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Hi all,

Been a while, but at last the Angels are back - first substantial set of models in a long while so Ive been smiling a lot. What are we all thinking? My thoughts:

1. SO nice to have some Dark Angel love! Kind of trumps any of the issues I have below. Buuuuuut....

2. Box of unpainted Dark Angels has grown as awaiting codex for a holisitic assessment of paint schemes and modelling comprehensiveness (theme, style, colour)

3. Ravenwing are AWESOME, Librarian is AWESOME (dynamic and dark), matching nicely my arrogant painted RW bikes (see blog)

4. Chaplain is fun but not amazing - head looks a bit 4/5th edition in terms of dynamcy and style. Where are the ripped up gothica robes? Very bulky too.

5. Deathwing are pretty nice - lovely to have dedicated plastics, but would have loved all robed and so just fall short of the BA space hullk termies for really eeking out a sense of personality for the deathwing. HOWEVER, the feathers making it in are a massive boon to me from anyone who knows my Deathwing force (See blog). Still could have been a bit more dynamic.

6. Tactical Sergeant is very Ultramarine looking though fun. Company Master is over robed even for me!

7. Booo - non robed tactical marines - How am I going to fit them in my all robed army I ask thee?

8. What do you all think?

E_E

I wish there were an easy way to convert them to chaos so I could just get one big chaos army from the boxed set.

 Lotus wrote:
I wish there were an easy way to convert them to chaos so I could just get one big chaos army from the boxed set.

Its what Im doing

Just remove both shoulder iconography, headswap, add some chaos bits for tacs
For terms, battle damage, trophy racks, extra bits
Etc

I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

I agree with Battle Brother Lucifer. I am looking to shave off the Dark Angels iconography so that I can redeem these models into my Angels Sanguine chapter.

When the shipment arrives and I open the box, I will make a decision. If the iconography is too heavy to be taken off, I will have some Dark Angels allies.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

As long as they keep enough supplied to allow new players to purchase them, what is the problem? Is an army better if it was made using boxes of tactical marines instead of starter set marines?

Mattman154 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

As long as they keep enough supplied to allow new players to purchase them, what is the problem? Is an army better if it was made using boxes of tactical marines instead of starter set marines?

This isn't a question of "better" or "worse".

It's a question of purpose.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

Or maybe they exist, at the price point they do, because GW can count on moving a lot of them?

40k (and WHFB) thrive on having a lot of models in the ecosystem. The more single-use a model is, the fewer people will purchase it. Given that the "starter" boxes having a better model count/price ratio than ANYTHING ELSE GW SELLS, a dollar spent buying non-starter boxes puts fewer models into the ecosystem than a dollar spent on the starter boxes.

ellis_esquire wrote:

3. Ravenwing are AWESOME, Librarian is AWESOME (dynamic and dark), matching nicely my arrogant painted RW bikes (see blog)

This is one of my favorite models in the box and certainly my favorite Dark Angel in the box.

ellis_esquire wrote:

4. Chaplain is fun but not amazing - head looks a bit 4/5th edition in terms of dynamcy and style. Where are the ripped up gothica robes? Very bulky too.

Not really sure what you mean by 4/5th edition looking. All the current chaplains are from these editions so he fits right in with all the other chaplains.

ellis_esquire wrote:

5. Deathwing are pretty nice - lovely to have dedicated plastics, but would have loved all robed and so just fall short of the BA space hullk termies for really eeking out a sense of personality for the deathwing. HOWEVER, the feathers making it in are a massive boon to me from anyone who knows my Deathwing force (See blog). Still could have been a bit more dynamic.

Not impressed with these. They aren't even close to the level of detail as the Space Hulk terminators.

ellis_esquire wrote:

6. Tactical Sergeant is very Ultramarine looking though fun. Company Master is over robed even for me!

Again, not sure what you mean here. He is wearing a full tabard so doesn't look anything like an Ultramarine. Does look a lot like a Black Templar to me and I can see some interesting conversions based on this model.

ellis_esquire wrote:

7. Booo - non robed tactical marines - How am I going to fit them in my all robed army I ask thee?

Dark Angels tactical marines are not supposed to have robes. It is the veterans that are supposed to be robed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

That lirerally makes no sense.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

Ludicrous? Hmm. A word that would be better applied to the prices of the non-starter models which made the starter models so attractive, perhaps?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

As long as they keep enough supplied to allow new players to purchase them, what is the problem? Is an army better if it was made using boxes of tactical marines instead of starter set marines?

This isn't a question of "better" or "worse".

It's a question of purpose.

The purpose? There are multiple purposes obviously. One is to provide a good intro starter set for new people and the other is to provide people with cheap models for building an army. I'm suprosed someone who has been in the hobby as long as you have doesn't understand that. The starter sets are meant to be useful to the beginner and people who want to use it to build armies.

brettz123 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

As long as they keep enough supplied to allow new players to purchase them, what is the problem? Is an army better if it was made using boxes of tactical marines instead of starter set marines?

This isn't a question of "better" or "worse".

It's a question of purpose.

The purpose? There are multiple purposes obviously. One is to provide a good intro starter set for new people and the other is to provide people with cheap models for building an army. I'm suprosed someone who has been in the hobby as long as you have doesn't understand that. The starter sets are meant to be useful to the beginner and people who want to use it to build armies.

Oh no, I quite understand that starter sets are good intros for "new people" and that it is to provide people with cheap models for building an army.

What you're not grasping is that the point of the box set is not to be purchased multiple times for you to field an entire force without ever going outside of the starter box.

Bear in mind of course, this is all my opinion. I find the idea of "starter box armies" to be a wee bit silly.

Not because of the models or anything such as that, because I am aware of the fact that some units are not actually available beyond the starter boxes (The new style Lothern Sea Guard, Swordmasters, Ellyrion Reavers, etc) but rather because in my opinion people continually buying them gives the idea to the company that people are willing to put up with this idea of "exclusive" crap. The same thing is bugging me about Infinity with several of the key models being only available in certain starter box sets with no availability beyond that.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Oh no, I quite understand that starter sets are good intros for "new people" and that it is to provide people with cheap models for building an army.

What you're not grasping is that the point of the box set is not to be purchased multiple times for you to field an entire force without ever going outside of the starter box.

Bear in mind of course, this is all my opinion. I find the idea of "starter box armies" to be a wee bit silly.

Not because of the models or anything such as that, because I am aware of the fact that some units are not actually available beyond the starter boxes (The new style Lothern Sea Guard, Swordmasters, Ellyrion Reavers, etc) but rather because in my opinion people continually buying them gives the idea to the company that people are willing to put up with this idea of "exclusive" crap. The same thing is bugging me about Infinity with several of the key models being only available in certain starter box sets with no availability beyond that.

I think you have two different points.

Point 1: People buying multiple sets to build armies.

I think this is a good thing because if I want to build a Dark Angels and a Chaos army buying 2 of these is good value for the money and gets you a lot of good stuff.


Point 2: Models you can only buy in the starter set

I agree with you on this one. I don't mind not being able to buy the captain or the any of the "special" characters that are in the starter set BUT I don't like not being able to buy the normal models like the cultists, tactical marines, and terminators. I understand why you can't but it would be nice to be able to get more without buying the boxed set again.

At least with Games Workshop these guys don't have any special role / function in the game that another model cannot fulfil. My understanding with Infinity is that this is not case. This would make it very annoying to have to buy a starter to get a specific model.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

As long as they keep enough supplied to allow new players to purchase them, what is the problem? Is an army better if it was made using boxes of tactical marines instead of starter set marines?

This isn't a question of "better" or "worse".

It's a question of purpose.

Sorry, that doesn't fly. Direct from GW's site:


Guess that means they want anyone and everyone to buy as much of their product as they can!

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

Yeah. How dare you people spend YOUR money on something and use it the way YOU want to!

GW promotes conversions, Kanluwen. You're taking a bit of a stretch on the Anti "Anti-GW" stance, even for you.


Eric

I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

This is rather irrational.

I love the new models myself, been really looking forward to the box set

 MagickalMemories wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

Yeah. How dare you people spend YOUR money on something and use it the way YOU want to!

GW promotes conversions, Kanluwen. You're taking a bit of a stretch on the Anti "Anti-GW" stance, even for you.


Eric

Eric:
My problem is not that people want to get the cheapest value for their money.
My problem is that people have been complaining about the way the Marine force within was done, differentiating this starter box from the previous one where it was no big deal to turn those models into easy fodder for any Marine force.

I'm quite glad that they made it so that it is very clearly "Dark Angels" involved, instead of "Generic Marines". The argument is continually made that there is nothing special about Dark Angels in their appearance or organizational structure and thus no need for a Codex, but this does a fairly good job of making it clear what they are used for.

Far enough, but the presence of this comment:

It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

makes it look more like you don't feel that people should be buying these armies and converting them for something they weren't "meant" to be, solely so they could get armies on the cheap.

Eric

brettz123 wrote:
Point 2: Models you can only buy in the starter set

I agree with you on this one. I don't mind not being able to buy the captain or the any of the "special" characters that are in the starter set BUT I don't like not being able to buy the normal models like the cultists, tactical marines, and terminators. I understand why you can't but it would be nice to be able to get more without buying the boxed set again.

We need to wait really to see what will be 'exclusive' to the starter set. Tactical and terminator squads? Pretty sure they're available from GW right now.

I think the type of stuff Kanluwen was complaining about was the Ork Deffcoptas (same with High Elf stuff he mentioned) that aren't available outside of the starter except for very, very old metal or finecast models. Basically, you buy the starter models or decades old finecast stuff.

There's been speculation on what will remain 'exclusive' to Dark Vengeance. The most likely I've heard is either the Chosen or the Hellbrute with this specific weapon loadout, and obviously the characters. But really, right now we just don't know, and won't until those codices get released.

I love most everything in the box. The only module I'm not a fan of is commander. It just looks goofy to me. I think it's the helmet that puts me off the most. The only other bad thing I would say was that I was a little disappointed with the dark angel detail.

Looking at the chaos side you can really see the detail. See all the love they put into the sculpts. Then if you look at the DA side it seems kinda bland some how. There's still detail there but it doesnt look like they put that extra effort into them.

The Chaos models will go to my new Chaos army.

The DA models will be stripped of insignia as best I can and used with my Black Templars.

I'll definitely be buying more cultists and Hellbrutes from bit-sellers in the future so that I can run mobs of cultist fodder in front of my Chaos Legionnaires!

Well, it was never easier to build up a DA for little money. The starter box provides a good starting point. I figured that the units of the starter set are offered at ebay for cheap. This makes is easy to get a DA army with all the possible wings.

You can just sculpt GS robes but tacs are not too good in the current DA codex I believe. Never used them though

The Master dissapointed me. I saw someone else mention it on here, and even trying to be careful as I clipped the head from the sprue one of the wing tips snapped right off the helmet. Less then pleased with that.

The rest of the set I've really enjoyed.

 -Loki- wrote:

brettz123 wrote:
Point 2: Models you can only buy in the starter set

I agree with you on this one. I don't mind not being able to buy the captain or the any of the "special" characters that are in the starter set BUT I don't like not being able to buy the normal models like the cultists, tactical marines, and terminators. I understand why you can't but it would be nice to be able to get more without buying the boxed set again.

We need to wait really to see what will be 'exclusive' to the starter set. Tactical and terminator squads? Pretty sure they're available from GW right now.

.

I understand what you mean but what I meant was these terminators and these tactical marines will most likely not be available anywhere else and that is a shame.

There were Dark Angels in the box? I thought they were all Chaos, some just hadn't been spikied up yet and were more "do it yourself" flavored.

Seriously I like all the models. The only one that seems a bit strange is the cloaked DA character. His backpack just doesn't go with that cloak, it doesn't even seem to sit in the correct spot.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm glad they cannot be easily converted. It's ludicrous that people were buying Assault on Black Reach for "cheap" armies, and selling/trading off whatever else was inside.

They are starter boxes. The point is to introduce players to the game and provide the start of a force, not provide you with a cheap alternatives for models.

As long as they keep enough supplied to allow new players to purchase them, what is the problem? Is an army better if it was made using boxes of tactical marines instead of starter set marines?

This isn't a question of "better" or "worse".

It's a question of purpose.

I rather thought the purpose was to make money. Of course there is some secondary bit about the consumer being able to do whatever he wants to do with the product.

i think a starter box should be vanilla marines to give the person flexibility to start whatever marine chapter they want.

i also dont like the over stuffed detailing. for those planing to cut all that dark angels crap off all i can say is... HAVE FUN.

and have fun painted all those details! let me know in a few years when you finish it!

God damn, I just finished cutting the massive DA symbol of the chappys cape, took forever