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*Edited - New List*

After my 1st game with 6th edition, I learned that I did not have nearly enough troops and not enough firepower to deal with the enemy. Mixing CC and shooty terminators didn't work as well as I thought it would. The game was close through turn 5, but in end the end, I was wiped from the board. So this time I went with a pure shooty list with a counter assault unit.

HQ
Belial (TH/SS)

Elite
Dreadnought (TL-LC/ML)

Troop #1
3x SB/PF
1x AC
1x SB/CF (Sergeant)

Troop #2
3x SB/BF
1x AC
1x SB/CF (Sergeant)

Troop #3
3x SB/PF
1x CML
1x SB/PW(Sergeant)

Troop #4
3x SB/PF
1x CML
1x SB/PW(Sergeant)

Troop #5
1x Apothecary (TH/SS)
3x TH/SS
1x LC (Sergeant)

Obviously a foot-slogger list, but I will toy with the idea of using DWA with Squad #5 (and a AC squad) if the opportunity presents itself.

*Old List*

The concept of this list is to provide as much flexibility as possible, which I feel is the DW strength. Outside of my one true assault squad (Troop #4), I tried to give the squads the tools to deal with any contingency. I also only opted for one LR as I think more boots on the ground is more important with 6th edition.

HQ
Belial (TH/SS)
I-C in TDA

Troop #1
2x TH/SS
1x SB/PF
1x CML (SB/PF)
1x SB/CF (Sergeant)

Troop #2
2x TH/SS
1x SB/PF
1x CML (SB/PF)
1x SB/CF (Sergeant)

Troop #3
2x LC
1x SB/PF
1x AC
1x LC (Sergeant)

Troop #4
1x Apothecary (TH/SS)
3x LC
1x LC (Sergeant)

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader

The idea is to move #1, #2 and #3 on foot in front of the LRC to provide cover. #3 is a counter-assault unit and #4 (with Belial and IC) in the LRC as a dedicated assault unit. I plan to test this tomorrow, but wanted some input from the fine folks here.

Nice list you gave me some ideas

It looks good. Just a couple of fears...

1. I have seen 6th ed battles and A landraider can be killed quickly. Now it is not necessarily a bad thing but if the LR dies you are going to be fighting an uphill battle right away.

2. I have experienced an on-foot terminator list and found it to be always struggling to catch up with faster armies.

If you are willing to mix... perhaps fill up your three fast attack slots with typhoon speeders or a couple of MM speeder squadrons. They can take care of the vehicles that need to die allowing your deathwing to concentrate on what it does best... killing troops.

DAaddict wrote:It looks good. Just a couple of fears...

1. I have seen 6th ed battles and A landraider can be killed quickly. Now it is not necessarily a bad thing but if the LR dies you are going to be fighting an uphill battle right away.

2. I have experienced an on-foot terminator list and found it to be always struggling to catch up with faster armies.

If you are willing to mix... perhaps fill up your three fast attack slots with typhoon speeders or a couple of MM speeder squadrons. They can take care of the vehicles that need to die allowing your deathwing to concentrate on what it does best... killing troops.

Thanks for your input, you make some valid points.

The other list I was considering had two LR's. But, of course, that's one less DW squad. If I find my lone LR getting waxed early and often, I'll drop Squad #3 and bring a second LR.

At this point, I'm trying to stick to a 'pure' DW list. I like your idea of RW speeders and will give it some serious consideration based on my play testing.

Good luck then. I would go with a classic godhammer LR if you are going to go that route.

Have fun1

Just run footslogging SS/TH termintor squads with cyclone missle lauchers. You have a 2+,3+ you'll be fine. Youll have 5 troop choices because of belial with double shot 48" range frag or krak, again you'll be fine.
I wouldnt worry about most fast attack lists accept for biker lists.

I think at 1500 the Land raider will be pretty hard for some/most armies to deal with. Until they get close with the Meltas and what not.

What exacatly is the IC in TDA? I would try to make it a Libby. For other psycher defense and for some support psychic powers. You also can't go wrong with a Force weapon. It would alos be nice to get that banner in there as well. Nothing like +1 attack on your dedicated CC unit.

Um. Most armies pack plenty of anti-armour these days.

Also; you have absolutely nothing to deal with flyers. Fix that.

 TheCaptain wrote:
Um. Most armies pack plenty of anti-armour these days.

Also; you have absolutely nothing to deal with flyers. Fix that.

+1

I would say drop the LR, it will be a magnet for fire and a loss of 250 pts. quite quickly. You will need some anti-flyer. The CMLs will help, but they are not enough for flyers/tanks, so I would second the addition of some typhoon land speeders or just naked speeders with melta.

DW are solid armies that rely heavily on their saves. I have played against them and they are tough, but I usually just shoot them to death, which works but only if they out in the open. Just watch out for vanilla SM Libbies.

Land raiders do not work for dark angels for variety of reasons. Here the issue is that will be the target of all the antimech an army has.

Foot slogging deathwing is fine and dandy. It is slow but you are spitting out missiles and are hard to kill. I always like to bring some typhoons for cover.

I always like to bring a mix of firepower to my army, so not just the terminators CMLs(they should all have CMLs).

I veto the idea of using a DA librarian. Int. chaplain is fluffy, just see the enemy coming its distance from him as such he has limited awesomeness.

Trying to push more into 6th edition mind set. You need something good to deal with flyers.
Then if you want something other than just merely footslogging think about your allies.

If you're not against allies and wanna stay Termie-focussed I would suggest a Black Templars Marshall in TDA with SS and PW, termie command squad with 2xCMLs, tank hunters, Aegis Defence Line with quad gun. Now you get TL quad-gun with BS5 (from Marshall), skyfire, interceptor and tank-hunter. Works great. Add a cheap squad of initiates with lascannon and PG and you're all set.

Well I am curious as to what you play that has alot of AT at range to deal with the Land raider? I understand alot of meltas are going to be there. But I don't see alot in 1500 that could deal with it that quick.

As far as fliers go. They are overly expensive and a new fad. They are not that great IMHO. I have tried all and have not liked any of them for various reasons.

But to each there own I guess.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Well I am curious as to what you play that has alot of AT at range to deal with the Land raider? I understand alot of meltas are going to be there. But I don't see alot in 1500 that could deal with it that quick.

As far as fliers go. They are overly expensive and a new fad. They are not that great IMHO. I have tried all and have not liked any of them for various reasons.

But to each there own I guess.

Lascannons? Even ML's with a torrent of fire can glance an LR.

The Lance weapons from hell?

MFletch wrote:
I veto the idea of using a DA librarian. Int. chaplain is fluffy, just see the enemy coming its distance from him as such he has limited awesomeness.

Fluffier? Maybe, but you're going to get a lot more bang for your buck with the libby. Prescience grants re-rolls to hit, not just re-rolls to hit on the charge, and all you have to do is pass a psychic test (granted, not always easy). Additionally, you get a whole other psychic chart to roll on, adding further benefit (I like telepathy here.) If fluff is what you're worried about, just put the libby in TDA and now they're DW. Not all DW missions involve hunting the fallen.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well I am curious as to what you play that has alot of AT at range to deal with the Land raider? I understand alot of meltas are going to be there. But I don't see alot in 1500 that could deal with it that quick.

I disagree. IG Meltavets, 5 SG in a DP with combimeltas, fire dragons, broadsides; these are all things that can handle a LR, and are things that you would see in a 1500 pt list. With that LR being the only vehicle on the board, all of those units are going to be gunning straight for it. While LR are great, I generally don't see them doing well in DA lists by themselves.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:As far as fliers go. They are overly expensive and a new fad. They are not that great IMHO. I have tried all and have not liked any of them for various reasons.
But to each there own I guess.

Agreed. Foot slogging terminators don't care about most fliers since they are mostly kitted out for AT. They could be annoying, but not so much that you should buy an aegis defence line with quad gun and put a squad of DW there to man it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MadMaverick76 wrote:

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Well I am curious as to what you play that has alot of AT at range to deal with the Land raider? I understand alot of meltas are going to be there. But I don't see alot in 1500 that could deal with it that quick.

As far as fliers go. They are overly expensive and a new fad. They are not that great IMHO. I have tried all and have not liked any of them for various reasons.

But to each there own I guess.

Lascannons? Even ML's with a torrent of fire can glance an LR.

The Lance weapons from hell?

Even long fang missle spam is going to take several turns to glance a LR off the board. Missiles should never be used against AV14 unless there are absolutely no other viable targets.

 IndigoJack wrote:

MFletch wrote:
I veto the idea of using a DA librarian. Int. chaplain is fluffy, just see the enemy coming its distance from him as such he has limited awesomeness.

Fluffier? Maybe, but you're going to get a lot more bang for your buck with the libby. Prescience grants re-rolls to hit, not just re-rolls to hit on the charge, and all you have to do is pass a psychic test (granted, not always easy). Additionally, you get a whole other psychic chart to roll on, adding further benefit (I like telepathy here.) If fluff is what you're worried about, just put the libby in TDA and now they're DW. Not all DW missions involve hunting the fallen.

Firstly they are both too many points for what they give. You have to admit interrogator chaplains are fluffy. I am not really suggesting either if you want bang for your bucks.
Dark Angel librarians are a poor choice. They do not do much for your lists. Leadership 9 is big set back, then they can not have a good inv. save. They will boost a squad of 5, this isn't much.
They can easily avoid the librarian squad.
You could bring a couple of typhoons for the price of a librarian, now which one will mean more missiles will hit?

MFletch wrote:

 IndigoJack wrote:

MFletch wrote:
I veto the idea of using a DA librarian. Int. chaplain is fluffy, just see the enemy coming its distance from him as such he has limited awesomeness.

Fluffier? Maybe, but you're going to get a lot more bang for your buck with the libby. Prescience grants re-rolls to hit, not just re-rolls to hit on the charge, and all you have to do is pass a psychic test (granted, not always easy). Additionally, you get a whole other psychic chart to roll on, adding further benefit (I like telepathy here.) If fluff is what you're worried about, just put the libby in TDA and now they're DW. Not all DW missions involve hunting the fallen.

Firstly they are both too many points for what they give. You have to admit interrogator chaplains are fluffy. I am not really suggesting either if you want bang for your bucks.
Dark Angel librarians are a poor choice. They do not do much for your lists. Leadership 9 is big set back, then they can not have a good inv. save. They will boost a squad of 5, this isn't much.
They can easily avoid the librarian squad.
You could bring a couple of typhoons for the price of a librarian, now which one will mean more missiles will hit?

In 5th, DA libbies were a poor choice. But with the new BYB powers, they've moved up to mediocre. The OP has already stated his intent on playing a pure DW list, hence why I didn't suggest speeders.Now, comparing interrogator chaplains to librarians, the librarian is a better choice. Lets look at what each gives us (assume their both in TDA to make them DW).

Chaplain: allows re-roll to hit only on the charge (only the unit the chaplain is in and only on the charge), makes the unit fearless (pointless because DW are already fearless), a 4+ inv, and 3 wounds.

Libbie: BYB psychic powers (including one that allows a unit within 12" to re-roll any failed to-hit rolls for a whole round), only a 5+ inv (doesn't matter, you should have him getting shot at and if he does, he can LOS! and make a termie with a storm shield take it), and two wounds (that does suck).

The squad with the chaplain is much easier to avoid, as his ability only affects the unit and only if they're charging. With prescience, the other player not only has to avoid the squad with the libby, but also any DW squads within 12". Prescience also lasts for an entire round, so you can opt not to use it on the charge (the rules say may re-roll) because you don't want to hurt the squad too badly on the charge and risk them falling back, exposing you to enemy fire, then during the opposing players turn, go ahead and use the re-roll to help wipe them out, leaving you free to move, shoot and assault again during your turn. And this is only the advantage of prescience, you still get another roll on the psychic power tables. I understand that to use all these cool psychic powers you need to make a check first, and Ld 9 isn't as reliable as 10, but I would hardly call it a big set back. Psychic defense could be a problem, but such is the risk of every army employing a psyker.

As far as fluff goes, an interrogator chaplain does not accompany the DW on every mission. If his force had a "hunt the fallen" theme, than I could understand. However, there is nothing unfluffy about a DW librarian. The point I was trying to make was that the army can still remain fluffy while being a little more efficient.

TLDR: Librarians are a greater force multiplier than the chaplain because they can affect units other than the one they're in as well.

 MadMaverick76 wrote:

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Well I am curious as to what you play that has alot of AT at range to deal with the Land raider? I understand alot of meltas are going to be there. But I don't see alot in 1500 that could deal with it that quick.

As far as fliers go. They are overly expensive and a new fad. They are not that great IMHO. I have tried all and have not liked any of them for various reasons.

But to each there own I guess.

Lascannons? Even ML's with a torrent of fire can glance an LR.

The Lance weapons from hell?

I honestly don't see many Lascannons in lists that I have seen on here. What I see is the normal missle spam. Not a very good weapon for dealing with AV 14. I ought to know being an Ork player.

Lance weapons are a problem I will agree. But I don't see to many Eldar or Dark Eldar armies where I am at and Eldar are pretty weak right now anyways.

It is just an option is all I am saying. I have used LR's with me DW and they have worked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS. I also agree with what IndigoJack has said about Libbies.

I don't think LD 9 is that bad. On another note having a libby alos helps the squad he is with to stop Psychic powers with a 5+ DTWitch. That is also a bit better then the Chaplain.

I do believe that Libbies are also pretty fluffy for DA as well. Maybe not as much but still there.

I am starting to see more lascannons in lists. I know by me IG mech is big, so lots of heavy weapons here. I had two LRs in my Chaos/DW/DA list, and just seemed to have issues with getting them into position in 5th ed. I have only heard that 6th has made that even a little tougher.

To each his own, but most of the time a list does depend partially on your local meta. I just think one LR at 1500 is a bit risky because any heavy weapons will focus on it, if you did 2000 then two LRs would be good due to some targeting issues.

You are right, different metas mean different play styles for sure. I think some of those heavy weapons are going to be going to the Terms as well.

But I also have the philosophie that if I get my LR to drop of what I need it to drop off then it did its job. So what if it blows up after that. Not everything can survive the battle. I just need it to survive for a part of it. But we all play differently.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:

But I also have the philosophie that if I get my LR to drop of what I need it to drop off then it did its job. So what if it blows up after that. Not everything can survive the battle. I just need it to survive for a part of it. But we all play differently.

My exact mentality with my Rhinos! My only concern is at 1500 pts. is that a 250 pt transport is quite a bit of a loss. I think it is a definitely survivable, but with these new glancing rules, I just worry a bit.

Welll during play its really not as bad as you would think. They survive most of the game.

To the guy saying that Eldar are pretty weak right now, you must be playing with bad players.
Eldar are pretty badass right now. With the bigger emphasis on psychic powers and shooting, the Eldar have become a very competitive army. A couple of psykers in the list combining the use of codex powers and BYB powers can be extremely powerful.

I will have to agree with taking out the land raider. I used to use two back in 5th. They will go down to mass AT fire, and if you only have one, it will become the biggest fire magnet. either that or the enemy can ignore it and it won't do that much.

I'd also advise against a DA librarian. The LD9 stinks, especially if you play against eldar with runes of warding. and only one warp charge hurts because you have to use a power or the force weapon, not both.

For flyer support, I'd suggest adding in a Mortis Dreadnought with lascannons. It still fits in DA fluff-wise and with a 48' range interceptor, skyfire, no fliers will survive its' two twin-linked lascannons. all for a cheap 155 pts.

A big thing to watch out with this list is other terminators, specifically TH/SS salamanders. They have stopped my DW dead in its' tracks multiple times. The LC are great against most, but fail when it comes to taking on 2+ armor, so be careful.

One more thing. Your sergeant should have a TH/SS and put the chainfist in the squad. That way you can take any challenge with the TH/SS sergeant and almost always survive to I1 and beat face with the hammer. A termie srgt with TH/SS can even take on some special characters thanks to the awesomness that is 2+/3++ saves.

The argument about librarians was that they are a better choice than the chaplain. The difference between ld9 and ld10 isn't that big. Runes of warding suck for everyone, not just <ld10. Most psykers have only one warp charge, and those that have more are fairly costly point wise. Not using the force weapon isn't that big of a deal. I wouldn't use the libbie for challenges, and against MCs, you squad full of ap2/3 weapons should be able to handle them. Against a squad of multi-wound models, the ability to re-roll failed to hits is usually going to net you more wounds than the force sword.

I've had the same problem with salamander termies. I usually just try to avoid them. Doesn't always work out though.

As far as the mortis dread, I agree with their awesomeness. I have two and they do excellent. they were brought up in a different thread and the OP didn't seem interested. Otherwise, I would say drop the libbie for a TLLC mortis dred. If you can't find the points for it, go with the TLAC mortis version. Not as good, but 4 TL S7 shots are nothing to sneeze at.

I know they aren't part of the first company. but I've started to use a pair of vindicators to go with my terminators. Those big blasts are great at thinning down hordes which are just to big for you. Or can definately put some wounds on salamander TH termies.
And they can also pull double duty and do some great tank busting work.

OK. Well back on topic of just DW. For a second HQ, If you are in a LRC which can really help ensure you get to charge, take the IC.
But if you are not garunteed the charge with the IC, the librarian is a better option. His abilities can work in more circumstances, and psychic hood benefits are always welcome.

That is IF you take a second HQ at all. I prefer more termies, and either a Ven Dread or a Mortis Dread.

Deathwing will struggle in the 6th ed. No access to flyers, AA defense only from ADL and bastions, fast moving armies will fly circles around it, and the new fearlessness rule in cc (no more extra wounds).
On the other hand, nice looking models in the starter set.

I have got to disagree with you, wuestenfux,
Fliers aren't a big problem, as there are not many fliers that can make it through terminator armor. So I typically just ignore them until I've killed everything else of yours.

Fast moving armies can sometimes be a problem. But with a CML on each squad, the DW can really tear through stuff at range, crippling all the fast transports.

and the new fealessness rule in cc actually helps the DW a lot!

So far my record with DA in 6th is 7-4-0. I've lost twice to Deamons, once to Salamanders, and once to the Epidemius nurgle deamon/plague marines combo.
I haven't had trouble in dealing with fliers yet.

I agree Deathwing is really strong.
You need a fairly good build, as very point counts when you have very few models and very few good options.

Deathwing has always been a slow army. You are walking shooting missiles. Fast moving armies run circles, but you shoot missiles and offer them cc on any objectives they plan on taking.

Flyers are big issue for deathwing they have fortifications and allies for now. With any luck they will get flakk missiles very shortly then in a year a new codex.

They need a new codex as the new cool looking models are not really competitive.

Fearless wounds only really seemed to kill orks and 'nids. Neither army is that scary at the moment. Nob bikers are a bit of issue for deathwing, which is a big change, deathwing were ridiculously well suited.

Is taking FW units as big a deal in 6th as it was in 5th? If not, consider a Mortis pattern contemptor dread with cyclone missile and two twin-linked autocannons. Runs 200pts and you get an AV13, 5++ dread with BS5 and skyfire/interceptor if it remained stationary. Good fire support for both ground targets and air targets, as well as still being very fluffy. Not to mention the models are pretty awesome.

Based on the comments in this thread and my play testing, I've dropped the LRC and picked up another DW squad. I've also retooled the list and edited my OP.