copyright Lawyer himself. Loving your silence after getting your arse handed to you.

Says the guy who dragged a thread from the depths just to flame someone. The reason he was silent is because this thread had died and was gone from page 1.