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Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





So is the consensus that Genestealers, Raveners and Lictors suck?
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





South Florida

 jifel wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:
Got my book. Couple thoughts and things that caught my eye:

Deathleaper's -d3 Ld debuff can be used against any Character in your opponents army, rather than just the Warlord. So this allows you to selectively target a particularly problematic model, like a Ethereal, or the Farseer (of the pair) that has a particular power, like Fortune.

The Horror seems like it may be the key to making CC builds work. Being able to pin a unit down at 24" will actually allow us to catch the unit without being shot off the board or having it run away. Jetseer Council? Pin that thing down by blanketing it in Synapse, and Horror it till the game ends. Not reliable, but a nice strategy to deal with the unit, potentially?



Daemons and Jetbikes are immune to pinning, so yay. However, forcing morale checks on Jetseer units is very viable.


Oi!

Paroxsym is also a decent power for a foot list, as it will help mitigate mid-range firepower as you run down their throats. Also useful for Flyrants to prevent the benefits of Skyfire, etc. A Flyrant or ground psychic support could help out Tyranid air not get shot down by Quad-Guns, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/11 02:52:29


   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





rollawaythestone wrote:
Got my book. Couple thoughts and things that caught my eye:

Deathleaper's -d3 Ld debuff can be used against any Character in your opponents army, rather than just the Warlord. So this allows you to selectively target a particularly problematic model, like a Ethereal, or the Farseer (of the pair) that has a particular power, like Fortune.

The Horror seems like it may be the key to making CC builds work. Being able to pin a unit down at 24" will actually allow us to catch the unit without being shot off the board or having it run away. Jetseer Council? Pin that thing down by blanketing it in Synapse, and Horror it till the game ends. Not reliable, but a nice strategy to deal with the unit, potentially?



Unreliable to say the least considering how much fearless there is. Might work thought but how does Synapse help sorry?

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





South Florida

 SHUPPET wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:
Got my book. Couple thoughts and things that caught my eye:

Deathleaper's -d3 Ld debuff can be used against any Character in your opponents army, rather than just the Warlord. So this allows you to selectively target a particularly problematic model, like a Ethereal, or the Farseer (of the pair) that has a particular power, like Fortune.

The Horror seems like it may be the key to making CC builds work. Being able to pin a unit down at 24" will actually allow us to catch the unit without being shot off the board or having it run away. Jetseer Council? Pin that thing down by blanketing it in Synapse, and Horror it till the game ends. Not reliable, but a nice strategy to deal with the unit, potentially?



Unreliable to say the least considering how much fearless there is. Might work thought but how does Synapse help sorry?


SitW gives -3 LD to any Psyker in range. All the Warlocks, Farseer, etc, get bumped down. Wrote synapse, meant Shadows.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/11 02:53:29


   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Sadly the question will be brought up again on if Maledictions stack. For example, if Paroxysm stacks and you roll it twice, it could be BRUTAL. There's no limit on reducing BS/WS to 0, and if it gets to 0 it can't attack. So Riptide? Roll a 5/6 and the thing literally can not fire guns. Same with Markerlights. If it stacks, then the odds of "removing" a units shooting go up dramatically. I mean just imagine the look on a Taudar players face when his Riptide is literally incapable of shooting for a turn, or intercepting. Paroxysm is the hidden gem of the Psychic chart, and is just as good as Catalyst.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/11 02:58:43



 
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
So is the consensus that Genestealers, Raveners and Lictors suck?


Genestealers got more viable only in the sense that our troop options got worse. Ravener's recieved a slight nerf and still suck, just slightly harder. Lictors are better than last edition but still suck.

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






rollawaythestone wrote:
Got my book. Couple thoughts and things that caught my eye:

Deathleaper's -d3 Ld debuff can be used against any Character in your opponents army, rather than just the Warlord. So this allows you to selectively target a particularly problematic model, like a Ethereal, or the Farseer (of the pair) that has a particular power, like Fortune.

The Horror seems like it may be the key to making CC builds work. Being able to pin a unit down at 24" will actually allow us to catch the unit without being shot off the board or having it run away. Jetseer Council? Pin that thing down by blanketing it in Synapse, and Horror it till the game ends. Not reliable, but a nice strategy to deal with the unit, potentially?


Don't forget that the only psyker we have on par with a Farseer is the Swarmlord, so they'll be DtWing on a 4+.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





South Florida

 jifel wrote:
Sadly the question will be brought up again on if Maledictions stack. For example, if Paroxysm stacks and you roll it twice, it could be BRUTAL. There's no limit on reducing BS/WS to 0, and if it gets to 0 it can't attack. So Riptide? Roll a 5/6 and the thing literally can not fire guns. Same with Markerlights. If it stacks, then the odds of "removing" a units shooting go up dramatically. I mean just imagine the look on a Taudar players face when his Riptide is literally incapable of shooting for a turn, or intercepting. Paroxysm is the hidden gem of the Psychic chart, and is just as good as Catalyst.


Agree with you here. Honestly, I think the new nid book isn't so hot, but it's not like i'm going to quit my army. Now we need to try and make the best of it by thinking deeply about what they gave us.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 jifel wrote:
Sadly the question will be brought up again on if Maledictions stack. For example, if Paroxysm stacks and you roll it twice, it could be BRUTAL. There's no limit on reducing BS/WS to 0, and if it gets to 0 it can't attack. So Riptide? Roll a 5/6 and the thing literally can not fire guns. Same with Markerlights. If it stacks, then the odds of "removing" a units shooting go up dramatically. I mean just imagine the look on a Taudar players face when his Riptide is literally incapable of shooting for a turn, or intercepting. Paroxysm is the hidden gem of the Psychic chart, and is just as good as Catalyst.

Actually as someone pointed out to me when I had the same thought, the section on Maledictions specifically states they can't reduce stats below 1.
   
Made in jp
Sinewy Scourge






USA

 jifel wrote:
Sadly the question will be brought up again on if Maledictions stack. For example, if Paroxysm stacks and you roll it twice, it could be BRUTAL. There's no limit on reducing BS/WS to 0, and if it gets to 0 it can't attack. So Riptide? Roll a 5/6 and the thing literally can not fire guns. Same with Markerlights. If it stacks, then the odds of "removing" a units shooting go up dramatically. I mean just imagine the look on a Taudar players face when his Riptide is literally incapable of shooting for a turn, or intercepting. Paroxysm is the hidden gem of the Psychic chart, and is just as good as Catalyst.


I disagree and think you are grasping. Your scenario is filled with randomness. I don't subscribe to the notion that randomness = zany fun times. Paroxysm is mediocre and far from a gem, hidden or otherwise.

"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams

AesSedai's guide to building a custom glass display case for your figures

Kabal of the Twisting Abyss--Blog Laenea, A Tendril of Hive Fleet Hydra--Blog

Always looking for games in/near Raleigh! 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





South Florida

 AesSedai wrote:
 jifel wrote:
Sadly the question will be brought up again on if Maledictions stack. For example, if Paroxysm stacks and you roll it twice, it could be BRUTAL. There's no limit on reducing BS/WS to 0, and if it gets to 0 it can't attack. So Riptide? Roll a 5/6 and the thing literally can not fire guns. Same with Markerlights. If it stacks, then the odds of "removing" a units shooting go up dramatically. I mean just imagine the look on a Taudar players face when his Riptide is literally incapable of shooting for a turn, or intercepting. Paroxysm is the hidden gem of the Psychic chart, and is just as good as Catalyst.


I disagree and think you are grasping. Your scenario is filled with randomness. I don't subscribe to the notion that randomness = zany fun times. Paroxysm is mediocre and far from a gem, hidden or otherwise.


Other than rolling up Paroxysm, it's hardly random to get it off against anything that doesn't have an improved DtW. If I happen to roll Paroxsym, I doubt I would trade it in for Dominion.It's a decent utility power if you happen to roll it. Basing a grand strategy on it, is of course, not reliable, but the power itself is decent.

   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

 streamdragon wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:
Got my book. Couple thoughts and things that caught my eye:

Deathleaper's -d3 Ld debuff can be used against any Character in your opponents army, rather than just the Warlord. So this allows you to selectively target a particularly problematic model, like a Ethereal, or the Farseer (of the pair) that has a particular power, like Fortune.

The Horror seems like it may be the key to making CC builds work. Being able to pin a unit down at 24" will actually allow us to catch the unit without being shot off the board or having it run away. Jetseer Council? Pin that thing down by blanketing it in Synapse, and Horror it till the game ends. Not reliable, but a nice strategy to deal with the unit, potentially?


Don't forget that the only psyker we have on par with a Farseer is the Swarmlord, so they'll be DtWing on a 4+.


Deathleaper + SitW should be quite useful against a grimoire holder.

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





drorain wrote:
Yeah...so I'm pretty much going to ignore this codex, any nid player that wants to play me with their 5th ed is welcome too, treat the new mcs as you might a supplement.

I've heard a few other players saying they might proceed as such too.


So adding in the new MC's, will you be ignoring EVERYTHING from the new dex or will you be flying around with 225 pt ML 2 Biomancy TL Devourer Flyrants and pod dropping in 150 pt Dakkafex's?


 jifel wrote:
Sadly the question will be brought up again on if Maledictions stack. For example, if Paroxysm stacks and you roll it twice, it could be BRUTAL. There's no limit on reducing BS/WS to 0, and if it gets to 0 it can't attack. So Riptide? Roll a 5/6 and the thing literally can not fire guns. Same with Markerlights. If it stacks, then the odds of "removing" a units shooting go up dramatically. I mean just imagine the look on a Taudar players face when his Riptide is literally incapable of shooting for a turn, or intercepting. Paroxysm is the hidden gem of the Psychic chart, and is just as good as Catalyst.


^^Let me help you out here. ^^
 SHUPPET wrote:
 streamdragon wrote:

Paroxysm: Not entirely awful. The biggest thing is that it doesn't, for now, say "to a minimum of 1" anywhere. So theoretically you could use this to prevent a unit from shooting or striking in CC at all if they are BS or WS 3 or less.

Your opinion is pretty accurate and I think I agree with everything you said, just thought I'd point out for you that the part I quoted is in BRB p.68 that Maledictions are cumulative but cannot take characteristics above 10 or below 1.



I'll also help you out by letting you know that even if there was no limitations, the trade off for the consistency of being able to reduce two different units to snapshots and 5's in combat is nowhere near worth having to cast twice, and then get two nice rolls on top of that to possibly make 1 unit's weapons useless. For numerous reasons.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/11 03:21:08


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in jp
Sinewy Scourge






USA

rollawaythestone wrote:

Other than rolling up Paroxysm, it's hardly random to get it off against anything that doesn't have an improved DtW. If I happen to roll Paroxsym, I doubt I would trade it in for Dominion.It's a decent utility power if you happen to roll it. Basing a grand strategy on it, is of course, not reliable, but the power itself is decent.


First, you haven't taken into account the further *random* d3 result for paroxysm. Also saying that you doubt you would switch out Paroxysm for Dominion is not saying much. It's like saying I'd rather get hit by a car than fall off a building.

"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams

AesSedai's guide to building a custom glass display case for your figures

Kabal of the Twisting Abyss--Blog Laenea, A Tendril of Hive Fleet Hydra--Blog

Always looking for games in/near Raleigh! 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






rollawaythestone wrote:
 AesSedai wrote:
 jifel wrote:
Sadly the question will be brought up again on if Maledictions stack. For example, if Paroxysm stacks and you roll it twice, it could be BRUTAL. There's no limit on reducing BS/WS to 0, and if it gets to 0 it can't attack. So Riptide? Roll a 5/6 and the thing literally can not fire guns. Same with Markerlights. If it stacks, then the odds of "removing" a units shooting go up dramatically. I mean just imagine the look on a Taudar players face when his Riptide is literally incapable of shooting for a turn, or intercepting. Paroxysm is the hidden gem of the Psychic chart, and is just as good as Catalyst.


I disagree and think you are grasping. Your scenario is filled with randomness. I don't subscribe to the notion that randomness = zany fun times. Paroxysm is mediocre and far from a gem, hidden or otherwise.


Other than rolling up Paroxysm, it's hardly random to get it off against anything that doesn't have an improved DtW. If I happen to roll Paroxsym, I doubt I would trade it in for Dominion.It's a decent utility power if you happen to roll it. Basing a grand strategy on it, is of course, not reliable, but the power itself is decent.


Exactly. If you roll it vs Tau, then it will help a lot. (True on the cannot reduce to 0, however). Still, pass the check and get past the DtW (a 76% chance) and you now make Pathfinders snapshot on a 3+. That qualifies as "useful" to me. I'm saying its a gem because its being passed off as useless, and I think it is useful, I'm not saying it will save the codex. But, one more useful option is better than not. Also, you can use however many powers you roll, so why not? On a Flyrant, Catalyst is great, Warp Lance is ok, Paroxysm is good, the Horror is kinda good, Onslaught is kinda good, and the nova thing isn't good. 5/6 are genuinely useful. The Horror is pretty easy to pin a unit of pathfinders, they aren't high Ld. Paroxysm the same. Catalyst obviously is good, while Onslught increases his own range by an effective 2d6, while Warp lance is a FLYING SKYFIRE BS 4 STENGTH 10 LANCE. That will kill many flyers in the game, and various tanks. Even Dominion isn't bad, as the +6 makes your Flyrants useful for Synapse where ordinarily its easy to get out of range. Even spirit leech isn't bad if you have two fire warrior squads or such behind an Aegis.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AesSedai wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:

Other than rolling up Paroxysm, it's hardly random to get it off against anything that doesn't have an improved DtW. If I happen to roll Paroxsym, I doubt I would trade it in for Dominion.It's a decent utility power if you happen to roll it. Basing a grand strategy on it, is of course, not reliable, but the power itself is decent.


First, you haven't taken into account the further *random* d3 result for paroxysm. Also saying that you doubt you would switch out Paroxysm for Dominion is not saying much. It's like saying I'd rather get hit by a car than fall off a building.

It's not much more random than other powers. on a 3+ that is a SIGNIFICANT debuff to shooting on a unit, while on a 1-2 its still a decent hindrance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/11 03:22:15



 
   
Made in jp
Sinewy Scourge






USA

 jifel wrote:

Exactly. If you roll it vs Tau, then it will help a lot. (True on the cannot reduce to 0, however). Still, pass the check and get past the DtW (a 76% chance) and you now make Pathfinders snapshot on a 3+. That qualifies as "useful" to me. I'm saying its a gem because its being passed off as useless, and I think it is useful, I'm not saying it will save the codex. But, one more useful option is better than not. Also, you can use however many powers you roll, so why not? On a Flyrant, Catalyst is great, Warp Lance is ok, Paroxysm is good, the Horror is kinda good, Onslaught is kinda good, and the nova thing isn't good. 5/6 are genuinely useful. The Horror is pretty easy to pin a unit of pathfinders, they aren't high Ld. Paroxysm the same. Catalyst obviously is good, while Onslught increases his own range by an effective 2d6, while Warp lance is a FLYING SKYFIRE BS 4 STENGTH 10 LANCE. That will kill many flyers in the game, and various tanks. Even Dominion isn't bad, as the +6 makes your Flyrants useful for Synapse where ordinarily its easy to get out of range. Even spirit leech isn't bad if you have two fire warrior squads or such behind an Aegis.


I think you really should make the distinction between situationally useful and useful.

"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams

AesSedai's guide to building a custom glass display case for your figures

Kabal of the Twisting Abyss--Blog Laenea, A Tendril of Hive Fleet Hydra--Blog

Always looking for games in/near Raleigh! 
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





So how is anything you are saying making the power Paroxysm better than it was last codex?

Because I'll give you a tip, you guys are completely missing the point. It's effect has gone down in strength, saying that it hasn't is just foolish. On a roll of a 5 or 6, vs nothing with BS or WS higher than 4, you are lucky enough to achieve what the power did 100% of the time in the last codex, to anybody.

The real buff is the fact that it is now a malediction and not a witchfire. Meaning it doesn't count as firing a weapon, But if the effect power last codex was still not powerful enough to justify casting over firing 1 set of TL Devourers, and its only gotten noticeably worse since, I think it's safe to debunk any theories that this is the "hidden gem" of the codex that is going to bring it all together.


 AesSedai wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:

Other than rolling up Paroxysm, it's hardly random to get it off against anything that doesn't have an improved DtW. If I happen to roll Paroxsym, I doubt I would trade it in for Dominion.It's a decent utility power if you happen to roll it. Basing a grand strategy on it, is of course, not reliable, but the power itself is decent.


First, you haven't taken into account the further *random* d3 result for paroxysm. Also saying that you doubt you would switch out Paroxysm for Dominion is not saying much. It's like saying I'd rather get hit by a car than fall off a building.


Haha amazingly accurate for more than what you just , had to sig :d

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/11 03:36:45


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

I see a lot of complaints and a lot of negative remarks and some good. Could we make a compiled list of the posetive changes? I do not have the book so please coment if i am saying something wrong.

General
- A new warlord table is more options. Othervice use the one in the rulebook.
- The elite slot got freed up with heavy suport becoming cheaper?
- We have more flying units in more slots, some of the viable?
- We can now get more attacks by having more pairs of weapons.

Upgrades:
- All ouer big bugs can get fleet from adrenaline glands?
- Venom cannon is better vs vehicles?

HQ:
- Hive tyrant got a bit cheaper and he is now BS 4. (Good for shooting psykick powers.) Also flying dakka tyrants can take out airplanes more consistently?

Troops:
- Spamming Broolords means you can force people into failing some pinning tests redusing the need for frag grenades.?
- Warriors can get fleet with adrenaline glands and they can now take frag grenades?
- Cheaper small bugs?


Elite:
- A singel zonathrope i mastery level 2 and use 2 powers for 1 model?
- Lictors can start on the table?
- Venenom tropes became good again?

Fast Attack:
- Raveners also can take frag grenades?
- Presumably shrikes with adrenaline glands are also cool?
- Harpy is less sucky and more cheap. (Keep in mind it is a flying MC who can smash those tanks.)
- We have more options with skyfire?
- Spore mines are more interesting.

Heavy suport
- Carnifexes droped by 40 points, it is finaly viable to field them?
- Carnifexes have better inpact hits?
- The mawlock's burrowing attack got much more killier with 2 blast attacks S6 AP2. Also a price drop means he is relatiavly cheap T6 3+ save wounds?
- Trygon is cheaper ?
- Tyranofex is cheap enough to use. A coupel of torent shots and then it's mellee time?
- The spore mine shooter got indirect better?
- We got a new BS model if it does not move? (Or is he in elite?)

Some of the bad stuff besides (and yes there was a lot of bad stuff) I will say that some of this is quite good. Can anybody verify if I have understood this right?

Last time i really did a trial and error runn with my nids was during 5th edition, often vs shooty transport parkin lot lists. What always stood out for me was that I was paying to much points per wound. What littel made it across the board often did good, but it was to little to late. Perhaps the point decrease in big bodies was all we needed?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/11 03:37:00


   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine



Los Angeles, CA

Hmm, so for my Trygon kit I got, I'm really stuck between building it as a Trygon or Mawloc now... (not going to magnetize)

If I'm going to start off with a single Trygon/Mawloc in my army, which would be best given the new rules?

6400 Pts
4300 Pts
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3080 Pts 30k
2460 Pts AoS Chaos Grand Alliance
2680 Pts AoS Sylvaneth 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







 buddha wrote:
 streamdragon wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:
Got my book. Couple thoughts and things that caught my eye:

Deathleaper's -d3 Ld debuff can be used against any Character in your opponents army, rather than just the Warlord. So this allows you to selectively target a particularly problematic model, like a Ethereal, or the Farseer (of the pair) that has a particular power, like Fortune.

The Horror seems like it may be the key to making CC builds work. Being able to pin a unit down at 24" will actually allow us to catch the unit without being shot off the board or having it run away. Jetseer Council? Pin that thing down by blanketing it in Synapse, and Horror it till the game ends. Not reliable, but a nice strategy to deal with the unit, potentially?


Don't forget that the only psyker we have on par with a Farseer is the Swarmlord, so they'll be DtWing on a 4+.


Deathleaper + SitW should be quite useful against a grimoire holder.


Don't quite see how, the Grimoire isn't a psychic power, and no Ld tests are involved to use it.
   
Made in mx
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico


I wonder how a 2k double FOC Mawloc spam would work. 6 Mawlocs should be 840 points, that is 36 t6 +3 wounds that can deepstrike on top of enemies.
   
Made in jp
Sinewy Scourge






USA

 Niiai wrote:
I see a lot of complaints and a lot of negative remarks and some good. Could we make a compiled list of the posetive changes? I do not have the book so please coment if i am saying something wrong.

General
- A new warlord table is more options. Othervice use the one in the rulebook.
- The elite slot got freed up with heavy suport becoming cheaper?
- We have more flying units in more slots, some of the viable?
- We can now get more attacks by having more pairs of weapons.

Upgrades:
- All ouer big bugs can get fleet from adrenaline glands?
- Venom cannon is better vs vehicles?

HQ:
- Hive tyrant got a bit cheaper and he is now BS 4. (Good for shooting psykick powers.) Also flying dakka tyrants can take out airplanes more consistently?

Troops:
- Spamming Broolords means you can force people into failing some pinning tests redusing the need for frag grenades.?
- Warriors can get fleet with adrenaline glands and they can now take frag grenades?
- Cheaper small bugs?


Elite:
- A singel zonathrope i mastery level 2 and use 2 powers for 1 model?
- Lictors can start on the table?
- Venenom tropes became good again?

Fast Attack:
- Raveners also can take frag grenades?
- Presumably shrikes with adrenaline glands are also cool?
- Harpy is less sucky and more cheap. (Keep in mind it is a flying MC who can smash those tanks.)
- We have more options with skyfire?
- Spore mines are more interesting.

Heavy suport
- Carnifexes droped by 40 points, it is finaly viable to field them?
- Carnifexes have better inpact hits?
- The mawlock's burrowing attack got much more killier with 2 blast attacks S6 AP2. Also a price drop means he is relatiavly cheap T6 3+ save wounds?
- Trygon is cheaper ?
- Tyranofex is cheap enough to use. A coupel of torent shots and then it's mellee time?
- The spore mine shooter got indirect better?
- We got a new BS model if it does not move? (Or is he in elite?)

Some of the bad stuff besides (and yes there was a lot of bad stuff) I will say that some of this is quite good. Can anybody verify if I have understood this right?

Last time i really did a trial and error runn with my nids was during 5th edition, often vs shooty transport parkin lot lists. What always stood out for me was that I was paying to much points per wound. What littel made it across the board often did good, but it was to little to late. Perhaps the point decrease in big bodies was all we needed?


General
- The new warlord table is bad.
- I suppose this is true.
- I suppose this is true.
- No, it balances out.

Upgrades:
- Yes, afaik.
- 6/4, Hvy is 9/4

HQ:
- I suppose this is true.

Troops:
- suppose this is true.
- suppose this is true.
- suppose this is true.


Elite:
- No
- Yes
- Yes, though they always had a use. Better now.

Fast Attack:
- Dunno
-"Cool"? ...
- suppose this is true.
- Yes
- suppose this is true.

Heavy suport
- Yes
- Yes
- Yes
- Yes
- Yes, but only 1 torrent weapon.
- Hard to understand what you mean. Biovores are better. Spore mines more effective.
- Yes and it's heavy support.

"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams

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Northwest Central Florida

Ok, without being killed for not looking through 159 pages, what's the deal with the Foc missing from the Dex?

 
   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





Oshawa Ontario

 Niiai wrote:
I see a lot of complaints and a lot of negative remarks and some good. Could we make a compiled list of the posetive changes? I do not have the book so please coment if i am saying something wrong.

General
- A new warlord table is more options. Othervice use the one in the rulebook. All the special characters already have a warlord trait though...and the swarmlord's warlord trait is the +6" synapse...so technically he LOST his warlord trait, since he used to have the +6" built in and rolled for random one.
- The elite slot got freed up with heavy suport becoming cheaper? It got freed up via elimination of all the good elites....Doom and Ymgarls are just...gone. Zoans cannot pods so are sub-par at best, and hive guard got worse, but are still decent.
- We have more flying units in more slots, some of the viable? 1 more flier, and it's still fast attack. With the harpy still being abysmal we have the flying tyrant and the crone basically.
- We can now get more attacks by having more pairs of weapons. Not really....technically a melee tyrant or prime could have 1 more attack, but I'm not sure it's a great idea. Also, the loss of rerolls wrecked the last shred of ravener's viability and took out like 22% of the trygon's damage output. Also lost melee carnifexes something like 25% of their melee damage output....but at least they are 25% cheaper, so effectively do roughly the same amount of damage per point as they used (hint, that's not good)

Upgrades:
- All ouer big bugs can get fleet from adrenaline glands? If you wanna spend 15 points on fleet, sure.
- Venom cannon is better vs vehicles? The heavy venom cannon lost the -1 on the vehicle damage table, but it's still a poor weapon choice IMO.

HQ:
- Hive tyrant got a bit cheaper and he is now BS 4. (Good for shooting psykick powers.) Also flying dakka tyrants can take out airplanes more consistently? The Hive Tyrant got a boost to BS and a reduction in points, as well as mastery level 2, but lost biomancy....so basically a lateral move for him overall...maybe still a nerf due to how amazing biomancy was for him.

Troops:
- Spamming Broolords means you can force people into failing some pinning tests redusing the need for frag grenades.? This....doesn't work. Too many things are immune to pinning or have a high enough LD to not be bothered.
- Warriors can get fleet with adrenaline glands and they can now take frag grenades? Technically, yes. Warriors are still excessively expensive though.
- Cheaper small bugs? Yes AND no. The termigants went to 4 points each, and hormigants went to 5, so -1 point each. Hormigant's upgrade are more expensive now, so with the upgrades they have no change. Termigant upgrades DOUBLED in price from 1 to 2 each, making them 8 with AG and TS or 12 with devourers too. With the loss of tervigons giving out AG/TS, that means if you want to keep gaunts at the same level of effectiveness they are technically 3 more each. So you get to choose between cheaper and worse, or the same and more expensive.


Elite:
- A singel zonathrope i mastery level 2 and use 2 powers for 1 model? Nope. The powers he gets is Warp blast and 1 random. With warp blast being a 2 charge power, you can never cast both in the same turn.
- Lictors can start on the table?
- Venenom tropes became good again? I dunno about "again"....more like "for once", but yeah.

Fast Attack:
- Raveners also can take frag grenades? Not that i've heard.
- Presumably shrikes with adrenaline glands are also cool? Shrikes are literally no better than before...and I think twin bone swords and lashwhip/BS combo is more expensive too (from 10/15 to 15/20 I think?)
- Harpy is less sucky and more cheap. (Keep in mind it is a flying MC who can smash those tanks.) Still T5 with a 4+...aka quad-gun fodder. Hell, enfeeble and a failed grounding test turns them into a smear on the pavement.
- We have more options with skyfire? 1 more option.....The Crone's missiles, of which they have 4, and can only fire 2 per turn. Standard enemy doctrine will see these annihilated before they can get a volley off against flyers though.
- Spore mines are more interesting. Agreed, but biovores were always awesome, and the spore cluster was always bad.

Heavy suport
- Carnifexes droped by 40 points, it is finaly viable to field them? One of the few big winners in the new book IMO. I still don't think it's enough though.
- Carnifexes have better inpact hits? That....doesn't even matter. Against vehicles 4+ S9-S10 attacks are more than enough, and against anything with an armor save the 1 extra attack on average really isn't putting out anything significant damage wise.
- The mawlock's burrowing attack got much more killier with 2 blast attacks S6 AP2. Also a price drop means he is relatiavly cheap T6 3+ save wounds? I'm interested to see how people play these, but off-hand it's way too risky for my taste. Too likely to mishaps and suicide IMO.
- Trygon is cheaper ? 10 WHOLE POINTS! For the low low cost of ~22% of it's melee damage! No rerolls make me sad :(
- Tyranofex is cheap enough to use. A coupel of torent shots and then it's mellee time? Still 50+ points over costed IMO.
- The spore mine shooter got indirect better?
- We got a new BS model if it does not move? (Or is he in elite?) Exocrine. I'm on the fence with this guy. Heavy support is going to be packed, and with only 24" range, and comparing him to other shooting MCs in other books <cough> Riptide <cough> he doesn't stack up at all really.


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Terminator with Assault Cannon






brisbane, australia

Two hours and I'l have the codex!
And a mawloc.

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Los Angeles, CA

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Two hours and I'l have the codex!
And a mawloc.


Nice nice, mine is downloading as we speak!

Is it your first Trygon/Mawloc model?

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Noctem wrote:
Hmm, so for my Trygon kit I got, I'm really stuck between building it as a Trygon or Mawloc now... (not going to magnetize)

If I'm going to start off with a single Trygon/Mawloc in my army, which would be best given the new rules?


I would have to say the Mawloc.

Trygon costs 60 more points, but give you +2 WS, +2A. and 6 shots at S5 AP5 at BS3 the turn you arrive. This is the trade off for 2x S6 AP2 blasts wherever the Mawloc itself lands including directly in the middle of a unit, and the fact that you can literally buy 3 Mawlocs for the price of 2 Trygons.

The Trygon Prime is deepstriking Synapse and twice as many shots, but for more points than a Flyrant I'd say it's probably little that a Flyrant couldn't do better.


At the end of the day though, as far as similar kits go, well, they are the similar-est. Other than the head there is some differences with the tail or some gak i dont even know what they are, the difference between models isn't even as big as the difference between some space marine conversions ive seen, I think only strict Tournaments may not allow you to play each one as either. I'm actually curious to ask people, would your TO allow you to play a Trygon as a Mawloc?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/11 04:14:59


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NC

From: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/44749/problem-why-codex-fail

Speaking about the codex today, a few things fall into place. One of the older members of the Stoke branch is regular play tester for the pre release codex's as he has a number of armies they use when the designers want to try out their rules. Well it turns out he basically advised the design team that the NID codex was far too week and he basically walked over their armies, so they kept adding and changing the rules until it became such a mess that they stopped play testing the book. The white dwarf article was done in the released format because it became obvious that things did not work. They even toned down the riptides load out and tailored the report so it looked as if the new NID's could stand up to the best units in the game. it was a lie.

They basically ran out of time to publish the codex. To make it right, they would likely have to start over again, and the old one was already way behind.

So somewhere along the line someone high up forced the release, the Models were obviously ready and the penny counters wanted a return, as it costs to sculpt, and they don't want molds sat there for another 6-12 months. The inventory was in supply or on order, so it had to be pushed out.

Add to this that the reason we don't have the doom or parasite or pod was a hang over of the chapter-house law suit. When that went to court GW decided that they would not be making these models as the cost of the molds and time was too expensive. So the safest way to remove influence from chapter-house, was to make any of the disputed models obsolete. Remove them from the codex.

We already had the design team at Nottingham give interviews saying they would put right the 5th edition codex, i wonder what they are going to say this time.

Its a sad time. Send in your complaints

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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





 Absolutionis wrote:
From: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/44749/problem-why-codex-fail

Speaking about the codex today, a few things fall into place. One of the older members of the Stoke branch is regular play tester for the pre release codex's as he has a number of armies they use when the designers want to try out their rules. Well it turns out he basically advised the design team that the NID codex was far too week and he basically walked over their armies, so they kept adding and changing the rules until it became such a mess that they stopped play testing the book. The white dwarf article was done in the released format because it became obvious that things did not work. They even toned down the riptides load out and tailored the report so it looked as if the new NID's could stand up to the best units in the game. it was a lie.

They basically ran out of time to publish the codex. To make it right, they would likely have to start over again, and the old one was already way behind.

So somewhere along the line someone high up forced the release, the Models were obviously ready and the penny counters wanted a return, as it costs to sculpt, and they don't want molds sat there for another 6-12 months. The inventory was in supply or on order, so it had to be pushed out.

Add to this that the reason we don't have the doom or parasite or pod was a hang over of the chapter-house law suit. When that went to court GW decided that they would not be making these models as the cost of the molds and time was too expensive. So the safest way to remove influence from chapter-house, was to make any of the disputed models obsolete. Remove them from the codex.

We already had the design team at Nottingham give interviews saying they would put right the 5th edition codex, i wonder what they are going to say this time.

Its a sad time. Send in your complaints

For all your Customer Service enquiries call: +44 (0)115 91 40000

Customer Service opening hours:

Monday to Friday - 9.30am to 6.00pm

By Mail
Games Workshop
Direct Sales
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS


How am I not surprised at all? This actually sounds like more effort was put into this release to balance it than I thought. No exaggeration.

If you had told me an hour ago that an insider was going to speak out about the failings of the Codex, and asked me to predict what he was going to say it would have been this:

"New models were brought out, rules were made to sell them. Playtesting stretched as far as a doctored White Dwarf article. To continue the further sales of previous recent releases from the army, the more popular model in each dual kit was nerfed and/or the weaker one was given a point reduction, to help cash in as much as possible on the new dex. Thought was not put into creating unique army rules to compliment and justify the race itself, instead ideas such as Relics were thrown in because they are proven to work. Other than the flavor text and fluff, writing of the rules for this army began three weeks before the official release and were rushed through to sell models".

Oh hold on, that's basically what he is saying, in a slightly more conservative manner.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/11 04:28:37


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with Zoanthropes being ML2 with lance and a random ML1 power, if they choose to use the secondary power can they use it twice to use up both warp charges?

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