Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

New to Space Marines and looking for the best options for equipping my captain or chapter master and the differences between the two units.

First, which unit to take. At first glance, the chapter master with his orbital bombardment for a measly 25 points more seems like a no brainer. I face a lot of IG parking lots and that would help clear the field rather nicely. However, the Honor Guard doesn't seem to have the same utility as the company command squad.

That being said, I want my commander to be a close combat monster. Im torn between the relic blade or lightning claw, and a combi-melta or plasma pistol. The extra attack in close combat would be nice, but having the ID, tankbusting meltas could really come in handy too. Also wondering about melta bombs. So any advice?

I think the best setup for a SM captain/Chapter Master is Artificier Armour, relic blade and storm shield.
2+ armour save, 3+ inv save, S 6 attacks? Yes, please

For your question: captain or chapter master? I'd go for the chapter master. That orbital bombardment could make the game a lot easier (or it could be really useless). (but, pointwise I'd go for the captain )
So if you have those 25 points to spare, go CM!
And I'd stick him with some termies in a LR or just with some people on a rhino to scare people

Depends on the points you have to spare. But usually I use a CM (for the orbital bombardment). Also you can have him attached to a honor guard and throw a decent sized unit in a landraider and have them butcher whatever they run into. For equipment it depends on what you like, but I would defintely throw him in some artificer armor, and then just your weapons/gear of choice. Relic blades are nice but do you want him to have ap2 for challenges, or is he going to be a support guy, or is he your front and center. Don't waste a bunch of points on a dude that is going to sit and hide during your games unless you don't have an option but to fight because everyone else is dead. If you have him kitted out as a close combat king, then use the star of your show and take it to the enemy and have him earn his points.

I plan to have him out in the front lines getting kills, and hopefully answering challenges against enemy ICs. The initial bombardment would be gravy, but his main purpose will be to get into close combat.

The orbital bomrabdment is seldom worth it. Especially seeing how he must remain stationary. The command squad is a better squad than the honour guard so that is also a plus. If you want a captain that beat face in CC then go with Artificer Armour, Powerfist and a a Lightning Claw. That way you can punch opponents with a 3+ save at initiative and also beat termies (albeit at I1). You will also be a much bigger threath to vehicles.

Have you considered a captain on bike?

Put the Chapter Master in Terminator Armor. Now he can fire the Bombardment on the move through the new Relentless (Before you say anything, go look at the wording of Relentless in the rulebook, it implies that he can fire it on the move). However, note that you're using a combat character in a non-combat army, unless you're building your list to be sitting closer than 48" all day.

If you're going to have him kill people in CC, give him a bike. Everything else is really secondary, but being T5 base means he doesn't have to fear the Power Fists of other S4 or lower models.

I think you are asking the wrong question here; the question should what to take but more importantly when to take it. Fact is that unless you are running a Bike army there's little reason to take either a Captain or a Chapter Master at all, as one of the special characters should fill the role much better with their additional special rules.

And if you are taking a Bike army, equip with Bike (obviously), Artificer, Storm Shield, and Fist.

Hmm, that is a consideration. I think the main issue with a bike is that we play with a lot of terrain and multi-story buildings and ruins, making it tough to get to get the assault. I also want the option to be able to put him in a drop pod. As for whether the commander is even the right option, Ive already bought the model; whoops.

A relic blade, lightning claw or powerfist can't get the extra attack in CC and id rather not take something that will have me sacrificing that great initiative 5 while still being killy. Relic blade sounds perfect except its so expensive and doesn't have AP2 (may be wrong on that). Im almost inclined to go with the standard power sword, plasma pistol and melts bombs with artificier armor unless someone has suggestions to the contrary.

I have to say, nothing is more sad than seeing your awesome captain not able to take down a single terminator. I think the power fist would be awsome though, and this thread has given me an idea for the future.


ooo!! how about a power sword and a power ax! you would get a +1 attacks, and now your able to deal with terminators!

The general idea is that while both weapons cant gain an extra attack, each one uses their different abilities to an advantage. as a person who used vulkan, the relic blade can cause lots of damage, striking at initiative and wounding marines on a 2+. That can really just just through guys like hot butter, killing most before they strike back. [Note: vulkan's blade is master crafted so he gets re-rolls, which also really helps him, but still.] with a power fist now your able to punch MC's, terminators and that stubborn tank, so it's extra insurance.

or another idea is to give your leader terminator armor and replace his storm bolter with a thunder hammer.
hope it helped

You're still going at I1 though, right?

yes, but artificer armor can help negate that. fighting against lightning claw terminators the AP3 bounces right off, and against tacticals and TH/SS you strike at the same time, so you still get your hits in.

 warboss_grimjaw wrote:
Hmm, that is a consideration. I think the main issue with a bike is that we play with a lot of terrain and multi-story buildings and ruins, making it tough to get to get the assault.

40k is a shooting game. If he can't assault then so be it, shooting is more powerful anyway.

Tiger9gamer wrote:The general idea is that while both weapons cant gain an extra attack

Actually as Melee weapons that aren't also specialist weapons having both does give you an extra attack, you just have to choose which to use each round of combat for their stats and abilities.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:


Actually as Melee weapons that aren't also specialist weapons having both does give you an extra attack, you just have to choose which to use each round of combat for their stats and abilities.

not exactly. C:SM says that while a relic blade can be used with something like a storm shield or power weapon, it never gains an extra attack.

40k is a shooting game until it isn't. Yeah, most of the tactics are based around shooting, especially with the changes in 6th, but nothing really routs a unit like an assault. I've lost 22 orks crossing an open killing ground only to finally get the charge and absolutely decimate the foe. We play with a lot of big and complex buildings with multiple stories with the objectives placed throughout, so it's almost impossible to go a game without needing to storm some kind of building and having a badass like the Captain will help with that.

It's all about synergy. I'm not acting like I'm some authority on the subject, but I'd like to try out different tactics with the Space Marines to combine both shooting and close combat units into a winning and, more importantly, fun army to play.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:


Actually as Melee weapons that aren't also specialist weapons having both does give you an extra attack, you just have to choose which to use each round of combat for their stats and abilities.

not exactly. C:SM says that while a relic blade can be used with something like a storm shield or power weapon, it never gains an extra attack.

Yes, but you said power sword and axe, not relic blade and axe.

Terminator Armor does not let a Chapter Master move and fire Orbital. The Orbital rules forbid movement, it's not just an Ordnance weapon.

Secondly, Captain on a bike with Artificer Armor, Thunder Hammer, and Storm Shield. That guy is a nightmare of a bully unit. He all but ignores small arms and small swords (including power swords). At T5 with a 3+ Invulnerable, he also doesn't care much about large arms and power fists. At the same time, he's squishing most other characters in one swing.

He's also got the mobility to be where is necessary, and since you can take Bikes as Troops (and why wouldn't you), he's rolling around in a scoring unit.

 Jihallah wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:


Actually as Melee weapons that aren't also specialist weapons having both does give you an extra attack, you just have to choose which to use each round of combat for their stats and abilities.

not exactly. C:SM says that while a relic blade can be used with something like a storm shield or power weapon, it never gains an extra attack.

Yes, but you said power sword and axe, not relic blade and axe.

oh, my bad then, got confused with relic blade and power fist.

also additional question: would a captain with the above power axe and power sword be fun in apocalypse? (if side tracks thread too much please ignore)

warboss_grimjaw wrote:so it's almost impossible to go a game without needing to storm some kind of building and having a badass like the Captain will help with that.

You think a Captain is a bad ass?

warboss_grimjaw wrote:It's all about synergy. I'm not acting like I'm some authority on the subject, but I'd like to try out different tactics with the Space Marines to combine both shooting and close combat units into a winning and, more importantly, fun army to play.

People have this misconception that synergy means competing in all 3 phases of the game; this is simply not the case. In fact more often than not good synergy usually results in you lacking in one phase of the game but being so proficient in the others that it doesn't matter. Don't try to do combat with C:SM, and if you insist, don't do it with a Captain, take someone like Calgar; now he is a badass.

 warboss_grimjaw wrote:
40k is a shooting game until it isn't. Yeah, most of the tactics are based around shooting, especially with the changes in 6th, but nothing really routs a unit like an assault. I've lost 22 orks crossing an open killing ground only to finally get the charge and absolutely decimate the foe. We play with a lot of big and complex buildings with multiple stories with the objectives placed throughout, so it's almost impossible to go a game without needing to storm some kind of building and having a badass like the Captain will help with that.

It's all about synergy. I'm not acting like I'm some authority on the subject, but I'd like to try out different tactics with the Space Marines to combine both shooting and close combat units into a winning and, more importantly, fun army to play.

You just offended like 2/3rds of the people on this site by using the word Synergy. Usually the mentality on the interwebs is, if it works, take as many of it as you can, and what is this trying out different builds thing. There is only one way to do anything. Any other way and you are a noob,and will get pwned super hard by everyone with any type of comptetive bone in their body.

Personally, try a few styles and see how they work. It really is going to take some work on your part by playing lots of games with each style (like at least 10) and see which style works best for you. Shooting got a boost in 6th edition, but assault is still amazing; you just have to go about it differently.

P.S. If you are offended by my post about the 2/3rds being offended, than you are part of the 2/3rds, if not, then you aren't

Assault is random and you get shot at for just trying. Unless you are a dedicated super unit, there's nothing amazing about it.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Assault is random and you get shot at for just trying. Unless you are a dedicated super unit, there's nothing amazing about it.

You should be using a dedicated assault unit to assault with. Your doing something wrong if you aren't and that is why it isn't amazing to you. Sure SM don't offer a lot in the way of dedicated (effective) assault units (or at least people aren't willing to pay the points for them). But you can use assault terminators, or vanguard, or if you know how to tactically use them, assault marines.

With threads like this people get a glimpse at an army (usaully a very small glimpse (like captian or chapter master)) and make decisions based solely on that. There is more than one way to do everything, think outside of the box. Just becasue something works, doesn't mean nothing else does.

Putting in my 2 cents

from what i saw you are going to put him in CC and bash some skulls right?

If thats the case i would say take a chaplain in term armor and stick him with TH/SS terms in a land raider. You will do some real damage with that if you get in close.

Other wise, as stated before, it depends on what you are running, a bike army put him on a bike a shooty on foot with what ever. i just really favor the chaplain over the captains or CM when it come to CC.

I've heard a lot of divergent opinions here, but with 6th ed rules, the math seems pretty easy.

First of all, the Captain is a beat stick. It's just what he is. Most HQs are beat sticks.

AP 2 versus 3 matters, both on your end, and his. Instant Death matters.

A bike makes you real T5 now an immune to powerfist and lascannon ID.

Artificer armor means that lots of characters, particularly special characters, have a very low chance of hurting you. Even Draigo will have a tough time.

A powerfist or thunder hammer means you will be able to kill 2+ save folks in turn. I like the hammer because at least you can bring them down to Initiative 1 and it frankly looks cooler.

So Bike, fist/hammer, artificer armor. Get the stormshield if you want, it shouldn't make a big difference. Ranged weapons are optional.

With a Bike Captain you can get T5, TH/SS, Artificer armor, TL Boltgun, 12" base move, Hammer of Wrath, Jink, and relentless special rules (from the bike), up to 12" more movement in the shooting phase (can't assault, though). So he is now immune to ID from most attack that would come towards him, has a 2+ save against almost anything that does hit him, a 3+ invul save for the occasional AP1 hit. He can shoot 2 S4 AP5 bolter rounds with a re-roll to hits and then assault the same turn, gets a free S4 melee attack at I10, then can withstand almost every hit to swing his TH at I1. If he causes a wound that doesn't obliterate the enemy, that enemy attacks at I1 next turn meaning that the initiative drop is almost irrelevant (anything that wouldn't get murdered by a TH is the real CC danger). This is for a total of of 195 points (compared to 250 points for Calgar, who is by all means a beast worth taking).

Oh, and since Bike troops now count as Troops on the FoC, you can stick him in with a Bike squad (say, 6 bikes, 2 melta, 1 MM attack bike for 235 points). You now have 8 cannon fodder wounds to get your Captain into combat, and the Captain now leads a scoring unit that can move a max of 24" per turn. Grand total: 430. For comparison:

375 points gets you the same Captain minus the bike with a command squad with 4x power weapons in a razorback. You gain the power weapons and feel no pain, but lose mobility, immunity to ID from many different attack, relentless, free CC attacks at S4, 4 safety wounds, and a scoring unit.

360 gets you the same Captain with a squad of assault termies. I like this alternative, but they either need a LR to stay mobile all game, or they deepstrike and have to slog around the map after that.

Does the bike option have weaknesses? Everything does, plus I'm a fan of bikes so I'm not going to be the most objective. However, the pros are hard to ignore in 6th edition.

I just give him 2 Plasma Pistols. He's 130pts and goes well with a unit of Sternguard to give it some shooting bite. Not the best of builds, but he still gets 4/5 attacks in melee, and he fights against Terminators the same as if he had a power weapon! (i.e. not very well)

Plus, it looks really cool when modeled. Space Marine character duel wielding pistols? Come on, try not to get a nerd boner imagining a gun-fighter space marine leader. Cypher was popular for a reason.

I always like artificer armour, plasma pistol and relic blade.

Yes ap3 now sucks, but i love Initiative 5 hits. Also why waste his BS5 thus the pp. he comes with 4++ so feel SS a little rich if he can down a terminator with his pistol before he charges.

I dont have bikes but that TH bike captain sounds like he will become much more popular. Alsomthought the LC and TH captain sounded good, bit like logan.

 AresX8 wrote:
Put the Chapter Master in Terminator Armor. Now he can fire the Bombardment on the move through the new Relentless (Before you say anything, go look at the wording of Relentless in the rulebook, it implies that he can fire it on the move). However, note that you're using a combat character in a non-combat army, unless you're building your list to be sitting closer than 48" all day.

I read the new rule. No, he can not move and use it his bombardment, please explain further.

The bombardment is not worth 25pts, it will miss. Then it is not clear when you'll get a chance to use it.

The captain can be good as you can open biker troops and command squads. Plus he is cheaper for very similar abilities as the master.

Better still bring a librarian.

I appreciate all of the feedback, gentleman, this has given me much to think on.

Good luck out there!