Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can't cast the same power twice.

Noctem wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Two hours and I'l have the codex!
And a mawloc.

Nice nice, mine is downloading as we speak!

Is it your first Trygon/Mawloc model?

Yeah. I love the model, plus it's bigger then even the Tervigon.

 Absolutionis wrote:
From: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/44749/problem-why-codex-fail

Speaking about the codex today, a few things fall into place. One of the older members of the Stoke branch is regular play tester for the pre release codex's as he has a number of armies they use when the designers want to try out their rules. Well it turns out he basically advised the design team that the NID codex was far too week and he basically walked over their armies, so they kept adding and changing the rules until it became such a mess that they stopped play testing the book. The white dwarf article was done in the released format because it became obvious that things did not work. They even toned down the riptides load out and tailored the report so it looked as if the new NID's could stand up to the best units in the game. it was a lie.

They basically ran out of time to publish the codex. To make it right, they would likely have to start over again, and the old one was already way behind.

So somewhere along the line someone high up forced the release, the Models were obviously ready and the penny counters wanted a return, as it costs to sculpt, and they don't want molds sat there for another 6-12 months. The inventory was in supply or on order, so it had to be pushed out.

Add to this that the reason we don't have the doom or parasite or pod was a hang over of the chapter-house law suit. When that went to court GW decided that they would not be making these models as the cost of the molds and time was too expensive. So the safest way to remove influence from chapter-house, was to make any of the disputed models obsolete. Remove them from the codex.

We already had the design team at Nottingham give interviews saying they would put right the 5th edition codex, i wonder what they are going to say this time.

Its a sad time. Send in your complaints

For all your Customer Service enquiries call: +44 (0)115 91 40000

Customer Service opening hours:

Monday to Friday - 9.30am to 6.00pm

By Mail
Games Workshop
Direct Sales
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS

Wish we had some way to verify this.

It makes a lot of sense.

This seems like the sort of rumor that people are just desperate to believe.

I don't care if it's true or false, though, I think it's more important that so many people are convinced by it. However, I expect the grumbling will die down as the non-Tyranid players move onto the next flavour of the month so there won't be any fallout.

I'd like to believe that with enough attention, they might get some love but if that was the case, they wouldn't have done such a bad job in the first place.

I don't think this codex was written to sell new models, all the new toys got average rules at best (maybe not Tyrant Guard). If that was true, it would mean GW can't even do their shady pracctices properly.

It was written to stop other people selling models, perhaps, hence the loss of Spore Pods and Doom?

Thorgut wrote:

I'd like to believe that with enough attention, they might get some love but if that was the case, they wouldn't have done such a bad job in the first place.

They were the best selling xenos army before the 5th edition codex. Don't cling to the hope that good sales means you'll get a good codex.

Thorgut wrote:
This seems like the sort of rumor that people are just desperate to believe.

I don't care if it's true or false, though, I think it's more important that so many people are convinced by it. However, I expect the grumbling will die down as the non-Tyranid players move onto the next flavour of the month so there won't be any fallout.

I'd like to believe that with enough attention, they might get some love but if that was the case, they wouldn't have done such a bad job in the first place.

You mean like how the "grumbling died down" for the 5th edition 'Nid codex? That codex that to this day Tyranid players still hate mass trash-talk?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Thorgut wrote:
This seems like the sort of rumor that people are just desperate to believe.

I don't care if it's true or false, though, I think it's more important that so many people are convinced by it. However, I expect the grumbling will die down as the non-Tyranid players move onto the next flavour of the month so there won't be any fallout.

I'd like to believe that with enough attention, they might get some love but if that was the case, they wouldn't have done such a bad job in the first place.

You mean like how the "grumbling died down" for the 5th edition 'Nid codex? That codex that to this day Tyranid players still hate mass trash-talk?

Actually, as of ~Wednesday, we have been looking back on it with quiet fondness. Up until then you are of course correct.

Nerfs? In MY tyranid codex? It's more common then you think.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Thorgut wrote:
This seems like the sort of rumor that people are just desperate to believe.

I don't care if it's true or false, though, I think it's more important that so many people are convinced by it. However, I expect the grumbling will die down as the non-Tyranid players move onto the next flavour of the month so there won't be any fallout.

I'd like to believe that with enough attention, they might get some love but if that was the case, they wouldn't have done such a bad job in the first place.

You mean like how the "grumbling died down" for the 5th edition 'Nid codex? That codex that to this day Tyranid players still hate mass trash-talk?

Die down in the sense that it's not the focus any more as something new comes along, not that it's not justified nor that Tyranid players themselves will be satisfied. If 5th edition was as bad for Tyranids and GW didn't care, it's highly likely this will just be a repeat.

The codex isn't bad, it's just written with next edition in mind!

Plumbumbarum wrote:
I don't think this codex was written to sell new models, all the new toys got average rules at best (maybe not Tyrant Guard). If that was true, it would mean GW can't even do their shady pracctices properly.

Well not including the exocrine which is really good, I think this is explained by the fact that it wasn't fully playtested and just rushed out the gate. If it's not strong quite strong as it should be, what would they care? In a codex full of weak crap that just got weaker the Crone is likely enough to sell - its a new dragon why wouldn't it.

edit

Joyboozer wrote:
The codex isn't bad, it's just written with next edition in mind!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasp wheeze* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry, that's also a laugh at how bad this codex looks.

I really can't understand how anyone can still believe the whole "GW makes new models' rules OP" anymore, especially after nearly every codex release has had new models that were crap or mediocre at best (mutilators, warp talons, DA termies and fliers, tzeentch and khorne chariots, eldar fliers, tau fliers, centurions, vanguard veterans, now tyranid warriors and hive guard/tyrant guard!).

Yeah, that conspiracy has been so thoroughly debunked by this point I don't understand it either.

Joyboozer wrote:
The codex isn't bad, it's just written with next edition in mind!

I think it's just been more or less confirmed that it's not written with anything in mind.

Also, this is the kind of optimism that was shown when we, for example, first saw Warrior statline and special rules. "oh well they obviously haven't changed because the codex have been rules designed with them in mind with wargear that grant EW on Synapse"

And a million similar things. Forgive me if I've become a skeptic but I think I'll just express, that you can keep saying that it's NOT bad because of what you WISH to be real, I'm going to say that it IS bad because of what IS real.

Shuppet, I think Joyboozer was making a joke.

I don't want to harass anybody, but it might not hurt to politely express an interest in some Tyranid Dataslates to replace our lost characters and units on the GW Digital Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/GamesWorkshopDigitalEditions

The staff running it seem very friendly and have said many times they're receptive to hearing what fans want to see. If enough people articulate their desire to see rules for the Mycetic Spores, Doom, Parasite and Ymgarl Stealers, it might at least start a discussion within the digital team.

Similarly, Forge World has a Facebook page. It doesn't seem impossible to think that they could easily make a Mycetic Spore or resin upgrade kits to represent a Parasite, Doom or brood of Ymgarls. Along with the new models would come rules, which would allow us to play the converted models that many of us spent so much time and money on.

https://www.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK

The key is to have lots of people do it, but have them do it in a polite and persuasive manner - especially if they include pictures of well-converted and painted models from the dropped units, since the people running the page often comment on nicely-painted minis (if you want the rules back but don't have painted and converted minis, you can just post pictures of mine). Just an idea - if done well it certainly won't make anything worse!

Rest In Pieces...

Doom of Malan'Tai


Parasite of Mortrex


Ymgarl Genestealers


Mycetic Spore Pods

is it true that you only benefit from one set of weapons in combat? im trying to decide what would be best to run on my tyrant guard with the swarmlord. if I were to add swap the scytals for crushing claws, would that mean I have to pick to use either the crushing claws or the stock rending claws?

madmitch411 wrote:
is it true that you only benefit from one set of weapons in combat? im trying to decide what would be best to run on my tyrant guard with the swarmlord. if I were to add swap the scytals for crushing claws, would that mean I have to pick to use either the crushing claws or the stock rending claws?

You are correct. But you would still get the +1 attack for them. And really TG with crushing claws seem to be the best built. You either strike at initiative with rending or you strike at I1 with S6 AP2 armourbane.

Just discovered that a Carnie can get S9 ap- 6" assault 2 guns. Flesh hooks might be a little more useable that first expected.

Other weapon improvements that have been looked over:
The strangle web went from laughable to merely sucks.
All the throrax swarms got better.
Fleshborer hive got a 6" range boost

Got the new codex in hand and have read through it, here's the most notable stuff (much has been mentioned before):

The Good:
-Lots of stuff got much cheaper - Old One Eye - 220, Zoans - 50, venomthropes - 45, Carnifex - 120, Mawloc - 140, Tyrannofex - 175
-Nids finally have access to plasma (other than pricy carnifex upgrade) with the exocrine
-Mawloc burrow got much better with the chance to get 2 str6 ap2 large blasts that ignore cover, though if he cant fit on the board after both blasts he mishaps
-Shadow in the warp drops ld by 3, and not just for psychic tests
-Hormagaunts get +3 to run distance, rather than highest of 3d6
-If you have the extra fast slots, spore mines are cheap distractions that can do heavy damage if ignored
-Adrenal glands give fleet AND furious charge now
-Zoanthropes come with warp blast by default and can take an additional power from the nids codex
-Venomthropes now give shrouded rather than separate 5+ cover save
-Tervigon gives gants within 12 counterattack
-Tervigon and carnifex up to initiative 2
-Rending claws ap 5 by default
-Have access to some haywire weapons

The Bad:
-4+ saves with only t5 on new flyers makes them very vulnerable to quad guns
-No torrent on crones flamer weapon and its 4 haywire missiles are one-shot only
-Scything talons no longer reroll 1s to hit (but are ap6)
-Swarmlord is forced to have the 18" synapse warlord trait (which brings him to where he was but minus a warlord trait now), no longer forces invuln rerolls, and his own invuln is still melee only
-No biomancy for any units
-Breaking synapse is far more punishing
-Hive Tyrants old adversary does not spread to friendly units and now only affects melee
-Trygon prime effectively lost 6 ranged shots (formerly had both a 12 shot and 6 shot weapon, now just 12)
-Most bio artifacts seem too pricey for their power
-Tyranid Prime and Tervigon got big price hikes (45 and 35 respectively), and Tervigon now requires a squad of 30 gants to become a troop
-Still no cheap skyfire (only crone and flyrants have anything viable)
-Heavy section is very crowded, containing most of our best units (unless FAQ gives us expanded force org)
-Ymgarls, Doom, Pods, and Parasite gone
-Genestealers, rippers, and pyrovores are still abysmal. Raveners, warriors, and lictors still aren't viable.

The Questions:
-No mention of an expanded force organization chart or taking another tyranid detachment?
-No mention of not being able to take fortifications?
-Nothing about whether melee weapon effects stack (boneswords and rending claws namely)?

Still digesting everything, trying to decide how much I like all the changes. I definitely see zoanthropes, biovores, exocrines, and mawlocs being the meta units. Going to have to try out haruspex, new flyers, deathleaper, and old one eye to see how they play.

Perhaps a question I have has already been covered, but are my current Nids slotted now because of the new release or can I still finish painting them, and use them with the new codex?

Joyboozer wrote:
The codex isn't bad, it's just written with next edition in mind!

mind = blown

 Absolutionis wrote:
From: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/44749/problem-why-codex-fail

Speaking about the codex today, a few things fall into place. One of the older members of the Stoke branch is regular play tester for the pre release codex's as he has a number of armies they use when the designers want to try out their rules. Well it turns out he basically advised the design team that the NID codex was far too week and he basically walked over their armies, so they kept adding and changing the rules until it became such a mess that they stopped play testing the book. The white dwarf article was done in the released format because it became obvious that things did not work. They even toned down the riptides load out and tailored the report so it looked as if the new NID's could stand up to the best units in the game. it was a lie.

They basically ran out of time to publish the codex. To make it right, they would likely have to start over again, and the old one was already way behind.

So somewhere along the line someone high up forced the release, the Models were obviously ready and the penny counters wanted a return, as it costs to sculpt, and they don't want molds sat there for another 6-12 months. The inventory was in supply or on order, so it had to be pushed out.

Add to this that the reason we don't have the doom or parasite or pod was a hang over of the chapter-house law suit. When that went to court GW decided that they would not be making these models as the cost of the molds and time was too expensive. So the safest way to remove influence from chapter-house, was to make any of the disputed models obsolete. Remove them from the codex.

We already had the design team at Nottingham give interviews saying they would put right the 5th edition codex, i wonder what they are going to say this time.

Its a sad time. Send in your complaints

For all your Customer Service enquiries call: +44 (0)115 91 40000

Customer Service opening hours:

Monday to Friday - 9.30am to 6.00pm

By Mail
Games Workshop
Direct Sales
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS

If the play testing really had huge vulnerabilities it would have been easy to balance it.
Units dying to easy?
Add "It Will Not Die" to Catalyst.
Add "+1 T, Armor becomes Invul" to Domination.
Make Psychic Scream 12" instead of 6".
Done.

Having trouble with 2+ saves?
Exocrine now has Assault 12 or Assault 3 blast.
Fixed.

Flyers getting you down?
Exocrine's non-blast attack has skyfire.
All better.

Want to Sell more Warrior models?
-1 W. Cost: 15 instead of 30.
Sold!

With a rules set as detailed and complex as this, small adjustments can make a big difference.

Right now the dataslates are only hope. In retrospect, we should have seen the warning signs. The fact the rumors of them came so soon for tyranids makes me think GW would know what reaction this dex would get and the dataslates will essentially be our rule patches.

Nomnomifex wrote:
Got the new codex in hand and have read through it, here's the most notable stuff (much has been mentioned before):

The Good:
-Lots of stuff got much cheaper - Old One Eye - 220, Zoans - 50, venomthropes - 45, Carnifex - 120, Mawloc - 140, Tyrannofex - 175
-Nids finally have access to plasma (other than pricy carnifex upgrade) with the exocrine
-Mawloc burrow got much better with the chance to get 2 str6 ap2 large blasts that ignore cover, though if he cant fit on the board after both blasts he mishaps
-Shadow in the warp drops ld by 3, and not just for psychic tests
-Hormagaunts get +3 to run distance, rather than highest of 3d6
-If you have the extra fast slots, spore mines are cheap distractions that can do heavy damage if ignored
-Adrenal glands give fleet AND furious charge now
-Zoanthropes come with warp blast by default and can take an additional power from the nids codex
-Venomthropes now give shrouded rather than separate 5+ cover save
-Tervigon gives gants within 12 counterattack
-Tervigon and carnifex up to initiative 2
-Rending claws ap 5 by default
-Have access to some haywire weapons

The Bad:
-4+ saves with only t5 on new flyers makes them very vulnerable to quad guns
-No torrent on crones flamer weapon and its 4 haywire missiles are one-shot only
-Scything talons no longer reroll 1s to hit (but are ap6)
-Swarmlord is forced to have the 18" synapse warlord trait (which brings him to where he was but minus a warlord trait now), no longer forces invuln rerolls, and his own invuln is still melee only
-No biomancy for any units
-Breaking synapse is far more punishing
-Hive Tyrants old adversary does not spread to friendly units and now only affects melee
-Trygon prime effectively lost 6 ranged shots (formerly had both a 12 shot and 6 shot weapon, now just 12)
-Most bio artifacts seem too pricey for their power
-Tyranid Prime and Tervigon got big price hikes (45 and 35 respectively), and Tervigon now requires a squad of 30 gants to become a troop
-Still no cheap skyfire (only crone and flyrants have anything viable)
-Heavy section is very crowded, containing most of our best units (unless FAQ gives us expanded force org)
-Ymgarls, Doom, Pods, and Parasite gone
-Genestealers, rippers, and pyrovores are still abysmal. Raveners, warriors, and lictors still aren't viable.

The Questions:
-No mention of an expanded force organization chart or taking another tyranid detachment?
-No mention of not being able to take fortifications?
-Nothing about whether melee weapon effects stack (boneswords and rending claws namely)?

Still digesting everything, trying to decide how much I like all the changes. I definitely see zoanthropes, biovores, exocrines, and mawlocs being the meta units. Going to have to try out haruspex, new flyers, deathleaper, and old one eye to see how they play.

Most of this has been said already, the one thing I did pick up that you said about the Trygon Prime, they only had 12 shots before hand.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:Right now the dataslates are only hope. In retrospect, we should have seen the warning signs. The fact the rumors of them came so soon for tyranids makes me think GW would know what reaction this dex would get and the dataslates will essentially be our rule patches.

I think I'm going to shelve my nids for now. I'm cautiously optimistic that the vanguard data slate will make them playable. As it stands, from even a semi-competive standpoint, I don't think nids have what it takes to compete with even the middle of the pack armies.