Daemons of Chaos Rumours (Fantasy & 40k) - First post updated with release list, prices, and pics!

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**Azreal13**

Excited for this, been looking to start Daemons this year for a while now.

Have to say that due to the ever spiralling prices and slightly suspect art direction that the last couple of updates have featured, I'm going to use as many 3rd party minis as poss to build a truly chaotic army, so the codex will be my only likely purchase unless the fly riders are made of awesome.

**Azreal13**

BOLS wrote:

Schedule
Look for dual 40K/WFB Chaos Daemons army book-codexes in Feb/March.
They should be in the March White Dwarf, and hit the street end of February

New Models (cut this list into two equal sized waves - one with the codex, one following up a quarter later).
- All four Greater Daemon plastic kits with named options
- Plastic Furies, dual-option kit with "Flesh Terrors"
- Plastic Khorne Chariot, herald, dual kit with a cannon, pulled by Bloodcrushers
- Plastic Tzeentch Chariot, herald, dual kit with "flame-beast" pulled by screamers, ( 40k: a Skimmer)
- Plastic Nurgle Palanquin, (chariot), carried by Nurglings, (combines with Nurgle GD kit for named character model - Ku'gath)
- Nurgle Plague-flies jetbikes/monsterous cavalry (40K-Elites, WFB-Rares)
- New Daemon-engine, bipedal with atypical porportions, uses ectoplasmic weaponry of CSMs, has numerous options for CC or Ranged loadout. (40K- Heavy, WFB-Special)
- New Daemon flying MC. (40K-Fast Attack-flyer, WFB-Rare)

Rules
- Daemon Princes with Wings will move slots in 40K.
- Look for across the board points increases in the codex/army book.

**Azreal13**

@pretre

It's attributed to Voices In The Wind which I assume isn't a username, but may be wrong. It is from today however.

Forgot the link, soz.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/01/40kwfb-rumors-chaos-daemons-inbound.html?m=1

**Azreal13**

They've been linked with Feb since August last year, , it's looking pretty solid.

**Azreal13**

@pretre

Hadn't heard all of this, the ectoplasm on the Engine, the daemonic flyer and princes moving slots was all new to me, and I've been following the rumours with interest.

Slightly baffled by the points increase though, isn't GW's normal MO to decrease points to force purchases?

Unless they are getting a bunch of nasty new rules like the Flamers.

**Azreal13**

@avian

I think the plastic GDs have been ready for a while. If thats true you could discount them from the total.

**Azreal13**

matphat wrote:
azreal13 wrote:
BOLS wrote:
- New Daemon-engine, bipedal with atypical porportions, uses ectoplasmic weaponry of CSMs, has numerous options for CC or Ranged loadout. (40K- Heavy, WFB-Special)
- New Daemon flying MC. (40K-Fast Attack-flyer, WFB-Rare)

Please please pleeeease let them be more creative and interesting sculpts than the CSM dragonzord/gobots that just released!

PLEASE!

I'm actually less bothered about the models than the rules in this instance. It's normally a visual thing for me with a new army, the models HAVE to be right for me to start, which isbwhy I've struggled to start Warmachine as I don't like the aesthetic much.

For DoC though, there are soooo many alternate models out there, plus such scope for conversion that if I don't like a model I'll find an alternative that I do, and if I can't find one I'll create one. I can do that and actually make my army more fluffy and chaotic looking.

None of that matters if they're bonk on the tabletop though!

**Azreal13**

I know it's an outside chance but has anyone heard any more on what base size the GDs are going on.

I've heard the large oval rumour, and I've got a counts as BT that I need to decide on a base for!

**Azreal13**

pretre wrote:
If it was known, it would be here.

Yeah, figured. Thought there was a small chance a few nuts might fall out if I shook the tree.

**Azreal13**

Kolbalt266 wrote:
With the statement by a Birdy, that WD will no longer have updates, See:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/502759.page

Do you think will we will get actual books in march or will they release other form of an update, like a PDF or in-store pamflet

Aren't Harry and Hastings both agreed that it's an Army Book/Codex release?

That's as good as nailed on for me, the only doubt I've seen cast on that has been by other forum users, not by any rumormongers of note.

**Azreal13**

Is that a firm rumour on a plastic Fiend?

Last I heard they had been spotted and then vanished again, so this is the first firm inclusion of them I've seen in any rumour.

GDs with alternative parts has been going around for a while, flip flops between named characters and alternate options for modelling.

Can't recall a named DP before now either, so it's not entirely a retread.

One thing, while I quite like the idea of the Plague Flies, isn't it slightly counter to the whole Nurgle idea of Romero-esque shuffling plague monsters to have a unit that will likely be zipping around all over the shop?

**Azreal13**

undertow wrote:
Sasori wrote:
Yeah, I would think they would have the new Units in the release, and keep the Plastic GDs and Furies/hounds for later.

I would really like to see some new Fiend models though!
Me too, the butt-ugly current models are what has prevented me from buying any up to this point.

Although now that Screamers are so good, I still might not get any fiends. I know they fill slightly different niches, but in Screamers you get the same number of wounds, toughness and invulnerable save for less points. You trade a higher number of attacks at higher initiative for better mobility and S:5 AP:2 and Armorbane attacks.

You mean Flamers?
Screamers are FA and Fiends are Elite, so there's nothing stopping you having both.

I plan, based on current rules, two large squads of flamers and one of Fiends, but I'm not pulling the trigger on the Fiends until I a) see the rules and b) see if they're any new models. If any rule changes suck, I'm out. If the models suck I'm shopping for alternates, as I doubt they'll be cheap and so they better look good!

**Azreal13**

undertow wrote:
Sasori wrote:
undertow wrote:
Sasori wrote:
Yeah, I would think they would have the new Units in the release, and keep the Plastic GDs and Furies/hounds for later.

I would really like to see some new Fiend models though!
Me too, the butt-ugly current models are what has prevented me from buying any up to this point.

Although now that Screamers are so good, I still might not get any fiends. I know they fill slightly different niches, but in Screamers you get the same number of wounds, toughness and invulnerable save for less points. You trade a higher number of attacks at higher initiative for better mobility and S:5 AP:2 and Armorbane attacks.

Yes, but I don't think anyone here honestly expects Screamers and flamers to stay the same. I'm sure in one way or another, they are going to get hit with the Nerfbat.

That's likely, I'm nervous about any changes to be honest.

If this were still 5th Ed I'd want that new codex yesterday. But I think Daemons have come out ahead in the transition from 5th to 6th, even before the WD update which made use even better. I actually really like how my army plays and I'm happy with the options I have. I'm excited for new models, but wary of new rules and sweeping changes to an army that I love that has a unique play style.

I've said this before, but that's my concern too. Daemons are probably the best catered for in terms of alternative models if some of the new sculpts suck, but if the book sucks, that all goes out the window.

I've only just started putting my collection together, so that would be the worst possible outcome.

**Azreal13**

pretre wrote:
SanDiegoSurrealist via Warseer wrote:
Just talked to my local shop owner, he was placing orders today and it is confirmed that Daemons of Chaos will be released next month, what he could not tell me is if it is 40k, Fantasy, or both.

Can I get a squeeeeeeee?!!!!!

Although of course it will be both for a multitude of reasons.

**Azreal13**

gorgon wrote:
Since we're only 2(?) weeks away from having the codex in our hands, I'm gonna guess that Tasty's info is mostly accurate.

It occurs to me that GW's answer to Daemons' problems in dealing with Warp Quake is to have the Daemons less reliant on DS in the first place. Didn't see that one coming, I gotta admit. Then again, it's believable that they'd run with the idea of making them more conventional. After all, we've had hints about them losing EW, (re-)gaining psychic powers, etc. So the removal of Daemonic Assault kinda fits into that, especially since some of their faster units have recently received new kits and buffs. Likewise, removal of the 2-for-1 heralds in exchange for more options makes their HQs more conventional.

From a sales and marketing perspective, this might make Daemons seem less random and more palatable to new players, while forcing existing players to make some significant changes to their armies.

He actually prefaces his whole post with the fact he still believes they're due in April, so, accuracy, yeah...

**Azreal13**

I got as far as the GUO's 'Plague Sword Of Death' and got disappointed. Will it go with the BT's Blood Axe Of Death, the KOS's Naughty Whip Of Pleasure (and death) and the LoC's Change Staff of Confusion and Lies (and death?)

**Azreal13**

timetowaste85 wrote:
And it looks like $25 is the standard for plastic heroes now. Well, didn't buy the WoC hero, won't buy the Daemon ones. Don't care how nice they are, $25 is too much for a man sized model on foot.

Agreed. Unless its cast from liquid awesome there's sooo many modelling options for daemons out there from kit bashes or third parties, one can have an amazing looking army without buying the official minis.

Would it be bad form to link to another forum here on Dakka?

**Azreal13**

They are simply awful! Barely anything there I'd think about maybe buying.

What's this the 4th underwhelming release in a row?

**Azreal13**

Fortunately, my plan has always been to use many non-GW centrepiece models as possible.

I found this thread very useful, I suspect others will now too..
http://z7.invisionfree.com/wyrmling_x/index.php?showtopic=9270&st=0

**Azreal13**

RazakelXIII wrote:
I must be seeing completely different models here. The Khorne stuff is metal as hell, the Tzeentch stuff is pretty much exactly what I'd expected and the Nurgle flies are just hilarious enough to make up for the ugly. My only problems with this release are the prices of the Heralds and the fact that they're holding back the Greater Daemons.

Shoulda gone to Specsavers!

**Azreal13**

NAVARRO wrote:
The herald of nurgle will look great with a bit of cleaning, some OTT details in there...It looks quite bigger in comparison with other plagues ( look how the base seems smaller) will get one eventually.

The flies are a big disappointment for me, I love nurgle and I'm nuts about bugs but the miniature designers involved in this have no idea of what they are doing its so wrong visually that ouch! they do need better designers.

If you, or anyone else, finds any suitable scale fly or similar insect toys, you be sure and share that info, ok? I really like the concept, but not the model, so will try and build my own.

**Azreal13**

Agreed, quite liking the recent direction of cover art. Wouldn't be horrified if MW wrote it either, at least then the rules would likely balance out the horrific minis...

**Azreal13**

Backfire wrote:
I'll defer my judgement of the new models until better pics, however I am not a huge fan of recent trend of giving nearly every army some big, ludicrously elaborated magic Throne/Chariot/Cannon/Rube Goldberg machine. Not only many of the actual models have silly kitbash feel, it takes away from the effect when just about every army has this big magic whachamacallit. "Special" things aren't special when everyone has loads of them. Same goes for things like Monstrous cavalry and huge big monsters in general.

I understand that they want to keep releasing new stuff, and most of the basic infantry is pretty well covered already. Still, sometimes less is more.

And since PP was brought out once again, am I only one thinking that GW and PP aesthetics seem to be slowly creeping towards each other?

Do you think that it went like this?

GW Boss"Have you seen these new enormous models PP are releasing???!!!!??!!!"
Design minion "Yes master, I was thinking...."
GW Boss"I DON'T PAY YOU TO THINK, MAKE SOMETHING LIKE IT IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!"
Design Minion "But master, to do something on that scale would take months of development and planning..."
GW Boss "WHAT?!!! Just turn out any old crap, our idiot customers will eat anything we feed them. have it on my desk by the weekend!!!!"
Design Minion "Yes master, nice master."

**Azreal13**

NELS1031 wrote:
azreal13 wrote:

Do you think that it went like this?

GW Boss"Have you seen these new enormous models PP are releasing???!!!!??!!!"
Design minion "Yes master, I was thinking...."
GW Boss"I DON'T PAY YOU TO THINK, MAKE SOMETHING LIKE IT IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!"
Design Minion "But master, to do something on that scale would take months of development and planning..."
GW Boss "WHAT?!!! Just turn out any old crap, our idiot customers will eat anything we feed them. have it on my desk by the weekend!!!!"
Design Minion "Yes master, nice master."

I know you are being sarcastic, but to be fair, Warhammer always had large monsters, long before Privateer Press even existed. Back in the day, pretty much every army aside from Bretonnians could take monsters. Granted they weren't the size that they are now, but neither were infantry miniatures. Everything has gotten bigger I think, except for Night Goblins.

I remember when the Warhammer Giant came out, the accompanying White Dwarf article singing its praises stated that large scale monsters and such were the future. Sure enough, they've kept true to that promise, with the standard mixed results.

Dude, I remember when the Marauder giant came out. Yes, large models have always been a feature, but it's only latterly they've invented bigger and bigger bases to accommodate them. I do believe that they're now, knowingly or not, getting in a pissing contest with PP over who can introduce the biggest thing. The difference being that, to me, the PP Colossals are some of their best work, whereas the more ambitious GW seem to get the wider they get of the mark, IMO. I say that as a 40k playing, non WM player too.

**Azreal13**

Leth wrote:
PP and GW dont have to be adversarial in nature. I see nothing wrong with one seeing an interesting idea and incorporating it into their line.

Really? The two largest companies in a niche market don't need to be adversarial in nature?

Ha.

To each his own I guess.

**Azreal13**

Leth wrote:
I was talking about amongst the player base. You either have to be PRO GW or PRO PP. Its almost as bad as the GOP and DEMs going at it.

Ah, I see.

In a perfect world that would be nice, but I'm afraid too many people feel the need to feel they made the right call on all the time and money they've invested. I expect the most verbal critics are probably mono system players, whereas the more philosophical posters are also more diverse in their gaming. Just a theory mind.

**Azreal13**

What a weird 24 hours. .

I've never played Daemons before, although I decided I wanted an army when I came back to 40k 2 years ago. I decided to start getting models together a few months ago, trusting Harry and Hastings to have the release date right.

Now I've gone from excitement, to utter disappointment, to cautious optimism to excitement again.

Can't wait for the Codex! Still not sure about the flies though..

**Azreal13**

MajorTom11 wrote:
I am a bit unclear, are the rumoured Greater Daemons just missing from the leak, or are none at all getting released with the codex initially?

If they're coming, I think I've heard that wave 2 is where it's at.

Makes sense, release new stuff wave one to cut off third parties, release resculpts in wave 2.

**Azreal13**

40k-noob wrote:
I cant remember where I read it but it was something like Flamers no longer have "Breath of Chaos" instead they have a "heavy flamer" type weapon.

That would explain why the sternguard survived the charge against 7 flamers.

Not really, even one hit per flamer at normal flamer hits should take out one marine, statistically.

I don't know from the wording whether he charged in alongside Lysander at the same time, or if Lysander was already in combat. If Lysander was already in combat, that explains no overwatch.

**Azreal13**

Backfire wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:

Clear photos on bright backgrounds with good lighting = Good!
WD photo team photographing things with heavy shadow on dark backgrounds = Bad!

This has been puzzling me as well, why are WD photos so dark nowadays?

It's cinematic