Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My LGS is running a tournament with Nightfight in a few weeks, and I've found myself in need of something that can "spot" for my Leman Russ squadrons (use their searchlight to deny shrouding/ stealth) so I can deal real damage right away.

Is there a better but equally cheap alternative, or should I bite the bullet and simply wait for Turn 2 before unloading with my tanks?

Well, the tanks themselves have searchlights. You can always shoot with one and then follow up on the other. Also, of course, if you're a mech guard commander, then you've got more searchlights than you know what to do with.

If you're foot, though, I don't know if 36 points and giving away first blood every game is going to be worth it. I suppose you could outflank on non-night-fighting missions, but still.

If you're really in need of a single searchlight or two, I'd go for chimeras or a different HS choice (hydras work well here, as they often don't have anything worth shooting at turn 1 anyways), or even, begrudgingly, a hellhound before I'd consider a sentinel for no other reason than its searchlight.

Sentinels work in squadrons. In which case they tend to be able to kill a single tank themselves by outflanking and hitting side armour. Therefore their spotting duties are only going to work if they can't kill their taget with their 3 heavy weapons. Spotting for tanks would be better coming from chimeras.

@ Ruminator

The idea I have is to run 2 pairs of Sentinels with Searchlights and Autocannons, and scout-move them before the game (assuming I get first turn, otherwise I'm just gonna sit them behind the big heavy armor or right up on the Aegis wall I always bring so they have cover saves.

I've had a lot of night fighting games where models were getting 2+ and 3+ cover against battle cannon and plasma templates which I do not feel the need to accept at 1750.

@ Ailaros

I hate the idea of having to waste one of my Executioners or other Russes to spot for another one, it's grossly inefficient and I think I'd have even more damage output with some autocannons WHILE they're spotting for bigger and badder guns. Are 2 pairs of 2 Scout sentinels too soft, or should they be alright with some sort of cover save?

Hide them as best you can if you go second is all I can say, and if you go first, make sure you kill SOMETHING, or else they will be the first thing to die on the board.

Other than that, I'm not a huge fan of sentinels, but it's either run these or chimeras, and if you're not fielding any of them, you really don't have a lot of options left.

I wish they'd give us an option to take spotlights on foot. I know they have a FW model for it but I'm sure it's quite a lot of points for what it does.

That, or let us use our lasguns as actual proper flashlights

@ Mr Moustaffa

What is it about Sentinels you don't like? I know giving up KP is something most people run screaming from, but I'm playing foot Guard with no combined squads so I'm past the point of caring about that anyway. I prefer to imagine the damage I can do before worrying about what people are going to do back to me, and 4 Sentinels with Autocannons can at least knock off a few light vehicles or chip some wounds off some Monstrous Creatures.

I've never been 100% settled one way or the other about them, since I've seen Sentinels used well and used poorly, but I think this is essentially what they were created to do, right? Be the eyes of the heavy guns as well as light harassment?

Mostly they're just overcosted for what they do. Why get Sentinels when you can get a Vendetta and do the same "outflank into side/rear armor" role even better? Why use them to searchlight when you can buy a Chimera for only a bit more? Even if you don't often use it you still get a HB, AV 12, and the ability to transport something occasionally.

@ Peregrine

My problem with 1 Vendetta v. 3 Sentinels is you can knock off the single vehicle with one lucky shot, and it also isn't going to solve the problem.

And I've considered Chimeras for this purpose too, I'm just exploring all the possibilities while I'm testing models in preparation. I definitely don't respect Chims though.

 VinnyTheRifleman wrote:
My problem with 1 Vendetta v. 3 Sentinels is you can knock off the single vehicle with one lucky shot, and it also isn't going to solve the problem.

So? The Vendetta is AV 12 instead of AV 10, and you can only it it on a 6. The Sentinels are going to die much faster. And sure, it can't help with night fighting, the point is that the Sentinels do absolutely nothing else besides take away night fighting for a unit. In every other situation you're stuck with a bad unit in your list.

And I really don't understand what you mean when you say you don't respect Chimeras.

@ Peregrine

Yes the Vendetta has a higher AV, but it's still just one vehicle. There are only 6 possibilities on a die, one lucky shot is all it takes, and I've just lost 130 points and a KP. Whereas the Sentinels can hide behind the Aegis line or behind buildings, probably won't draw a lot of attention (or if they do, will keep pressure off my troops or heavy vehicles depending on what weapons are fired at them) and can take more hits.

And I say I don't respect the Chimera because it's 55 points of... meh. What does it do, exactly? I still have to disembark to hold objectives, it's still SAV 10 which you've just stated is essentially newspaper, and it can't scout forward across the board to do the job I'm looking for.

I know vendettas are the answer to many problems, but not extra searchlights on T1!

On the 2*2 sentinels then they are pretty cheap and as long as you can get them a cover save they might even still be there T2!

Personaly, if your primary objective for them is to light something up with a searchlight I would go with 3 units of 1 each. First of all, it will let you illuminate 3 different targets if the oppertunity presents itself. Second, if you wipe out the unit the sentinal is lighting up with the sentinal they are not doing their job any longer. Third, if you don't take them what would your other units shoot at on the nightfighting turns?

I know some people are suggesting using chimeras for this task but if you were going to take chimeras just for this then I would recomend the armored sentinals instead. They are the same price and are much smaller ie. easier to get cover for. Of course your spending more points for 2 points of better armor and loosing the scout and move through cover abilities.

Just my 2 cents.

For outflanking madness, I agree that, on that metric alone, the scout sentinels are probably better than the vendetta, but that's in an outflanking role, which has nothing to do with searchlights.

As for sentinels v. chimera. Let's take the multilaser sentinel you were talking about, and compare it to a vehicle that also has a multilaser.

... and a heavy bolter, and can take a heavy stubber, and is AV12, and has +1HP, and can keep an infantry squad safer, while still allowing it to fire at basically full firepower, and can get scoring units onto objectives faster, and can tank shock/ram, and it gets overwatch (well, the guys inside do when the vehicle is attacked), and it even ignores water-based terrain to boot. And it has a searchlight for free.

People are suggesting chimeras because they're way, way better, especially for what you're looking for right now. If you specifically want scout sentinels for something (to add some more punch to a large outflanking contingent, for example) then take scout sentinels. If you want a searchlight, seriously, take chimeras.

Chimeras > Sentinels for this role and pretty much every role except outflanking.

/thread

 Ailaros wrote:
For outflanking madness, I agree that, on that metric alone, the scout sentinels are probably better than the vendetta, but that's in an outflanking role, which has nothing to do with searchlights.

As for sentinels v. chimera. Let's take the multilaser sentinel you were talking about, and compare it to a vehicle that also has a multilaser.

... and a heavy bolter, and can take a heavy stubber, and is AV12, and has +1HP, and can keep an infantry squad safer, while still allowing it to fire at basically full firepower, and can get scoring units onto objectives faster, and can tank shock/ram, and it gets overwatch (well, the guys inside do when the vehicle is attacked), and it even ignores water-based terrain to boot. And it has a searchlight for free.

People are suggesting chimeras because they're way, way better, especially for what you're looking for right now. If you specifically want scout sentinels for something (to add some more punch to a large outflanking contingent, for example) then take scout sentinels. If you want a searchlight, seriously, take chimeras.

You forgot that taking Chimeras doesn't use up a FOC slot while the Fast Attack slots are very valuable for putting Vendettas in.

Sentinel can score in some missions. It's tough to have the vendetta where you need it to score.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Sentinel can score in some missions. It's tough to have the vendetta where you need it to score.

but on that same mission, your opponent gets free VP for blowing the sentinels up, which isn't exactly a challenge.