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so most people have probably abandoned WWP list in 6th, (especially if they didnt even use it in 5th) but I still think its a viable option that just needs more careful planning ahead of time. So how would you guys run a WWP list with the restrictions of 6th edition? Im thinking mass kabalite squads w/ SCs, blasterborn backing them up and at least one large squad of beasts would be a good base. I would also probably add the baron in with the beasts as a huge squad of them charging would probably bring a bit of attention. Let me know what use guys would run!

They can't charge the turn they come in from the portal anymore. I don't think I'd bother with having anything choppy pop out of one.

Which leaves shooting. What are you really gaining with a WWP that venom/raider spam can't get you better?

 Ailaros wrote:
They can't charge the turn they come in from the portal anymore. I don't think I'd bother with having anything choppy pop out of one.

Which leaves shooting. What are you really gaining with a WWP that venom/raider spam can't get you better?

Pretty much this, sadly. There is just nothing a pure WWP list can do that a normal list can't do better.

If I have to use WWP, I'd probably use WWP as a secondary tool(not a primary tool as in WWP lists of 5th), to bring Talos/Cronos/Grotesques(5+) up from reserve, with the rest of the army on the table from the get go, former two can do shootings out of the portal, latter can survive a turn of hitting, and you've just reduced a turn(at least) of shooting on them by keeping them in reserve. But question comes... how many WWP do I use? One is too predictable, two or more is too costly. And, having the aforementioned units on the table from turn 1 also give you another advantage, they can be fire magnets to keep our other units safe... So I probably won't ever use it.

Web way portal ever since the new codex has pretty much been pointless,

as no vehicles can come through, , and You can't hold units back as webway only reserves kills it.

As only people on foot can come through the enamy just backs up a little bit from it or points things with templates in that direction and destroys what ever comess through.

You have to drop it first turn because you can't risk your foot troops walking on the back board, means you can't even get it into their lines so it's likely to be mid field. Add in only HQ's can carry them you have to put even more points into.

Even worse you can't charge now meaning even if the enamy gets close to it they don't have to worry about CC unit surprise which is why you want to bring weways.

Maybe start with Eldrad & 3 liquifier haemies inside a harlequin unit. That counts for 5 units that can reserve + de aircraft so it's basically a fulll reserve - the harlequin mini star.

Haemi detaches, goes forward 6" pops, a webway, and hides behind it. Star advances 6" and runs with the intent of dropping a 2nd portal on turn 2.

Solid delivery and de aircraft and de mech just about anything. The problem is now what? Choppy units are useless for a turn after they come out, so use shooting units.

Kabalite warriors in large block shooting at a unit Eldrad dooms is bad news. The 3 haemies can then start detaching and moving pain tokens to the kabalite warriors. The question is with the rapid fire changes can kabalite warriors work in large units.

Thanks for all the posts guys, you make a lot of valid points.

I do still think there are advantages with using wwps though. statistically speaking a venom w/ 2 SCs and not even including the mandatory unit inside wouldnt avg. as many wounds as a squad of kabalite warriors in rapid fire range equal to the same points value, but the only way a foot slogging kabal unit will get in rapid fire range fast enough is through wwps.

Now the beast unit with the baron would start the game already deployed and depending on the point value of the game there probably would be a second slightly smaller beast unit too.

So the overall idea would be the kabalite squads and blasterborn come in from the wwps getting cover from the beast squads that are ahead of them, I would also have probably at least 2 talos's in there too. Next the kabalite squads move up to get into rapid fire range assuming they arent quite in it yet, and the blasterborn units position themselves right behind them. Now the blasterborn and talos's unleash their shots first, hopefully popping at least a couple of transports. Next the kabalite squads unleash their massive ammount of firepower most likely decimating the exposed units and gaining fnp, and if not the beasts will eat whatever is left over. And then once the next turn comes around the talos's will be able to destroy whatever meq your opponent has left over and you just simply repeat the steps above until theres no one left to repeat it on.

You take WWP lists if you want to field infantry units larger than 10 models. I.E. 15 Wyches or 20 Kabalite Warriors. I'm one of the people that would actually field a list spamming DE infantry, but in all honesty I can't really see it as a preferred way of playing to just spamming venoms and raiders... :/

I like it for a reaver deployment, but if I did it I would go all out. 2-3 full units of reavers and just use bladevane attacks. Or failing that letting them start from mid field should let them get into position for ideal heat lance shots if there are no infantry on the table to make the bladevane attacks against. Coming in from the back edge, 36" can usually reach where they need to. 36" from the center of the table and they can reach anywhere.

I also wouldn't be adverse to sending a large beast pack or a full grots unit though it. It may have to sit around for a turn, but both have the wounds to give, and again, starting from the mid point is better than having to hoof it from the table edge.

20 warriors w/2 SCs - 48 shots if you get into 12" range, 28 shots if not. 52 shots if you're both within 12" range and your SC models managed to stay stationary, which means you need to wait a turn after they've entered through the portal. Let's not talk about the chance of you getting that 52 shots off, because I highly doubt you'd still have a full unit after a turn of waiting in the open, but let's talk about how you manage to get into that 12" range. We've lost 2" on transport disembark this edition, and with the improved odds of rolling reserve, you're hard pressed to put your WWP down on the 1st turn(as mentioned), so you're looking at getting your WWPs onto the midfield, furthest. Now, how many army out there will then move into 18" of those portals and wait for your warriors to come out? The venom's advantage over a 20 warriors blob isn't the volume of fire, don't need to be a mathematician to know that, but that they're on the table on 1st turn and they shoot 36"-48", meaning you can soften the attack that will come at you on your enemy's 1st turn.

For minimum, you'll need 50% of your force on the table, and they cannot absolutely be wiped out before the mass of your force hits, I don't know what point you're looking at, but the cheapest I could think of for WWP placer unit is haemy + wracks + venom at 170pts, no upgrades what-so-ever, totally suicidal, but WWP placers are most likely dead anyway... Then you're left with a split of points for units that need to survive at least a turn of fires, and big blobs of warriors waiting to come out of the portals. Those beasts aren't gonna last very long either, because there are 3 venoms full of disposable wracks, haemies and then the beast blobs, your enemy is gonna have a hard time not pointing all their guns at the beasts... But the new nightfighting chance might help you a little here.

Buuut let's say your opponent lets a non-vehicle unit get close to the portal, and you get to fire those 48 shots out of the portal, are you really doing all the hurts...?

48 shots - 32 hits - 16 wounds
2+ - 2.67 dead
3+ - 5.33
4+ - 8
5++ - 10.67
6++ - 13.33

... You can decide for yourself if it's worth the cost, factor in WWP placers, the other 50% of bullet magnets waiting on your main force, etc, then compare with a normal shooting list.

As for footlogging blasterborns, I return you to Ailaros's post, what's 4 marching blasterborns that can do better than 4 blasterborns that're mounted on venom?

Don't think in a vacuum, think how your opponent will react to what you're doing, think "if I'm facing this list, what will I do? Will I move up close to the portals to eat a mass of poisoned fire?", if the answer is "I'll move my vehicles up to block their path/line of sight then fire everything at whatever is on the table, because those marching kabalites'll have no way in harming my vehicles." or something similar, then you know your tactic won't work.

5th ed WWP worked because of several reasons, 1st of all, you can reserve everything, you don't lose the game for having nothing on the table. Secondly, we could assault out of the portals, large number of wyches worked because agoniser was "ignore armour", hekatrix didn't get challenge-locked, and wyches didn't have to eat overwatch. Thirdly, the worse reserve roll, better transport disembark distance etc actually allowed us to place the portals further in, allowing for a chance to actually come out at a threatening range. But it was still a high risk game to play, at the very least though, it was a high risk high reward game, while 6th ed full on WWP list is just a high risk low reward game.

But if you still want to run it after all these, then go ahead, and I wish you the best of luck.

Has anyone considered using the portal as an entry point for the shorter ranged guns (like blasters) at your disposal? 4 warrior units of 10 with DL and 2 haemi start on the table. Then bring on the blaster born, reavers and whatever else that packs a lot of guns.

Scourges coming out of a WWP seem an obvious choice to me. They get up table and get their guns in range without being shot. And people can't block their exit from the portal because they Jump.

I like Schadenfreude's suggestion, though.

ya im with you Lukus83 im not saying theres only one way to use wwps, theres many ways even if its not the key focus of your list. I just dont think people should just trash it and result back to using super unimaginative venom spam, I mean seriously guys there are other ways of using dark eldar

There are, myself for example is building a list that involves having 2 super high cost HQ assault units and talos(No flyer either, can you believe that?!) at 1500pts, simply because I want to. One of them being huskblade archon + incubi and Lelith + grotesques... Just because venom spam is literally the best list for DE(since 5th ed, really), it doesn't mean venom is to be avoided at all cost if you don't want venom spam, the venoms are innocent! If you really are to avoid everything popular then you'll end up running Kheradruakh...

I'll admit, I had never considered using eldars as Schadenfreude has mentioned, as I'm not that interested in allies, so that thought never popped up in my head... And WWPing scourges is quite a good idea as well, I usually deep strike my scourges, but WWP give them the safe distance and avoiding deep strike scatter at the same time, might be worth considering, I guess... HWB scourges don't care about front/side/rear anyway!

The webway portal costs are fixed, about 150 points for the haemi, portal and delivery system.

At larger point levels having table edge be right next to objectives can be useful.

 Exergy wrote:
The webway portal costs are fixed, about 150 points for the haemi, portal and delivery system.

At larger point levels having table edge be right next to objectives can be useful.

How about I take 6 Haemi, each with a web way. Then I pop open all the web ways in a circle around the objective. Isn't the webway impassable to the enemy?
Doesn't that make it impossible for him to get to the objective?

Scourge with heat lances (134 points is cheap for what you get) is awesome popping out where you need them.
I'd look at added 2 web ways to a normal list, and dropping them off. Having a few small cheap units in reserve and coming in where you need them isn't that bad for ~35 points per portal. It's not like you aren't taking HQ's anyway.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
It's not like you aren't taking HQ's anyway.
-Matt

It's not the fact that you need HQ to drop the webway. The problem is to drop the webway some where useful for foot units, your HQ will have to either be dedicated to this job, or detour meaning it will take him longer to do what you wanted or put him out of position and frequently killed after dropping the portal., and DE can't aford to go on short vacations around the battlefield.