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i play space marines and a player i know is using alot on MC's and like 10 guants as a list(perfectly legal list) but i cant take it out, i run a take all comers list a i dont like to taylor my lists to one situation but i'm running out of idea's here

hes running variations of this, flying tyrant, 2 tervigon's, 2 taranofex's 2 dakkafex's 2 venomthropes and 2 zoanthropes and maybe 1 group of 10 gaunts

i cant workout target priority, not have enough enough shots to sucessfully down a MC in round of shooting and i dont want to be forced to run 30 TH/SS against him lol

can any one help?

It sounds quite slow (apart from the tyrants) so maybe if you set up forwards and then retreat/use combat tactics to draw him in and in, then try and hit him hard?

What is your list normally, that could help

Sternguard are a pretty TAC unit. If you take a squad or two of them the hellfire rounds would cause too many wounds for your opponent to save. Add in some sniper scouts with the hellfire heavy bolter and you're golden.

But yes, the list you usually run would be helpful here.

termie libby epistolary with SS

3 tac squads, 1 with mm and m, 2 with plasma and missles

iron clad in droppod

TFC

Vindicator

2 Storm talons

I hate everyone and anyone who runs TFCs. My brother has taken to running 2 of them and a whirlwind while I am trying to figure out how to run footguard. Ass. Him, not you.

I'm kidding (sort of), here is a more helpful answer...just lemme write it

Ok I think my initial idea may actually be an alright idea, the ironclad can come on behind the gaunts and kill them (lowering his ranged attack on the rest of your forces) and then he has to slow down and engage it, or he has to let it slide and then it'll assault something bigger (Tervigon who would be near the gaunts probably...thats the birthing thing, right?).

Your tac marines, libby vindicator and TFC will deploy forwards and then walk backwards piling shots in. If he wants to close quickly with most of his army he'll have to run (then you will be the only one sending rounds downrange) and you can fall back and use combat tactics to keep him at arms length. Stormtalons come on and engage tyrants/whatever is left on the ground.

Seems sound in theory I think...

used the TFC to kill the venom's but the hive tyrant is ussally on it quick but after that, makes me wish i was playing guard....

A single unit of hammernaters is all you need for an all comers list. What chapter do you play?

Adding hammernaters to your list will yield 1 of 2 results. Either you outplay the nids, mow down the gaunts that tervigons spit out with bolters/tfc/whirlwhind exc while the hammernaters stomp his tmc, or the bug player out plays you, his big bugs stomp your tac marines, and the hammernaters all die from a paroxism+ massed fc/poison gaunt charge.

sounds soooo easy when you put it like that, last game went the best against it but still lost bady, did exactly that dropped the ironclad behind and flamed the venoms and with help from the TFC i took them down for first blood, he then scored a direct hit with a tyranofex on the vindi blowing it up, then was up to 2 plasma's and 2 rockets pretty much

by the end i held one objective on the back line as he'd pushed e back all the way, by that time i had wounded the tyrant, and nearly killed both dakkafex(managed to stop a few of his assaults using combat tactics to run away after his assaults or if he was stupid enough to inflict a morale check in shooting when he wanted to assault that turn, but in the end i reckon if it had gone to turn six i would of been tabled with a combat squad left

Targeting priority should be the following: Venomthrope (small arms fire is the best), Tervigons (focus the fire on one that is a troops choice), Flyrant and then the Dakkafexes. Finish up the rest at your leisure.

This list has some real big weaknesses. It is slow and very short ranged. It also counts to much on the tervigons producing scoring troops. It places a lot of it's firepower in 2 or 3 units, but that firepower is pretty short ranged. Keep mobile and focus on one unit at a time and you should do better. Read up on denied flank deployment.

thanks glooms i will certainly try

 Gloomfang wrote:
Targeting priority should be the following: Venomthrope (small arms fire is the best)

I don't think I agree with that, I'd say your TFC and your ironclad are your best weapons against the venomthropes, because they'll ignore its cover save and armour (in the case of the flamer and maybe the TFC? Not sure on a venomthrope's save)

ally in a SW rune priest . jaws . most stuff dies from being touched .

As a person who has been a tyranid player in this matchup many times I cannot say I see how you are having problems.

What the tyranid list like that really do not like are ranged units with damadge. Autocannons and missile launchers.

From the points you listed it seems like he is in the 1750 to 1850 point range?

Your troops should be in rhino's or razorbacks (plasma lazer). Keep one unit in the rhino and another one back fiering lasercannons/missile launchers. Have dreadnoughts with autocannons, predators or landspeeders with missile launchers that can shoot at his Armour of 3. That usualy does it. Take out the tervigons for less synapse along with the zoanthropes and the flyrant (if you ground the flyrant one round just pour all the shots you can into it.)

The carnifexes as easaly avoided, just back off while you keep shooting. Terminators of any sort is also nice in here.

I do not know about the storm tallons, as long as they arive fast you will be OK but you usualy have 2 rounds of a shooting gallery vs tyranids and then they can start to do theyr thing. Get some transports on those tactical squads. Also consider not using the ironclad in a drop pod. It sounds very suesidal in this case.

Also, the vindocator is not very threathening vs MC's since it can only take out so many wounds per turn.

Transport is key. Also remember that you know can use krak grenades against him to take them out.

PS: Makumba using jaws vs tyranids is really just cheating. I am not saying it is cheating. It isen't. But as a player who play's both I can just tell you that a 100 point model that can shot down your oponents psykick powers and is garanteed to take out 400 points of the tyranid army is a lott like cheating. It is not like the grey hunters are perhaps a bitt underpriced and particulary good vs tyranids or that long fang missile spam is not good vs tyranids. If you do ally with SW to take jaws, that is just kicking a friend when you are both trying to have funn.

hettar plays space marines . Shouldnt he always be using a SW rune priest for the staff against all psykers in 6th ed ? + Long Fangs are better then SM devastators and GH make a nice counter unit with totem dual plasma and a WG termi to tank all non ap2/ignore armor hits. RP+GH+LF is a rather standard ally setup for marines.
LL and jaws is a normal load out for a rune priest ,so I dont see how using an all comers unit in an all comers list could even give a hint of cheating.

I mean he could also run a squadron of vendettas and a blob with plasma and autocannons . Could work too , but RP give the list more utility imo.

Well, I'd take two full Tacticals in Rhinos which can lay fire against his bigger bugs and the Gaunts.
Then as said, I'd take a full unit of Hammernators led by a Librarian w/ terminator armor, shield.
Expand from here. Ten Termies with 2 cyclones would be a good add-on as would be some Landspeeders with cyclones or assault cannons.

I've played my friends space marines and he has trashed me every time.
The hellfire round are worth it. They really tear up nids at range. Also the previous suggestion of starting up close and moving back and firing is a good idea, it keeps the nid at range and out of cc, though this army list doesn't appear to be cc based.
In terms of shooting priority, i think either the venomthropes first, or if they aren't near them, the tyrannofexs first, since i believe the tyrannofexs have the longest range with the rupture cannon. Zoans after that, hitting them with something that will instant death them. After that tervigons, tyrants and carnifexs. Hitting the tervigons will leave less troops on the table, and the tyrants will leave that carnifexs without synapse and if your out of range you should be able to take them down at your leisure.
not sure if this helps

I second the hammernator idea. They are a good TAC choice and they seriously rape MCs... If you want to be particularly nasty you coul take DA allies : Belial, 2 units of deathwing with CML and TH/SS .... These are 600 points of sheer power

I wouldn't count on JotWW being all that usefull against most Nidzilla lists. It can't affect the Flyrant and the Zoans and Tervigons will get a 5+ DtW. The T'fex and Dakkafexs are vulnerable to it though.

I will say that Hellfire rounds hurt. So do TFC. I will agree that TFC should shoot at the Venom's first.

What sticks out at me after reviewing this list again is that it really vulnerable to CC. If he is not taking the acid spray and stinger salvo on his T'fex then marines with PF and Power Axes might work against them. Even power swords will work against the DakkaFexs and they do not have a lot of wounds to loose and they are slow to hit.

I also second the Vindicator not being a great weapon against this list. It works best when it can ID blocks of elite troops like stealers.

As for why you want to use small arms fire on the Venomthropes, you need volume of fire to take them down. While a ML will ID one that S8 shot is better served hitting one of the T6 MCs. With W2 and T4 it is better to hit them with a bunch of bolter fire and then start firing the heavy weapons at them.

Gloomfang I agree that the JotWW is not "what it was", but you can easlay buy two priests for 100 points, stick them in rhinos or just have them on bikes and very consistently take out models that range from 160 to 265 points until there are no more of sead models. It will not winn you the day instantly, but it will get you more then halfway there asuming your list or your playing skills are not designed by... I cannot find a word to put in that last bit of sentence that is not ofensive to sertain groups but the point I am making is stil quite clear.

The only defense against JotWW is not to take T-fexes and carnifexes in your list. Tervigon is also not looking so hot.

But back on topic: The easiest adition to your army that will not hamper your wallet would be 2 rhinos and a landspeeder thyphoon.

well alot of you i can see would suggest a cmplete list change up for just taking on nids, when this list does fine against all other comers, i really dont like just tayloring my lists to take on one enemy, the fights are ussually 1500pts but at 1750 i could plant 6 TH/SS's into the mix at 240pts and put 10pts in else where, would like to see the difference between the talons and the speeders as i hate it when i have to speed them off because after the minimum move nothing is in the firing arc any more, and they become sooo vulnerable when they switch to hover mode as they become a fast skimmer that hasnt moved so it get no jinx save, i think if i switched out the storms for speeders i would definantly have enough for 3 rhino's but wont make any decisions until i'm sue that this list cant beat the nids( nid hordes who every second model isnt an mc my original list does fine against)

Without changing your army list try the following.
1) Kill the Venomthropes. You need to remove any cover saves that you can. It makes all the other advice easier to follow.

2) Kill all the scoring units in objective style games. Without scoring units it is much harder to win.

3) Focus on weaker units in KP style games. Let the Tervigons spit out little units and then kill them all. Go for the easier to kill units and work your way up. Play KP denial and go for the low hanging fruit.

4) Don't give him anything to shoot at. His list is very shooty for a Nid list. But it is sloooowww. He will not be able to react well to a fast army.

The storm tallons should be abel to deal with his flyrant quite easaly. If he spreads out then take out his zynapse in that aria.

what are his tyranofexes, are they S10 gun or the flamer? If they are the S10 gun then just ignore them. The dakkafexes are not a threat until they get close, so learn to time how long you can ignore them. Use the vindocator vs the zoanthropes / venomthropes. But ignore the venomnthropes if there is enough 5+ cover already (telekinese dome, terain etc.)

The armour 3 + MC's you can take in CC with krak grenades.

Fokus fire on one MC at a time. A MC at 1 life is just as dangerush as one on 6.

5 man assault squads, packing a melta gun, and a TH/SS sarge.

Challenge the MC to single combat with the sarge... you outnumber him 5-1, so you get 5 re-rolls per phase... use em on sarge's 3++ from the stormshield, and retaliate with thunder hammer swings

I don't think Nid MCs (except tyrants)are characters so you cannot challenge them...
And Btw, you gain a single reroll for every 5 models IIRC, so you would have only 1 reroll...

 punkow wrote:
I don't think Nid MCs (except tyrants)are characters so you cannot challenge them...
And Btw, you gain a single reroll for every 5 models IIRC, so you would have only 1 reroll...

Only IC in the nid codex is the Prime, none of the MCs.

Tyrant isn't an IC but is a character, Parasite is an IC, all the other named guys are characters and can therefore be challenged.

Ahh keep forgetting to look in the back of the BRB since it's newer. Not sure how I missed the Parasite...

The problem with that is it's a flyrant. It's not easy grounding it in the first place in order to get a squad into combat to challenge it without something with Skyfire.

Our group has 2 Nid players and they obviously have flyrants up the wazzoo. I can tell you, those things are low on the list of priorities while flying, you just waste too many shots trying to do anything to it. My first game against one, I lost bad, because I wasted 2 whole shoota boyz mobs trying to bring one down. with 60+ shots, I ended up with 1 wound and it passed its grounding test. Just ignore them, until it drops. Then it can come further up on your list.

He has 2 storm talons. That should do nicely on the skyfire front