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You may too ask yourself the same question and go looking for advice online, but I think we each know what caused us to loose a specific game or why we don't win as much as we would like.

These are the points I think of after my last tournament. I could use some advice in addition, escpecially on the last point regarding when you start playing the mission, specifically when do you start to worry about objectives?
Most of this stuff is improved with experience, its a case of understanding where you are going wrong and making a conscious effort to make a change.

Why I loose games -

Not enough knowledge of my opponents army/units/abilities.

Not remembering to use all of my pyschic powers/abilities/special rules.

Bad deployment against certain lists like Deamons.

Bad time management. Loosing a game because he had two minutes on the clock for turn 6 to take the win.

Not playing the mission? Going for kills and not deploying from the beginning based on winning the game dependant on mission.
When do I need to concentrate on the mission, from turn 3 after trying to kill the opponents resources or should I be concentrating on this from turn 1, surely the first 1-3 turns should be spent on dealing as much hurt as possible to your opponent?


Any thoughts/comments welcome.

I tended to loose becasue I did not keep good enough track of my units and thier abilities (I was horrible at remembering to use psykics).

I also tended to forget secondary objectives.

I have a checklist that I use for every game now where I write down the powers for each psykers and who my warlord is and who thier warlord is for a given game. I also have a turn tracker to make sure I don't forget to move or shoot something. I run a real assualt heavy army and tended to forget my Hive Guard as they would be hidden in some ruin.

I would say under-estimating you opponents army can hurt a lot. I played a doubles turnie and was shot down hard when necrons pointed out that thanks to tesla every hit in a snap fire is actually three which makes it crazy easy for their tanks to take down vendettas. Not knowing the best way to use my own units was the original reason I would lose. But not having a balanced list with an answer to most problems would be the biggest reason. God knows its the round when you have no Melta or Strenght 9 weapons when the other guy brings a Landraider.

Answers will all depend on what you have. Everything in this game is situational. As such, my advice will be based off of me using my Deathwing (very small elite force).

The big things I have noticed that helps a lot is getting priorities right. There are a lot of small things you will pick up, but that will just come from experiance and seeing others use those small tricks.
If you do see yourself getting kicked all the time, pay attention to better players and try to figure out why they did this, or why they moved there. Let them know you are just trying to learn tactics and they will probably be helpful and explain why they do what they do.

My focus in the first two game turns is to take down the biggest threat. Now you also have to take into account your ability to kill the threat. Don't throw all your shots at a LR if you have no chance to kill it. In deciding what to shoot at in the first couple of turns you have to figure two things: what is it's damage output, and how likely am I to actually kill it? If you can't kill it, ignore it/get out of it's LOS.
For me (lots of DW terminators) my first targets tend to be units with plasmacannons/lots of ap2 or 1 shots. Or thinning down hordes.

Turn 3 and 4 is a transition from damage output to objective-focused, this is all situational. If you can start setting up to deny your opponent objectives, then great! (kill all his troops, or just distract them or lock them in combat with some tough guys)

Turn 5 and 6 is all about objectives. keep a mental tally of pts for each side so you know how much you have to kill or sieze to win. Also look at the game from your opponent's perspective. When you can figure out what he has to do to clench the game, you'll be able to predict what he will do. In these turns, keep the focus on the objectives and keeping your troops alive. That could mean you have to use other units as sacrificial lambs, or you have to forgo shooting in order to run towards an objective.

The secondary missions (first blood, slay the warlord, linebreaker) are all useful. some missions are almost always a tie (2 objectives) so the secondary missions are even more important there. Never underestimate the ability to take one of these objectives, bc loosing by 1 pt really sucks. Prime targets for first blood are squads in the open or light transports.


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and yes, knowing your units and your opponent's ability is what is really going to help you determine threats and target priority

I'm surprised you didn't list one of the simplest reasons: bad roll streaks. No matter how well you know your army, your opponent's army, and how to beat it - getting really bad rolls where it matters swings the favour drastically - and can often result in a snowball of bad things.

I'd say the most important thing is simple knowledge and experience. A good/experienced player can play a bad army list and still grab good results, while a bad/inexperienced player can play a good army list and fail miserably.

Learning both how your army, and your army list works against your opponents, and works with itself, is extremely important. Learn which of your units you are more willing to sacrifice, which are better to do something in certain situations (such as possibly moving away / into combat to take / context an objective).

Past that, good list writing is arguably the second biggest thing. Knowing how to tailor your list to at least deal in some way with a variety of threats, or being able to work around threats you can't directly deal with, will directly augment your ability to play against opponents.

You must also take your opponents list into consideration, in regards to mission objectives. Is it an objective focussed mission? Take note of where your opponent's troops are, and harass / kill them.

Secondary objectives are a great way of applying pressure. If you get first blood, immediately your opponent is one down. learn to act defensively in this situation as well - save your Warlord if you want to cement your lead.

Forgetting to use / take advantage of special rules generally fixes itself with experience - try to remember which rules work best where, when to decide to trigger them if they are once-off abilities.

I'd say the initial few stages are indeed based on dealing damage to your opponent, but damage dealt with consideration to (a) how they threaten your forces and (b) how the enemy forces interact with the objectives. The same applies to movement in the first few turns.

Making sure you know and are refreshed on the rules. Last tourney I went to i deep struck 7 terms and a term libby so a base was within 1 of his model. Deepstrike mishap, my HQ and main strike element destroyed. Crushing defeat followed.

Loricatus Aurora wrote:Making sure you know and are refreshed on the rules. Last tourney I went to i deep struck 7 terms and a term libby so a base was within 1 of his model. Deepstrike mishap, my HQ and main strike element destroyed. Crushing defeat followed.

That was just bad luck or bad placement. followed by another bad roll of 1.

But yes, it does help out to know the rules inside and out. Little things like that crop up now and then. Most of the time it won't be big enough to change the outcome of the game, but everynow and then you step on a small little rule that will ruin it.

In my next tourny list I am planning on running 5 drop pods with a few deepstriking assault marine units, I will have 3 drop pods the first turn all with locater beacons so the second turn I will have 3 safe areas to deepstrike into,

I suicide'ed my 10 termies and assault squad with my warlord and sang priest against Imp guard last night, just to destroy his two blob units, which they did, only 2 surived from one and 3 from the other, they then got chewed to pieces (assault marines with two LR's shooting at them both were direct hits, ouch!. BUT I managed to get my fast razorback across to his board, he blew it up and I got my combat squad into his 3 men on the objective and killed them leaving me sitting on the objective last player turn of the game

Had hardly any units left but won 10-5 against a good imp guard player

I havent won many games since starting again, 4 in total 1 draw and about 10 losses but each win was playing for the objectives unlike my first few games going for the kills, troops are key for objective games, secondary objectives are key for relic and emperors will and non combat squadding and protecting your depleted units are key for kill points

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Why I loose games -

Not enough knowledge of my opponents army/units/abilities.

Not remembering to use all of my pyschic powers/abilities/special rules.

Bad deployment against certain lists like Deamons.

Bad time management. Loosing a game because he had two minutes on the clock for turn 6 to take the win.

Not playing the mission? Going for kills and not deploying from the beginning based on winning the game dependant on mission.
When do I need to concentrate on the mission, from turn 3 after trying to kill the opponents resources or should I be concentrating on this from turn 1, surely the first 1-3 turns should be spent on dealing as much hurt as possible to your opponent?


Any thoughts/comments welcome.

- Read codexes. Read Codexes. Read Codexes. Borrow them from friends, read summaries on the internet, etc. You need to know what you are up against.
- Read the rulebook. Read it again and again. Read the FAQs. All of them. Pop into YMDC and read the first couple posts of each thread. Find out what people are confused about. If they are confused about it, chances are you might be playing it wrong or your opponent might.
- Make yourself a reminder card for all the weird stuff you need to do in a turn. I did this when I returned to the game for my Sisters and needed to remember all the different Acts during different phases.
- Ask your opponents for tips at the end of the game on what you could have done better.
- Plan your turn ahead of time. Do not wait until you get there to decide what to do.
- Always remember the mission. Keep the mission sheet in front of you or write it on a post it to remind you. Always focus on it. Everything you should do should be focused on getting you there.
- Get in practice games. Lots of them. Lots and lots. Lose a lot. Learn every time what caused you to lose.
- Don't blame dice or luck or whatever. There's always something you could have done, even if it is minor to put yourself a little better off in the end. It is EXTREMELY rare that luck along loses you a game. When you are starting out, it is nonexistant.
- Paint and base your army. Painted armies fight better.

Just listhammer. It's funny in addition to winning.

 pretre wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Why I loose games -

Not enough knowledge of my opponents army/units/abilities.

Not remembering to use all of my pyschic powers/abilities/special rules.

Bad deployment against certain lists like Deamons.

Bad time management. Loosing a game because he had two minutes on the clock for turn 6 to take the win.

Not playing the mission? Going for kills and not deploying from the beginning based on winning the game dependant on mission.
When do I need to concentrate on the mission, from turn 3 after trying to kill the opponents resources or should I be concentrating on this from turn 1, surely the first 1-3 turns should be spent on dealing as much hurt as possible to your opponent?


Any thoughts/comments welcome.

- Read codexes. Read Codexes. Read Codexes. Borrow them from friends, read summaries on the internet, etc. You need to know what you are up against.
- Read the rulebook. Read it again and again. Read the FAQs. All of them. Pop into YMDC and read the first couple posts of each thread. Find out what people are confused about. If they are confused about it, chances are you might be playing it wrong or your opponent might.
- Make yourself a reminder card for all the weird stuff you need to do in a turn. I did this when I returned to the game for my Sisters and needed to remember all the different Acts during different phases.
- Ask your opponents for tips at the end of the game on what you could have done better.
- Plan your turn ahead of time. Do not wait until you get there to decide what to do.
- Always remember the mission. Keep the mission sheet in front of you or write it on a post it to remind you. Always focus on it. Everything you should do should be focused on getting you there.
- Get in practice games. Lots of them. Lots and lots. Lose a lot. Learn every time what caused you to lose.
- Don't blame dice or luck or whatever. There's always something you could have done, even if it is minor to put yourself a little better off in the end. It is EXTREMELY rare that luck along loses you a game. When you are starting out, it is nonexistant.

- Paint and base your army. Painted armies fight better.

Very good advice, pretty much all of what I have been doing/trying to do/planning on doing. Start of your turn 3 sit back and think what are the scores at, what units do I need to move to get
those extra points, be it objectives or victory points, have a look at what your opponent is doing and what are his units going for, that is the best bit of advice I have had and have seen other players do to me. There are different aims in different missions as I said above and as the poster I am quoting is basically saying.

Have a plan. Deploy accordingly. While there were other mitigating factors one of the main reasons I lose can often be traced back to poor deployment and then poor movement T1. Don't start the game on the back foot, it's hard to then catch up.

This is how I look at a 40k battle. Well, here is the quick cut and dry. I am currently working on a blog series which will encompass these theories and expound upon them, but for now here is a look at the battle in phases:

Deployment - In this phase you need to look at your optimal setup. Including placing terrain and fortifications. This phase alone can and should be practiced with an army list several times before playing a "serious" game. This is a key element to victory. This is where you develop your plan for success. This isn't just a "let's just set it up and get going" phase, it is really an extra turn in the game.

Early Game - Turns 1-3 - The early game is when you'll see a lot of wide spread slashing of enemy forces. Whether it is a deathstar or an incredibly effective gunline, the potential for destruction is there. You need to engage in this, but also be weary and attempt to wear down key enemy units so when we enter the Late Game phase, we have tactical positioning and hopefully an advantage in numbers as well. Here we focus less on winning the primary objectives, and focus on first blood, warlord, and setting ourselves up for success come late game. Expect things to die! That's why you bought them. Don't let early losses compound the issue of improper deployment and table top performance. Keep your head up and think clearly.

Late Game - Turns 4-6 - This is the brass tacks of the battle right here. This is when resources for both sides have begun to get low, and you have already begun to Jockey back and forth to get positioning for the objectives. Here is where I like to say "it's time to bring in Mariano" - because you need to think just that way. How do I finish the game? How can I take out the most important units in the enemy force (usually troop choices at this point), and place myself in perfect positioning for these objectives? This was a key to designing your army list, having a good "closer." Having the early advantage of first blood and perhaps slay the warlord, now becomes very important as you can play knowing you have the lead. Also, don't forget to plan for Linebreaker at this point as well!!

Overtime - Turn 7 - ALWAYS REMEMBER TURN 7 - Turn 7 is a rarity, and often can be a non factor in the game as armies tend to be so dilapidated that turn 7 ends up being a few shots here or there, then resolve the last assaults and add up the VPs, but turn 7 can be a game changing turn. As the game winds down and turn 6 comes to a close, remember turn 7... get your troops into a position so that on turn seven, you can cash in on those loose ends and get those last couple of bonus VPs. Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker, and even grabbing some last minute objectives can all be done in this last turn, to change the outcome. I have personally seen a lot of people come up with a 5 or 6 turn strategy and then when the park lights come on and the 10th inning starts, they don't have anyone to pitch. Remember the possibility of turn 7.... plan for it. You don't want to lose a game because you never thought there'd be a 7th turn.

I know it is not specific advice as much as a philosophy of game play, but I hope this helps.

Know your list. Make it so that you could write it up from memory, points values and all. Know what your heavy hitters are. Know where your weak points are. Always trust experience more then metta.

play necrons

I used to loose because of necron phase out. Now I loose because I get into close combat with overkill units. They turn my crons to bits unless I have wraiths or scarabs. My units will come back sometimes but others they will run away and be shot to death.


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 Exergy wrote:
play necrons

So that means you don't loose

I found the way of the water warrior (yeah yeah overquoted over read I don't care )to be useful

Enjoy!

 Necron123 wrote:
I used to loose because of necron phase out. Now I loose because I get into close combat with overkill units. They turn my crons to bits unless I have wraiths or scarabs. My units will come back sometimes but others they will run away and be shot to death.


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 Exergy wrote:
play necrons

So that means you don't loose

But why did you LOSE?

Mostly I lose because my opponent did a better job of loading their dice than I did. I plan to fix this by getting better loaded dice.

I often lose games because I'm not giving my opponent the chance to lose.

Give your opponent the chance to make bad decisions. Odds are good he's returning the favor.

-Matt

A long time ago i read a white dwarf that talked about a fantasy strategy, oblique line

Basically stack a flank then when you win that flank your remaining forces move to aupport the cenre of the board units, then when the centre is won you mop up the final flank

It works when your opponent does not castle up but rather spreads out across their deployment area. Concentrate on a flank, by the time he has manoeuvred his main force so its in effective range you have played a turn or two with your whole force against a third of his

Wont be the opportunity often but when you get it take it as the chances of victory are high

Table space mangmenet, I do pretty well but when I underestimate the coverage needed on a side to stop a charge or proper placement for a droppod... it can hurt.


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 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
A long time ago i read a white dwarf that talked about a fantasy strategy, oblique line

Basically stack a flank then when you win that flank your remaining forces move to aupport the cenre of the board units, then when the centre is won you mop up the final flank

It works when your opponent does not castle up but rather spreads out across their deployment area. Concentrate on a flank, by the time he has manoeuvred his main force so its in effective range you have played a turn or two with your whole force against a third of his

Wont be the opportunity often but when you get it take it as the chances of victory are high

Side denial is a awesome tactic, I play BA so I always have a few fast moving units and will use this to my advantage.... or I will stack units so that I can make it appear I am spread out but move into a side denial without any real loss.

Winning is like getting to Carnegie Hall: practice, practice, practice.

Yeah, except playing the piano well doesn't involve rolling dice to see if you hit the right notes or not.

Anyways, OP, I think you answered your own questions. The kinds of mistakes you're making are common to new players. As you get more experience playing against stuff you will get a better appreciation for what stuff does. The more times you kick yourself for forgetting to move something before you started shooting, or for forgetting to use a psychic power, or for forgetting to do anything, the less likely you are to forget those things in the future. The more keen you are to look at time, the better with time management you will become and the more often you play against deepstriking armies, the better you will castle.

The mistakes you're making are rather obvious, as are their solutions (which is why you were able to basically solve your own problems in the first post). All we can really give you after that point is morale support.

Also seeing you mentioned tournys time management is a key factor in some games, either against hordes or that player that thinks thinks thinks and then thinks some more before moving shooting etc each unit.

Also seeing as it is variable game length, start getting into position for the objectives from turn 3 imo, if they are on the other side of the board it will take a few turns to get there it could well end on 5th