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The player had a Doom Scythe against my Razorwing Jetfighter,
So he used his first attack and shot it down,
then he used his doom beam? or whatever that draws a line on my venoms which were in a different direction...

Not sure if that is allowed or not because when I played with my friend he said my razorwing must shoot its dark lances and missles at the same unit...

Everything has to shoot its weapons at the same unit, unless it has an exception - like the Storm Raven's Power Of The Machine Spirit.
Flyers in general do not have an exception, and I'm 99% sure that the Doom Sythe doesn't either, so your enemy was wrong.

You have to fire the rest of the Doom Scythe's weapons at a target hit by the death ray.

So my friend was right then~

After the game I reread the rules for it, so the DoomScythe is supposed to roll 3D6" for the line right? and there's no thickness to it right?
I don't remember what he said but he said that the line was 9" thick or something...

Thank god he's supposed to only shoot one unit...he took down 3 Venoms with that one hit...

Makutsu wrote:Thank god he's supposed to only shoot one unit...he took down 3 Venoms with that one hit...

With a doom scythe's death ray he actually can do that, so long as the Twin-linked tesla destructors shoots at one of the units that was under the line.

Yes. The Death ray beam can be fired through multiple targets. In this case though, your friend would have declared that he was using Skyfire to fire the Destructors at your Razorwing jet with full BS (otherwise he was snap firing). If this is the case, then his Death ray beam would not have hit the ground targets and your ground troops would be safe.

If he did not declare Skyfire, then hes Snap Shooting at the flier with twin-linked Destrcutors and firing the Death ray at the ground, leaving him apt to hit the ground targets.


So, question is then, did he declare Skyfire at the start or not? If he didnt say anything, then hes firing his Doom Scythe like normal. :3

It was the player, my friend and I.

I played my Razorwing by shooting everything at 1 unit...

Well he didn't declare Skyfire because I am not too familiar with the rules either...

So basically what happened was he shot the Twin-linked tesla destructors at the Razorwing and it wrecked.

Then he said he marked my Venom's Hull tip to another Venom's Hull crossing over 3 Venoms...
and boom all 3 were dead...

Proper order would be for him to fire the Death Ray... roll 3d6 for length and hit whatever he can hit . Then he must fire his remaining weapons at one of the targets hit by the Death Ray.

So if your flier was hit by the Death Ray it would have been legal.

Only catch there is for the beam to hit the flier, it must have been a Skyfire shot. Since his friend didnt declare Skyfire, its assumed that he is firing at the ground units with his attacks. Those attacks though may still be fired at fliers but without the firers normal Ballistic Skill and the beam would be fired at the ground units.

If your friend used his normal Ballistic Skill on the flier, then he was wrong.

Ok, so the player was wrong and my friend was right~

At that point all his troops were gone so we didn't notice it...

His order that he shot was the telsa cannons first then the Death Ray...

So I guess next time I'll pay more attention..

For the death ray, you follow this sequence:

Declare starting point of the ray and direction, roll for distance, decalre target for tesla cannons, and then roll as normal.

juraigamer wrote:For the death ray, you follow this sequence:

Declare starting point of the ray and direction, roll for distance, decalre target for tesla cannons, and then roll as normal.

True, but nothing says you have to fire the death ray first, which is really what is in question here.

Actually scratch what I said below, the Doom Scythe can never hit air and ground targets in the same shooting phase. Well, the Arc rule would, but not with the standard weapons. Since you can't snapshot the death ray you can only hit air or ground with it and you "must" target a unit hit by the death ray with the tesla destructor. So, ya...while you could hit 2 different targets, you can not hit ground and air in the same shooting phase.

*Basically, if you fire the DR first you'll never be able to hit air and ground targets at the same time. But if you fire the tesla destructor first you can snap shot air targets with it and target "the ground" with the death ray (since you do not declare a target unit with the weapon).* -Disregard

Except the "target" must be a unit that the death ray passes over.

I am curious about the Death Ray.

The Death Ray says the every model touched by the beam suffers a hit......

My question is this, models on a chariot, for example, a catacomb command barge with an O'Lord on it; the vehicle is open topped and so if the Death Ray beam cuts across the middle of it, the beam will touch the O'Lord riding it as well as the chariot. Does the O'Lord as well as the CCB suffer a strength 10 AP 1 hit?

40k-noob wrote:I am curious about the Death Ray.

The Death Ray says the every model touched by the beam suffers a hit......

My question is this, models on a chariot, for example, a catacomb command barge with an O'Lord on it. The vehicle is open topped and so if the Death Ray beam cuts across the middle of it, the beam will touch the O'Lord riding it. Does the O'Lord as well as the CCB suffer a strength 10 AP 1 hit?

No, because you can't target embarked models at all which means you can't allocate wounds to them that they didn't cause themselves (perils, gets hot, etc).

Same reason you can't hit models embarked on a storm raven with the death ray.


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Happyjew wrote:Except the "target" must be a unit that the death ray passes over.

I know, I edited my post.

No, just the CCB. You could however, allocate the HP loss to the Overlord with Symbiotic Repair. :3

Death Ray does not require Skyfire. It simply states that it hits every unit under the line. It is not a normal shooting attack, nor is it a template or blast.

No Im guessing he shot you down with the tesla destructor and then fired his beam weapon at a different unit? If in fact this is what he did its WRONG. The wording from the codex he can fire the beam at ground targets , hit multiple targets with it then choose which target he shoots with the tesla destructor that where hit with the beam weapon.. NO split fire

There is currently a loophole is the Death Ray as it doesn't have a "target", but rather has two points it draws a line between and hits all models underneath. This means that both flies and ground models could both be hit by the beam without any issues, except it's rather hard to do.

The first point must be a spot "on the battlefield" therfor goes on the ground within range of the weapon and within the arc of the weapon. The second point is placed "anywhere" within 3D6 and therefor can be shot upward in the air to get over top of a flier making it "underneath the line" (flier's base doesn't count). However, hitting that flier and other units will require some hefty lining up.

Fragile wrote:Death Ray does not require Skyfire. It simply states that it hits every unit under the line. It is not a normal shooting attack, nor is it a template or blast.

So, here's the thing with that...the hard to hit rule says "shots resolved" not shots targeting to to-hit rolls. Since you can not resolve snap shots with a weapon that doesn't require BS to hit you can't hit the flier with the beam without using skyfire.


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Lungpickle wrote:No Im guessing he shot you down with the tesla destructor and then fired his beam weapon at a different unit? If in fact this is what he did its WRONG. The wording from the codex he can fire the beam at ground targets , hit multiple targets with it then choose which target he shoots with the tesla destructor that where hit with the beam weapon.. NO split fire

Actually all the shots are supposed to be resolved at the same time so technically he never should have blown it up before firing the death ray in the first place.


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BlueDagger wrote:There is currently a loophole is the Death Ray as it doesn't have a "target", but rather has two points it draws a line between and hits all models underneath. This means that both flies and ground models could both be hit by the beam without any issues, except it's rather hard to do.

The first point must be a spot "on the battlefield" therfor goes on the ground within range of the weapon and within the arc of the weapon. The second point is placed "anywhere" within 3D6 and therefor can be shot upward in the air to get over top of a flier making it "underneath the line" (flier's base doesn't count). However, hitting that flier and other units will require some hefty lining up.

Nothing in hard to hit says anything about "targeting" only about resolving shots, which you can not do as a snap shot for the death ray.
Well, if you go "up over the flier" then you're not making a straight line, which is breaking the rule of the weapon.
One could also argue that since it says "on the battlefield" and fliers are "above the battlefield" that you couldn't shoot them at all with it, but I'd say you can if you skyfire. Just draw the line accordingly and if it passes over the flier (or fliers) during the skyfire shot then it hits, but you ignore any other models (except skimmers and FMC) under the line.

K so your would merely state that the deathray is always firing as skyfire if you are intending to hit a flier. Non-flier models will be hit as normal since the codex mere states that models under the line are hit and not the "resolved against" hard to hit has.

Last time I checked a point on the ground and a point placed midair above over a flier would be considered a straight line (which you then go on to say the exact some thing). Since the second point is placed anywhere as oppose to on the battlefield it's very feasible to have a flier under the line.

On any note I hope the Doom Scythe gets plenty of FAQ love very soon.

Yet if the Doom Scythe is firing as Skyfire to hit with the Death Ray, the non-flier units under the line dont count as the model doesnt have the Interceptor Special Rule.

They do as per the necron codex. Specific rule vs General rule.

BlueDagger wrote:K so your would merely state that the deathray is always firing as skyfire if you are intending to hit a flier. Non-flier models will be hit as normal since the codex mere states that models under the line are hit and not the "resolved against" hard to hit has.

Last time I checked a point on the ground and a point placed midair above over a flier would be considered a straight line (which you then go on to say the exact some thing). Since the second point is placed anywhere as oppose to on the battlefield it's very feasible to have a flier under the line.

On any note I hope the Doom Scythe gets plenty of FAQ love very soon.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

And there's really no FAQ needed on this, you either skyfire to hit fliers/FMC or you don't so you can hit ground targets.


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BlueDagger wrote:They do as per the necron codex. Specific rule vs General rule.

Nothing in the codex says they have interceptor. Nothing in the FAQ says they have interceptor. They don't have interceptor. You can't snap shot the death ray. You cannot hit ground and air at the same time with this weapon.

Death Ray Entry wrote: ... Then, draw a straight line between the two points. Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.

So at this point you have a special rule that states models under the line are hit.

Hard to Hit wrote:Shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resoved as Snap Shots

You now have permission to "resolve" a shot against the flier.

Skyfire wrote:Unless it also has the Interceptor special rule, it can only fire snap shots against other targets

Death Ray doesn't technically "target" ground units it merely hits them and unlike HtH it doesn't' state that hits "resolved" against them must be snap shots.

So you now get in this situation where you have permission to hit a flier, but nothing preventing you from hitting ground units because you don't technically target them. For similar mechanic reference check the FAQ on JotWW where the first model hit is the "target" everything else is merely in the way and gets hit.

Are you ignoring where I say that "weapons that do not use BS can not be fired as snap shots"? So, no, you "cannot" hit a flier with a snap shot or a ground target with a snap shot with the death ray. You MUST declare skyfire or not to hit the relevant target.

Nothing in the HtH rule says you have to target anything.
The "skyfire" rule says that shots against ground targets are resolved as snap shots. End of story.

JoTWW doesn't work on vehicles anyway so that one doesn't matter. The flier would be the target for the unit but JotWW would have no effect on it. The same as if you shot a bolter at a storm raven. It can't DO anything, but that's now your target for the unit.

Please state for me where Death Ray "targets" a unit. It merely hits units under the line. Skyfire with out Interceptor States that shots targeting other units are snap fire. Death Ray never targets them, but merely hits them.

Now if you didn't declare skyfire you cannot hit a flyer because it states you cannot "resolve" the shot as anything but snapshot. Thus you cannot resolve the hit process against a flyer.

Where do you start drawing the line though?
Anywhere? or the unit that you have targeted with your telsa gun?

You draw the line from a point anywhere within the weapon range to the 3d6 max. Then "If the vehicles other weaponry is fired in the same shooting phase, it must be fired at one of the units hit by they death ray."

So you use your Death Ray first, then shoot at something hit by it(by the line, not a successful hit)

BlueDagger wrote:Please state for me where Death Ray "targets" a unit. It merely hits units under the line. Skyfire with out Interceptor States that shots targeting other units are snap fire. Death Ray never targets them, but merely hits them.

Now if you didn't declare skyfire you cannot hit a flyer because it states you cannot "resolve" the shot as anything but snapshot. Thus you cannot resolve the hit process against a flyer.

No, you're not listening. Skyfire, hard to hit, and snap shots do not say they require you to target a unit. That is my whole point, "targeting" is not necessary. Not with the death ray anyway. You still have to target with the tesla destructor but you can not hit air and ground in the same shooting phase. You are not allowed to resolve shots against ground units if you're skyfiring the death ray and you're not allowed to hit air units if you're not skyfiring the death ray. This is because you are not allowed to 'fire' the death ray as a snap shot which means you can not resolve it as a snap shot.

Makutsu wrote:Where do you start drawing the line though?
Anywhere? or the unit that you have targeted with your telsa gun?

Anywhere on the battlefield within 12" of the flyer. Again, it doesn't matter what you declare first as all shooting happens at the same time, though you should resolve the range of the death ray first before choosing a target for the tesla destructor since you're required to have that weapon shoot at a unit the DR hit.


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Fragile wrote:You draw the line from a point anywhere within the weapon range to the 3d6 max. Then "If the vehicles other weaponry is fired in the same shooting phase, it must be fired at one of the units hit by they death ray."

So you use your Death Ray first, then shoot at something hit by it(by the line, not a successful hit)

Well, really anything the line touches (depending on skyfiring or not) is hit, so you actually mean "not a successful wounding hit".