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Hello again Dakka! With the Horus Heresy now in full swing with all due thanks to Forge World, I assume there are thousands of gamers worldwide acting like 'kids in a candy-shop' as the saying goes. Anticipation for their favourite Legion(s) yet to come, excitement at the release of the four Legions as of yet, or just the miniatures, maybe even the Horus Heresy as a whole. I am with these thousands of gamers, but my heart lies with the Alpha Legion and I truly cannot wait until they are introduced into the Horus Heresy series. Well, with that in mind I set about making rules for my Alpha Captain, now, I apologise in advance if there is no 14th Company, or if there is that 14th Company already has a Captain, I am just having a go. This Alpha Captain is based mostly around a Legion Praetor from the Space Marine Legion army list from The Horus Heresy: Book One Betrayal but with BS 6 rather than WS 6. Everything he possesses are actual upgrades from the Legion Praetor codex entry with exception to his custom bolter which is in practice loosely a sniper rifle-boltgun hybrid with perks. I have gave him the Vigilator Consul upgrade open to Legion Centurions simply to reinforce the aspect of him being of the Alpha Legion, hence the Cameleoline wargear and the Scout, Sniper, Infiltrate (even though he doesn't wear scout armour), and Sabotage!. Move Through Cover isn't there as I removed it to add in Stealth and Relentless which I prefer as a whole and think fit the character of my Captain more-so. I will mention something about the rather long list of special rules. He may not be a Primarch but he is a Captain of a Legion. Being a Captain within a Legion gives you the same stature and responsibility as a Chapter Master which is one reason he has a multitude of rules. Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) and Master of the Legion are commonplace for Legion Praetor's and like I said earlier Infiltrate, Scout, Sabotage!, and Sniper are all gifted to a Centurion with the Vigilator Consul upgrade which I alsom bestowed on my Praetor, even though it isn't available but I have still added the 45 points for it to his points cost. One last point on the list of special rules is he has no custom and personal special rules so I hope the absence of them will give me a bit of leeway for having the amount of rules that he has. If he is OP, again, I do apologise in advance. All I was aiming at doing is making a truly Alpha themed character through the use of wargear and rules. I hope his points cost will reflect this. Well, what do you all think?


Phosos Brox
Captain of Alpha Legion 14th Company, the Whisper In The Night, the Omniscient.
215 Points.

WS.....BS.....S.....T.....W.....I.....A.....Ld.....Sv
..5........6.......4.....4......3.....5....4.....10.....3+

Unit Composition:
Phosos Brox

Unit Type:
Infantry (Independant Character), Unique

Wargear:
Power Armour
Onchalt Pattern Boltgun
Power Weapon (Power Maul)
Cameleoline
Augury Scanner
Digital Lasers
Iron Halo
Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules:
Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion)
Master of the Legion
Infiltrate
Stealth
Scout
Sniper
Sabotage!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Onchalt Pattern Boltgun: Designed by the elusive artificers of the Alpha Legion, the Onchalt Pattern Boltgun is a tactically flexible weapon for employment in theatres of espionage and long-range conflict. An Onchalt Pattern Boltgun is in essence a technically modified Umbra Ferrox Pattern Boltgun. With the addition of a sophisticated range enhancement, telescopic scope fitted with an advanced array of sensory devices, the Onchalt Pattern Boltgun can be utilised to home in on a foe's weak spots, it's sensory devices picking out soft areas in flesh and revealed areas in armour. A highly complex weapon to manufacture, it was originally a weapon prototype designed solely for one of his Captain's by Alpharius but has since been put back in development for hopeful widespread use throughout the Legion.

Weapon.......................................Range............STR.........AP..........Type
Onchalt Pattern Boltgun..............36"..................4.............5............Rapid-Fire, Sniper, Fleshbane.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anybody? I am looking for people's opinion on him. I am hoping to eventually write my Legion army list and I won't engage doing so before I have my Captain fully established so he can be added to army list and so I won't be changing stuff if I came to do the list then get opinions. So, opinions?

What do the Master of the Legion and Sabotage rules do? For that matter, what does the Augury Scanner do?

I'm slightly skeptical about combining Relentless and a Sniper weapon, if only for the tone of the things; I don't know that he's particularly Alpha Legion-themed, last I checked the Alpha Legion was known for trickery, manipulation, and the use of cultists, not sniping. If I were making an Alpha Legion special character I'd give him some sort of passive boost to people in a certain radius and a stipulation that it applies to any Allies regardless of their friendliness to the Alpha Legion to reflect their ability to manipulate others into doing their bidding, or some rule that reflects how they make use of cults to do their dirty work in a lot of places.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
What do the Master of the Legion and Sabotage rules do? For that matter, what does the Augury Scanner do?

I'm slightly skeptical about combining Relentless and a Sniper weapon, if only for the tone of the things; I don't know that he's particularly Alpha Legion-themed, last I checked the Alpha Legion was known for trickery, manipulation, and the use of cultists, not sniping. If I were making an Alpha Legion special character I'd give him some sort of passive boost to people in a certain radius and a stipulation that it applies to any Allies regardless of their friendliness to the Alpha Legion to reflect their ability to manipulate others into doing their bidding, or some rule that reflects how they make use of cults to do their dirty work in a lot of places.

Well I don't have my Horus Heresy book on hand but I'll give it a go from what I recall correctly.

Master of the Legion says any person with this rule can only be fielded in an army from 1000 points and I think you can only have a person with one of these for every 1000 points you have? Or something akin to that. I also think it allows that person to have a command squad and then it allows you to choose a format for your army to follow which restricts it and provides pros and cons, theres a list to choose from but Master of the Legion is mandatory for a Praetor.
Sabotage! iirc is literally Sabotage!. Ummm I think you choose a unit, character, or fortification, roll some dice, and this and that happens. Sabotage! is used by a Vigilator which is why I wanted to use it.
As for an Augury Scanner, it doesn't allow any enemy within 18" of somebody with an Augury Scanner to Infiltrate. So preety much blocks them which I think would be used by the Alphas to force their opponents onto a losing ground, allowing the Alphas to sneak in easier and set themselves up more successfully, that's what I would think would happen fluff-wise.

As for the sniper rifle, there is a Troops choice called a Space Marine Seeker Squad which seem to infiltrate and sneak around all slippery like, which I think suits the Alpha Legion's sneaky methods of warfare, plus, one of their weaponry choices is a sniper rifle which you can upgrade too for free. Relentless was chose to allow him to move about and then resume firing without any penalties, because his weapon is Heavy. I imagine him darting about into the shadows only to prepare himself to take out his foe.

Something in the allies section of the Horus Heresy book (to do with the Legions) mentions special units that are 'soon to come' that are entitled Agents of the Emperor and Agents of the Warmaster so I have an inkling we might get something similar to operatives in this hence why I've left that out for now, but, any ideas on how to add that in?

Might want to be careful about including specific infor on rules guys. I've seen gak hit the fan for less; GW don't particularly smile on it.

Crimson, you've had my input so I don't think I need to repeat it here, just want to add that the name is a bit complicated.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Might want to be careful about including specific infor on rules guys. I've seen gak hit the fan for less; GW don't particularly smile on it.

Crimson, you've had my input so I don't think I need to repeat it here, just want to add that the name is a bit complicated.

Ah liquid, you should know me by now. The more complicated the name, the better!

Going a bit heavy on the USR's I think but otherwise quite fine. Try to only have one personal title and suplant the rest with a campaign title or two, ie: the ........... of Fornhault/Istvaan/whatever planet/system.
Also. Drop Relentless like a hot coal and slap rapid fire on the boltgun and drop ap to 5: you have the rule for stalker silenced shells.

 STC_LogisEngine wrote:
Going a bit heavy on the USR's I think but otherwise quite fine. Try to only have one personal title and suplant the rest with a campaign title or two, ie: the ........... of Fornhault/Istvaan/whatever planet/system.
Also. Drop Relentless like a hot coal and slap rapid fire on the boltgun and drop ap to 5: you have the rule for stalker silenced shells.

Ooooook. I have had a change in name to something a little more simplified in pronunciation, I rather prefer this new iteration. I have dropped 'the Shadowkin' from his list of titles, seems too Raven Guard-y to me I will admit. I have dropped relentless from the bill of rules and swapped out Heavy 2 for Rapid-Fire on the Onchalt Pattern Boltgun.

So is everybody saying that he's alright then? With these few minor alterations?

Yes, apparently.

Well done, you seem to have appeased Dakka. Have an internet cookie.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Yes, apparently.

Well done, you seem to have appeased Dakka. Have an internet cookie.

why, I am truly flattered. Why thank you.

Overpowered as usual
And the name looks like you facerolled on the keyboard

A few things i would suggest:
-Less special rules and wargear to balance him.
-Sniper weapons are always SX AP3, wounding on 4+ IIRC.
-5 Atacks (6 with charge) in one round ? :S
-Rapid fire sniper weapon? too much imo.
-Increase the points slightly.

 Daemonhammer wrote:
Overpowered as usual
And the name looks like you facerolled on the keyboard

A few things i would suggest:
-Less special rules and wargear to balance him.
-Sniper weapons are always SX AP3, wounding on 4+ IIRC.
-5 Atacks (6 with charge) in one round ? :S
-Rapid fire sniper weapon? too much imo.
-Increase the points slightly.

Ummmm I'm sorry, what?
1) How is he overpowered? Nobody else seems to have that illusion?
2) The name, Phosos Brox, facerolled, together? Seriously?
3) The wargear was all bought with exception to his one piece of custom gear so no I won't be lessening that. The special rules are all commonplace with exception to Stealth.
4) Sniper Rifles are STR X and AP 6 with Heavy 1 and Sniper. My weapon is also STR X seeing as his Strength is 4 anyway, and has just a little better AP (5) to show it's basically a boltgun. Rapid-Fire is there to show it's a boltgun also, so.....
5) 5 Attacks? 6 on charge? What? Have you even looked at him, he has 4 Attacks
6) Kinda explained that.
7) Increase the points? Are you kidding? He doesn't even actually come to that if I just bought everything. The 215 is because he's a special character and because of the Onchalt Pattern Boltgun being unique to him and only him. He has the exact same points cost as the Horus Heresy incantation of Ezekyle Abaddon so no I don't think the points should change, nobody else seems to think so.

 crimsonfist832 wrote:

 Daemonhammer wrote:
[...]

Ummmm I'm sorry, what?
1) How is he overpowered? Nobody else seems to have that illusion?
2) The name, Phosos Brox, facerolled, together? Seriously?
3) The wargear was all bought with exception to his one piece of custom gear so no I won't be lessening that. The special rules are all commonplace with exception to Stealth.
4) Sniper Rifles are STR X and AP 6 with Heavy 1 and Sniper. My weapon is also STR X seeing as his Strength is 4 anyway, and has just a little better AP to show it's basically a boltgun. Rapid-Fire is there to show it's a boltgun to so.....
5) 5 Attacks? 6 on charge? What? Have you even looked at him, he has 4 Attacks
6) Kinda explained that.
7) Increase the points? Are you kidding? He doesn't even actually come to that if I just bought everything. The 215 is because he's a special character and because of the Onchalt Pattern Boltgun being unique to him and only him. He has the exact same points cost as the Horus Heresy incantation of Ezekyle Abaddon so no I don't think the points should change, nobody else seems to think so.

1- Okay you win.
2- The Unit Composition named him "Thtajaj lkajj" and i took it to be his name.
3- Still a lot of wargear imo
4- What im getting at is that all sniper weapons fire with the same profile, you should give the gun Rending and pinning instead then.
5- Yes, 4 base attacks +1 for a pistol and a CC weapon and +1 attack on charge.
7- maybe

 Daemonhammer wrote:

 crimsonfist832 wrote:

 Daemonhammer wrote:
[...]

Ummmm I'm sorry, what?
1) How is he overpowered? Nobody else seems to have that illusion?
2) The name, Phosos Brox, facerolled, together? Seriously?
3) The wargear was all bought with exception to his one piece of custom gear so no I won't be lessening that. The special rules are all commonplace with exception to Stealth.
4) Sniper Rifles are STR X and AP 6 with Heavy 1 and Sniper. My weapon is also STR X seeing as his Strength is 4 anyway, and has just a little better AP to show it's basically a boltgun. Rapid-Fire is there to show it's a boltgun to so.....
5) 5 Attacks? 6 on charge? What? Have you even looked at him, he has 4 Attacks
6) Kinda explained that.
7) Increase the points? Are you kidding? He doesn't even actually come to that if I just bought everything. The 215 is because he's a special character and because of the Onchalt Pattern Boltgun being unique to him and only him. He has the exact same points cost as the Horus Heresy incantation of Ezekyle Abaddon so no I don't think the points should change, nobody else seems to think so.

1- Okay you win.
2- The Unit Composition named him "Thtajaj lkajj" and i took it to be his name.
3- Still a lot of wargear imo
4- What im getting at is that all sniper weapons fire with the same profile, you should give the gun Rending and pinning instead then.
5- Yes, 4 base attacks +1 for a pistol and a CC weapon and +1 attack on charge.
7- maybe

Okay, okay.
1) YEY I win! I love winning ha ha ha.... Hopefully no harm done eh Daemon?
2) Ah yes that slight error in wording, that has been changed now.
3) May be a bit yes but it makes him, him. The Power Armour, Onchalt Pattern Boltgun, Power Weapon (Power Maul), and Frag and Krak Grenades are preety much commonplace too.
4) Doesn't Telion have a boltgun with Sniper? Forgive me if I'm wrong but that's one, I think. Mine is preety much the same.
5) Pistol? I assume you mean the boltgun and alright then I retract what I said. I was just... testing you *shifty eyes*
6) No! There is no maybe! Only YES!

 crimsonfist832 wrote:

[...]Hopefully no harm done eh Daemon?

*shifty eyes*

Had a little change of thought to Phosos. Made him slightly simpler in terms of his wargear, with his only unique piece being his custom sniper-boltgun. He really reinforces the Vigilator image now seeing as I removed Sniper from his Special Rules (has it on his gun so I felt only one should be needed, sorry for the cheak ) and gave him Move Through Cover in it's place which is gave to a Vigilator anyway, for free, no upgrades needed for it. His sniper-boltgun, the revered Onchalt Pattern Boltgun, now has AP 6 like an actual sniper rifle making that worse, but, however, I upped the STR to 5 so basically +1 just to emphasise the fact that this boltgun has the strength and speed of a sniper behind it's mechanism. He no longer has Digital Lasers as they really are unwaranted and I see him taking place more-so in range than combat, no other character has them so what the hay! Any changes people have previously mentioned are already included.

Phosos Brox
Captain of Alpha Legion 14th Company, the Whisper In The Night, the Omniscient.
215 Points.

WS.....BS.....S.....T.....W.....I.....A.....Ld.....Sv
..5........6.......4.....4......3.....5....4.....10.....3+

Unit Composition:
Phosos Brox

Unit Type:
Infantry (Independant Character), Unique

Wargear:
Power Armour
Onchalt Pattern Boltgun
Heavy Chainsword.
Cameleoline
Augury Scanner
Iron Halo
Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules:
Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion)
Master of the Legion
Infiltrate
Stealth
Scout
Move Through Cover
Sabotage!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Onchalt Pattern Boltgun: Designed by the elusive artificers of the Alpha Legion, the Onchalt Pattern Boltgun is a tactically flexible weapon for employment in theatres of espionage and long-range conflict. An Onchalt Pattern Boltgun is in essence a technically modified Umbra Ferrox Pattern Boltgun. With the addition of a sophisticated range enhancement, telescopic scope fitted with an advanced array of sensory devices, the Onchalt Pattern Boltgun can be utilised to home in on a foe's weak spots, it's sensory devices picking out soft areas in flesh and revealed areas in armour. A highly complex weapon to manufacture, it was originally a weapon prototype designed solely for one of his Captain's by Alpharius but has since been put back in development for hopeful widespread use throughout the Legion.

Weapon.......................................Range............STR.........AP..........Type
Onchalt Pattern Boltgun..............36"..................5.............5............Rapid-Fire, Sniper, Fleshbane.

I'd drop it to strength 4 AP 5. You now have Tellion's bolter, but better. Why would a bolter lose AP because it's become a sniper (which would, arguably, if anything lower its AP).

Eeeerrrr. Your advice is always considered heavily liquid but I want something, defining, for him. I'll take it to AP 5 again although that makes it better, but I really! really!! really!!! want to keep the STR 5, as I said in the repost to emphasise the combination of the holy bolter and a lethal sniper. I hope this decision won't be dragged down into the dirt and stamped on, hard.

He has a sniper pulse rifle

My argument was that it was losing penetration when it became a sniper, which made no sense. Bolt weapons should always be at least AP5. I'd argue that there is a case for it to be AP 4, but ap5 works too.

Hm....Space Marines, with very, very few exceptions, are ws 4 bs 4, it seems like having a very good shooty character should have the average WS, or vice versa with a melee character just being average at shooting. Having jack of all trades characters that are good at everything tends to drift into the realm of OP and under-priced

That being said, i like the idea behind this character

 iGuy91 wrote:
Hm....Space Marines, with very, very few exceptions, are ws 4 bs 4, it seems like having a very good shooty character should have the average WS, or vice versa with a melee character just being average at shooting. Having jack of all trades characters that are good at everything tends to drift into the realm of OP and under-priced

That being said, i like the idea behind this character

Captains are WS6 and BS5, he simply switched the too around, nothing wrong there.

liquidjoshi wrote:He has a sniper pulse rifle

My argument was that it was losing penetration when it became a sniper, which made no sense. Bolt weapons should always be at least AP5. I'd argue that there is a case for it to be AP 4, but ap5 works too.

I know yes but I really don't want to drop it down to STR 4 as I want it to reflect the combinations of a bolter and a sniper, I would imagine it definitely being a bit stronger.

iGuy91 wrote:Hm....Space Marines, with very, very few exceptions, are ws 4 bs 4, it seems like having a very good shooty character should have the average WS, or vice versa with a melee character just being average at shooting. Having jack of all trades characters that are good at everything tends to drift into the realm of OP and under-priced

That being said, i like the idea behind this character

Thanks for the input! In response to that thing you said about the WS, Lord Magnus really is spot on. A standard Praetor (basically Chapter Master but in the Legion army list) is WS 6 and BS 5 but all I have done is reversed to two to represent his attitude towards ranged more-so than melee. Thanks for saying you like the idea behind him, makes me feel all fuzzy inside

Lord Magnus wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Hm....Space Marines, with very, very few exceptions, are ws 4 bs 4, it seems like having a very good shooty character should have the average WS, or vice versa with a melee character just being average at shooting. Having jack of all trades characters that are good at everything tends to drift into the realm of OP and under-priced

That being said, i like the idea behind this character

Captains are WS6 and BS5, he simply switched the too around, nothing wrong there.

Eeeeeeeeeexactly! I applaud you Lord Magnus, one thanks thee. In additions to that what do you think of him?