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Instead of Sanguinius, Russ fights Horus on the Vengeful Spirit. The Emperor is coming...
Certainly chaos imbued Horus would win 10/10, but I'm wondering how would Russ fair against "brightest star",would he put up more of a fight then Sang? Would he use some of the dirty fighting and cunning which he was known for....?
Bare in mind he did' beat him in sparring....so he knows little more of him then Sang....

Edit: Do you think any other Primarch could fair better like Khan,Vulkan,Corax or Lion?

If Sanguinuis, who was to my understanding a better fighter than Russ couldn't beat him, I seriously doubt Captain McWolferstien would stand a chance.

 Coolyo294 wrote:
If Sanguinuis, who was to my understanding a better fighter than Russ couldn't beat him, I seriously doubt Captain McWolferstien would stand a chance.

* slow clapping * bravo for the semi intelligent impartial answer

Your question itself is hardly impartial judging by your avatar and title under your name.

That being said, I agree completely with Coolyo.

kleiker79 wrote:
Your question itself is hardly impartial judging by your avatar and title under your name.

That being said, I agree completely with Coolyo.

Not so - I agree that Sang is maybe better fighter but Russ is much tougher,so based on that im posting my question

this is not Russ vs Sang tread - I'm just wondering what would happen if different kind of fighter steped up against Horus and I use Russ because he is a dirty fighter and Sang is not

and sang had 3 major fights - first he lost, second he won, and the third he lost..so I don't think he is the best fighter - Fulgrim would make him a new one any day of the week

He would fair the same...maybe Russ would be a little tougher to chew because he was a land fighter and Sang couldn't leap into the sky which was his most advantage...but Horus would toyed with him just like with anybody else...Hm maybe Khan...

Russ may have faired better than Sang, probably lived long enough to die in front of the Emperor instead of the Emp walking in to find Sang dead, but that wasn't the point of what Sang did, he did it to sacrifice himself and show the Emp how far Horus had fallen, not to actually try to beat him.

 CrashCanuck wrote:
Russ may have faired better than Sang, probably lived long enough to die in front of the Emperor instead of the Emp walking in to find Sang dead, but that wasn't the point of what Sang did, he did it to sacrifice himself and show the Emp how far Horus had fallen, not to actually try to beat him.

I have never heard this before.



I do think that Russ would fair much, much better due to his fighting style, but would not be anymore successful then any other primarch in defeating Horus. As the rune priests would say, it would not be Russ' wyrd to defeat Horus, that would have been for the Emperor and the Emperor alone.

The BA 'dex tells he might have known that he would die too.

Nawh, Sanguinius and Russ would both fare the same.

Don't hate me but I believe Konrad Curze would shake his hand, stand by his side, then sink his lightning claws in his back if he was so inclined. (Just my opinion)

Russ wouldn't fair any better here, the point is that only the Emperor could best the Dark Son and even he struggled to do it and depending on what version of the lore, with the aid of Horus himself.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Russ wouldn't fair any better here, the point is that only the Emperor could best the Dark Son and even he struggled to do it and depending on what version of the lore, with the aid of Horus himself.

The Emperor only struggled because of his emotional attachement to Horus. When he truly unleashed his full power he sent the Chaos Gods themselves into flight. Had the gloves come off right away, Horus never would have stood a chance, never would have even wounded the Emperor.

djones520 wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Russ wouldn't fair any better here, the point is that only the Emperor could best the Dark Son and even he struggled to do it and depending on what version of the lore, with the aid of Horus himself.

The Emperor only struggled because of his emotional attachement to Horus. When he truly unleashed his full power he sent the Chaos Gods themselves into flight. Had the gloves come off right away, Horus never would have stood a chance, never would have even wounded the Emperor.

This.

The Emperor and Horus had some serious 'daddy' issues... When the Emperor realised that all was lost with Horus, he completely obliterated his mind, body and soul into oblivion. I still wish GW stuck with the Ollanius Pius angle of a regular dude distracting Horus for a split second, enough for the Emperor to be spurred on and deliver the killing blow. Although, I do sort of enjoy the angle presented in...

Given that he's the only Primarch pre-corruption to have defeated Horus (albeit in a training bout), Russ would've fared better than Sanguinius, either inflicting more damage before succumbing or lasting long enough to actively aid the Emperor.
I very much doubt he could have defeated corrupted Horus.
It's even extremely remotely possible that he'd live through the ordeal himself.
In either case, it's possible the Emperor would not have needed the Golden Throne, and would have been around to guide Humanity to its second Golden Age, completely removing the GrimDark universe of 40K and depriving us all of a great many plastic toy soldiers to play with, so perhaps it's for the best that it was Sanguinius.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Given that he's the only Primarch pre-corruption to have defeated Horus (albeit in a training bout), Russ would've fared better than Sanguinius, either inflicting more damage before succumbing or lasting long enough to actively aid the Emperor.
I very much doubt he could have defeated corrupted Horus.
It's even extremely remotely possible that he'd live through the ordeal himself.
In either case, it's possible the Emperor would not have needed the Golden Throne, and would have been around to guide Humanity to its second Golden Age, completely removing the GrimDark universe of 40K and depriving us all of a great many plastic toy soldiers to play with, so perhaps it's for the best that it was Sanguinius.

that was my point - he would probably endured much more damage and do more damage to Horus but killed in the end probably....
btw I'm with ADB with comparing primarchs, there isn't A<C and I used Russ cause he is a cunning old dog and would fight like a devil,while Sang was to much good,honest and straight up fighter....
>

Russ would do worse than Sang in my opinion, probably charge in all reckless-like and get cut down by the (semi)mortal embodiment of Chaos.

+1 to the Emperor pulling his punches though, if he'd gone aboard Vengeful Spirit with the intention of just killing Horus well, he wouldn't be sitting in that throne right now.

As a SW fan, I think that the only difference would be that the Emperor would find Horus with a badly swollen eye, but that's all and the final outcome the same.

Another thing to consider is that Sanguinius was completely exhausted after fighting Ka'Bandha. So the question remains if Russ would have been able to defeat Ka'Bandha and then have the strength to fair any better against Horus.

The Daemon would return to plague the Blood Angels again during the Battle of Terra, where it yet again challenged the Angel Primarch to battle. Attacking the Primarch when his back was turned, the daemon quickly cast Sanguinius to the ground. But, unlike Signus Prime, this time Sanguinius rose to his feet once again, and calling upon the last of his strength, hefted the Daemon by the neck, raised it above his head, and with a last display of might, broke Ka'Bandha's back over his knee, before hurling the Greater Daemon back into the heretic army and finally retreating back to the safety beyond the walls of the Eternity Gate

Edit for spelling mistakes.

djones520 wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Russ wouldn't fair any better here, the point is that only the Emperor could best the Dark Son and even he struggled to do it and depending on what version of the lore, with the aid of Horus himself.

The Emperor only struggled because of his emotional attachement to Horus. When he truly unleashed his full power he sent the Chaos Gods themselves into flight. Had the gloves come off right away, Horus never would have stood a chance, never would have even wounded the Emperor.

So like I said then. We have the version where Horus holds back the Chaos Gods long enough for the Emperor to deliver the killing blow (Visions) and the version where he doesn't and the Emperor just delivers the whammy (Bill King).

If Horus wasn't able to contain the Gods then the Emperor could have been finished off.

Unfortunately, we don't know the particulars of how Sanguinius' fight went with Horus. If it really was a matter of an instant thrashing, then I don't see how Russ could have fared any better.

Knowing Sang,he probably first tried to bring back Horus to the light, then went to fight - with Russ,hmmm, probably bezerk style (like Horus spiting in his beer madness),he hated words(remembrancer with guns,remeber)...

Orblivion wrote:
Unfortunately, we don't know the particulars of how Sanguinius' fight went with Horus. If it really was a matter of an instant thrashing, then I don't see how Russ could have fared any better.

We know that it wasn't an instant thrashing, and we can guess that is was a battle of words as much as a battle of weapons, lasting a fair amount of time;

Lexicanum wrote:Even in the pit of Horus's tainted and mutated Chaos fuelled Battle Barge did Sanguinius try to revert his brother to the side of the Emperor, using their old friendship as a lever. Horus would not listen to or agree with any of Sanguinius' words and the two argued and tried to sway the other to the side of the heresy they stood upon. Sanguinius was eventually struck down by Horus, the only damage Sanguinius doing was creating a small dent in Horus' armour.

To me, this paints an image of the two circling one another, lightly testing each other's defences while their attention lies more on their words to one another than their actual duel. Then, when they know it's a hopeless cause, they go in for the kill. I suspect that this second phase of the battle was over pretty quickly, with Sanguinius landing his glancing blow at the expense of letting Horus through his defence, at which point Horus simply struck the Angel down.

I'm not that clued up on what Russ' relationship with Horus was... but I'd imagine that the whole first phase of trying to turn each other would be skipped and Russ would simply charge in anger at Horus, possibly landing a wound on him before biting the dust - this is not the Horus that was defeated in a sparring match.

Finally, the Ka'Bandha point is valid. He had already broken Sanguinius' legs earlier in the war, and no doubt drained the Primarch of a portion of his strength at Eternity Gate, just prior to the assault on the Vengeful Spirit. So, those would have to be taken into cosideration, too.

Actually, Russ might have done better, but the end result would have been worse. Because Horus and Russ had no love for each other, so Horus would have just mutilated him, and the Emperor didn't love Russ as much as Sanguinius, so it would have taken more for him to realize Horus was one bad melon-fether and in that time Horus could have full out killed him rather than just opening him up several new donkey-caves

Yes,no and no...Russ respected Horus and vice versa,but you have to understand Emp didn't love any other primarch as much as Horus - I think Emp didn't even like Sanguinius that much (based on a facts from fear to tread, when Sang is terrified to show red thirst the Emp fearing for his and his legion life)....Sang was beloved by all primarchs (maybe not Angron,Curze or Perturabo),and men - but Emp had only one favorite child above others and doesn't matter who laid in the pool of blood under Horus...besides thats a little insulting to say that Emp loved more Sang then Russ(who was his executioner),with none of the clear facts...

 Anfauglir wrote:

I'm not that clued up on what Russ' relationship with Horus was... but I'd imagine that the whole first phase of trying to turn each other would be skipped and Russ would simply charge in anger at Horus, possibly landing a wound on him before biting the dust - this is not the Horus that was defeated in a sparring match.

This is true, but then again, Russ wouldn't be going into this as held back he would a sparring match. I'll still give the match to corrupted Horus, though.
And Russ is *not* the mindless berserk a lot of people seem to think he is - that niche is and always has been, Angron's. Russ was actually highly intelligent, otherwise he couldn't have had the victory tally that he did.
He's *not* the 40K incarnation of Wolverine. Russ' (and by extension the Space Wolves') headstrong attitude might get him into a lot of fights, but once there, he fights with cold fury and controlled ferocity, not as a mindless berserk who cares nothing for his own defence in favour of landing a blow.

We'll have to wait for the new HH series to reach the fight between Horus and Sanguinius, but I think Fear to Tread made it very obvious that the current version of Horus has no intention of converting Sanguinius. There would be little, if any, conversation between the two at this point IMO.

To answer the question though, I don't think Russ would have done any better to be honest. The feeling I get from the current fluff is that Horus dispatched Sanguinius with little to no trouble, I just don't see how any other primarch would have been able to survive the encounter.

Orblivion wrote:
We'll have to wait for the new HH series to reach the fight between Horus and Sanguinius, but I think Fear to Tread made it very obvious that the current version of Horus has no intention of converting Sanguinius. There would be little, if any, conversation between the two at this point IMO.

To answer the question though, I don't think Russ would have done any better to be honest. The feeling I get from the current fluff is that Horus dispatched Sanguinius with little to no trouble, I just don't see how any other primarch would have been able to survive the encounter.

Ironicaly ,when Horus was jesting how he would plucked Sang wings out and later if the trap failed, he will kill him himself - he did....

Bran Dawri wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

I'm not that clued up on what Russ' relationship with Horus was... but I'd imagine that the whole first phase of trying to turn each other would be skipped and Russ would simply charge in anger at Horus, possibly landing a wound on him before biting the dust - this is not the Horus that was defeated in a sparring match.

This is true, but then again, Russ wouldn't be going into this as held back he would a sparring match. I'll still give the match to corrupted Horus, though.
And Russ is *not* the mindless berserk a lot of people seem to think he is - that niche is and always has been, Angron's. Russ was actually highly intelligent, otherwise he couldn't have had the victory tally that he did.
He's *not* the 40K incarnation of Wolverine. Russ' (and by extension the Space Wolves') headstrong attitude might get him into a lot of fights, but once there, he fights with cold fury and controlled ferocity, not as a mindless berserk who cares nothing for his own defence in favour of landing a blow.

that, anyone that read the HH space wolves novels understand that Russ is smart. Even the wolves are smart when they get over Blood Claws rank and start controlling their beast better. Russ was a butcher, but he would never rush in like an idiot into something he could not win if there was a better option avaible. The SW were driven by their old viking like manners, but the Jarls were smart warmasters and so was Russ. After all, a good Butcher is a smart one.

Horus would win though, corrupted Horus was way stronger than "clean" Horus.

 Serder wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

I'm not that clued up on what Russ' relationship with Horus was... but I'd imagine that the whole first phase of trying to turn each other would be skipped and Russ would simply charge in anger at Horus, possibly landing a wound on him before biting the dust - this is not the Horus that was defeated in a sparring match.

This is true, but then again, Russ wouldn't be going into this as held back he would a sparring match. I'll still give the match to corrupted Horus, though.
And Russ is *not* the mindless berserk a lot of people seem to think he is - that niche is and always has been, Angron's. Russ was actually highly intelligent, otherwise he couldn't have had the victory tally that he did.
He's *not* the 40K incarnation of Wolverine. Russ' (and by extension the Space Wolves') headstrong attitude might get him into a lot of fights, but once there, he fights with cold fury and controlled ferocity, not as a mindless berserk who cares nothing for his own defence in favour of landing a blow.

that, anyone that read the HH space wolves novels understand that Russ is smart. Even the wolves are smart when they get over Blood Claws rank and start controlling their beast better. Russ was a butcher, but he would never rush in like an idiot into something he could not win if there was a better option avaible. The SW were driven by their old viking like manners, but the Jarls were smart warmasters and so was Russ. After all, a good Butcher is a smart one.

Horus would win though, corrupted Horus was way stronger than "clean" Horus.

Sorry if I gave off the impression that I think Russ isn't smart and just a brainless beserker - that's not the case. I'm just saying that, if I were to envision Russ is that specific situation at that specific time, his approach to dealing with Horus would be less about trying to talk Horus down and more about wanting to smash his face in for dragging the Imperium into a massive war. I think he'd last about the same amount of time as Sanguinius would, except in place of the chit-chat before killing blows were exchanged, Russ would skip straight to the nitty gritty fighting. I may be wrong if they were friends on a similar level to Horus and Sanguinius.

 DarthMarko wrote:
Yes,no and no...Russ respected Horus and vice versa,but you have to understand Emp didn't love any other primarch as much as Horus - I think Emp didn't even like Sanguinius that much (based on a facts from fear to tread, when Sang is terrified to show red thirst the Emp fearing for his and his legion life)....Sang was beloved by all primarchs (maybe not Angron,Curze or Perturabo),and men - but Emp had only one favorite child above others and doesn't matter who laid in the pool of blood under Horus...besides thats a little insulting to say that Emp loved more Sang then Russ(who was his executioner),with none of the clear facts...

Well obviously they respected each other, but not as much as Horus and Sanguinius. And of course Sanguinius was scared of what the Emperor would do if he found out about their mutation! It didn't work too well for II/XI