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Just like the title says, with 6th ed here armies are in what tier: top, middle and bottom tier. Just looking to see what people think.

That's hard to answer since the 6th edition is out for just 2 months. But it could look like this:

Top tier: Necrons, IG, SW, GK, Orks

Middle tier: BA, DE, SM, CSM, Nids

Bottom tier: Eldar, Tau, SoB.

Top Tier: Mine
Middle Tier: Everyone Else's
Bottom Tier: Tyranids, Sisters of Battle


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
That's hard to answer since the 6th edition is out for just 2 months. But it could look like this:

Top tier: Necrons, IG, SW, GK, Orks

Middle tier: BA, DE, SM, CSM

Bottom tier: Eldar, Tau, SoB.

Eldar and Tau can outperform many of those middle-tier armies when allied together; I think that's worth mentioning. Even Harliestar outwinning most of those middle-tier lists.

Tau is middle for the mere fact that it can spam broadsides to swat fliers all over the place.

From what I've seen on my local scene, Eldar are hardly bottom teir. In the opening league at my store, an Eldar army was the only one that went undefeated.

against how many scythwing/IG "elysian" builds did it play ?


Necron are probably the best army . IG are good . Other armies are that were good in 5th are still ok , but they just cant spam flyers like IG or necron . And then there is the bottom tier of SoB/nids which just either lack something[sob] or dont work well and the design team has no idea how to fix this[nids].

Even Harliestar outwinning most of those middle-tier lists.

no army build around a deathstar that dies from 2 hvy flamers is a good one and all the "mid" tier listed can ally too , so its bad arugment to ponder the higher level of tau or eldar lists.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Bottom tier: Tau

pffffffffffffffffffffff

Let's try to be real here guys. Tau are at very least middle tier. Their firepower must be respected in shooting edition, especially now that rapid fire goes out to 30" and drone meatshields are uber.

I'd place BA and GK at about the same level, which makes only three tiers a little sparse

Makumba wrote:no army build around a deathstar that dies from 2 hvy flamers is a good one and all the "mid" tier listed can ally too , so its bad arugment to ponder the higher level of tau or eldar lists.

You clearly don't know what a Dark Harlistar is if you think two Heavy Flamers wipe it out.

Now as for tiers, we can discuss self-contained armies in a tier system, but the fact is it is pointless since the inclusion of allies changes everything. The combos are endless and people are still coming up with more powerful builds as we speak. That being said, Necrons and Guard seem to have clear advantages over other armies.

Flamers can make a mess out of a Harliestar. Fortuning a 5+ inv. save is not a safe bet.

In fact, we'll see a lot of armies with ally detachments at larger pt levels. Allies can balance the weaknesses of an army.

 wuestenfux wrote:


Top tier: Necrons, IG, SW, GK, Orks

Middle tier: BA, DE, SM, CSM, Nids

Bottom tier: Eldar, Tau, SoB.

I don't agree with your bottom tier; SoB are pretty good, Eldar the same and Tau similar. I would probably lump everyone bar Necron, SW and maybe GK/IG in the middle and be done with it.

Top - IG, Necrons, GK

Middle - everyone else, every army has fairly strong builds now even Tau, Nids and sisters.

Well except

Bottom - Black Templars

azala wrote:
Top - IG, Necrons, GK

Middle - everyone else, every army has fairly strong builds now even Tau, Nids and sisters.

Well except

Bottom - Black Templars

Templars still work, we just took an unneeded nerf. CML Terminators with Tank Hunters are still stellar units.

I'd say Daemons are now somewhere between middle and top tier. The only matchup I'm struggling with is GK's (Warpquake remains a hard counter)...but Necrons, IG, SW all have a pretty rough time hanging with Daemons.

 whigwam wrote:
I'd say Daemons are now somewhere between middle and top tier. The only matchup I'm struggling with is GK's (Warpquake remains a hard counter)...but Necrons, IG, SW all have a pretty rough time hanging with Daemons.

Necrons and any army that can take a good amount of flier spam can handle daemons pretty handily. Air force would murderificate any army that doesn't have a whole lot of bloodthirsters. Trust me on this, I'm a daemons player and i do not like to admit it but It kinda is true. Daemons have no reliable way of dealing with fliers.

thisisnotpancho wrote:

 whigwam wrote:
I'd say Daemons are now somewhere between middle and top tier. The only matchup I'm struggling with is GK's (Warpquake remains a hard counter)...but Necrons, IG, SW all have a pretty rough time hanging with Daemons.

Necrons and any army that can take a good amount of flier spam can handle daemons pretty handily. Air force would murderificate any army that doesn't have a whole lot of bloodthirsters. Trust me on this, I'm a daemons player and i do not like to admit it but It kinda is true. Daemons have no reliable way of dealing with fliers.

With respect, I will not trust you on this! I'm a Daemon player and a Necron player myself. The person I most frequently play with also plays Necrons. I've faced Vendetta-spam and Scythe-spam in tournaments. In short, I am pretty familiar with what Flyerspam can do, and my Daemons have consistently beat it.

I think your problem could be that you're looking at "dealing with Flyers" as equivalent to "destroying Flyers." Vector Strikes might be Daemons best chance at destroying an AV11+ Flyer (we have better options for downing AV10), but all that really means is that Daemons have no meaningful chance at destroying Flyers. The odds don't favor a Vector Strike doing much, and in anything but double-FOC, you won't have enough FMC's to do any serious damage to them. They'll fly on, easily kill your 'Thirster(s), then pick apart the rest of your army. Simply put, Flying Circus has nothing on Flyerspam. And that is only one of many reasons why mass-FMCs do not make for a competitive build (there are plenty more). Not that you're advocating that, but "spam FMCs" is a piece of very bad advice I hear far too often.

The way I deal with Flyers is one part acceptance, one part avoidance. Vendettas are an easy example: 3 TL-Lascannon shots hardly even tickle Daemons. So accept that you can't kill them, and just take the hits. With invulns, you're looking at 1-2 wounds taken. On anything but a FMC, that's nothing. A volley of Lasguns would be more dangerous. With their Tesla Destructors, Scythes can put out considerably more shots, but realistically, you're still only taking 3-5 wounds. With invulns/army-wide Eternal Warrior/careful model placement, the Death Ray shouldn't hurt either. And that's about as destructive as Flyers get (barring Forgeworld).

Now all those wounds will eventually add up to something significant, so you shouldn't just stand still and take it all game. And that's where avoidance comes in. I hide my objectives behind LOS-blocking terrain. I outmaneuver Flyers with my fast units (Screamers, Flamers, Fiends), Deep Strike behind them, and generally just try to stay out of their limited LOS whenever I can. Failing that, I get myself locked in the relative safety of close combat. I know it's been said ad infinitum, but with Flyers' limited LOS/movement options, there's only so much of the board they can control at one time. I'm sure it's a lot worse when your points are concentrated in a few badass FMC's. But I bring 80+ models and 130+ wounds on the table (to use my 1999+1 Daemons list as an example). Flyers just cannot solve that problem alone. They need their (minimal) ground presence to help, and, well, I'm focusing my entire army on eliminating that ground presence. After that's done with, then it's just playing the mission, and for most scenarios I have the models to out-play them (VP/KP missions are the real problem, but those are rare and still winnable depending on the opponent's build).

I don't want to expand much more on my Daemons mini-tactica here. Too much more to cover (and I've already gone on too much). Suffice to say: Flyers are only Daemons' Achilles heel if you set yourself on destroying them. But then you're playing their game, and that's never been Daemons' strength.