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When are people not aggressively freaking out over the tiniest detail at Warseer?

It's the reason I've since ditched that site in favour of this one, far more reasonable cast of characters.

Can't wait for this latest release, I've loved the look of all of the models so far. Just hope a Skink force is viable, fingers crossed!

silent25 wrote:
Well LM players are freaking out over at Warseer. The primal fury rule has a downside. Units must pursue unless they are within 6" of skink character. The Slann doesn't count towards this.

Wait what? I understand that GW wants to give skink characters a bigger role in LM armies, but that's just heavy handed.

Actually, now that I think of it, it does make sense. Saurus are basically predators; they should want to chase their "prey"

The Skinks are the ones who order the Saurus around, thats how it works.


....which makes it odd that skinks have such pathetically bad leadership.

Wow, that's an interesting development! Sucks for cold one cavalry, though

 RiTides wrote:
Wow, that's an interesting development! Sucks for cold one cavalry, though

Especially if they got rid of the Horned One from the magic items and it isnt available as a mount either =/

I was amazed at how few points(about the equivalent of 2 current packs of salamanders) the Bastiladons are(apparently you never get a bonus for flank charge or rear charge against them, and the tail hits for a very strong attack on anything in the rear), and Jungle swarms will be really useful now(make all attacks in assault even other squads poisoned). The slann seems to over all be weaker than they used to be(and has had a point increase), Chakax is better(better abilities, lower cost). Blowpipes on the Stegadon have better range. The Bastiladon that shoot is a bound spell magic missile that has a varying strength and number of shots.

 Micky wrote:
The Skinks are the ones who order the Saurus around, thats how it works.


....which makes it odd that skinks have such pathetically bad leadership.

I think GW justifies it, fluff-wise, by saying the "bad leadership" is just the skinks knowing when to retreat. They are tiny, fragile things after all and are smart enough to know when they'll get wrecked.

LD isn't intelligence or authority, it's bravery and guts, skinks are short on those.

LM fluff for years has been that Saurus are base creatures. They are soldiers and laborers. They rely on the skinks for direction and orders. Saurus only know basic military commands and responses.

Think of them as reptilian Hodors(Hodii?).

I actually want to run more Saurus units, I like them a lot and I really do not like skinks at all, so far I have really enjoyed running a brute force army, I need to add some utility to the list but I am waiting till the new rulebook is out. I will defiantly be adding the bastiladon that I have to my lists(especially because it takes up next to no points).

 Aerethan wrote:
LM fluff for years has been that Saurus are base creatures. They are soldiers and laborers. They rely on the skinks for direction and orders. Saurus only know basic military commands and responses.

Think of them as reptilian Hodors(Hodii?).

Actually they are not laborers that's the kroxigors thing, saurus are pretty much engineered to be soldiers and aren't good for anything else.

 HoverBoy wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
LM fluff for years has been that Saurus are base creatures. They are soldiers and laborers. They rely on the skinks for direction and orders. Saurus only know basic military commands and responses.

Think of them as reptilian Hodors(Hodii?).

Actually they are not laborers that's the kroxigors thing, saurus are pretty much engineered to be soldiers and aren't good for anything else.

So Unsullied then?

 HoverBoy wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
LM fluff for years has been that Saurus are base creatures. They are soldiers and laborers. They rely on the skinks for direction and orders. Saurus only know basic military commands and responses.

Think of them as reptilian Hodors(Hodii?).

Actually they are not laborers that's the kroxigors thing, saurus are pretty much engineered to be soldiers and aren't good for anything else.

That's why you can have a combined unit.

boyd wrote:

 HoverBoy wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
LM fluff for years has been that Saurus are base creatures. They are soldiers and laborers. They rely on the skinks for direction and orders. Saurus only know basic military commands and responses.

Think of them as reptilian Hodors(Hodii?).

Actually they are not laborers that's the kroxigors thing, saurus are pretty much engineered to be soldiers and aren't good for anything else.

That's why you can have a combined unit.

Going to play devils advocate for predatory instincts.

It's easy to picture Saurus as knowing what they are doing when it comes to killing, but also knowing their own weaknesses, and knowing they often fall victem to target fixation. Skinks are paranoid and twitchy, and thus the perfect lookout to watch your back. When a skink yells/blows a whitle/uses it's special rule I picture it as a lookout reminding Saurus to check their 6 and re assess the situation. Saurus know what they are doing, easily fall victem to target fixation because of their aggressive instincts, know their weaknesses, and know skinks make good look outs.

As far as rules balance goes skink characters are cheap.
Question: Does venom from jungle swarms work on Saurus? If so poison + pred instincts sounds like a good combination.

If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

It's a pity they are still metal and worth a fortune for what it gives you.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

It's a pity they are still metal and worth a fortune for what it gives you.

They are extremely easy to scratch-built, you just need the spare bases. Hey, even my 6 years-old nephew can make snakes out of dough

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

It's a pity they are still metal and worth a fortune for what it gives you.

Someone's not been a Lizardman player for any length of time.

I still have 5 or so bases from way back when.

So how good is the new codex? I hear some people already picked thiers up. I gotta wait for GW to mail me mine.

Quick summary time.

PF is as people have said. Extra attack on a 6, can't chain it off itself though. Can't restrain overrun unless a skink is nearby. Comes on Saurus of all varieties and Kroxigor. Considering that Saurus units on a whole got cheaper this is fantastic.

Skinks now have scaly skin. Yes, that's right. SKINKS GET SAVES. Even the Shamans!

Jungle Swarms are hilarious and much cheaper now.

Stegadons and Kroxigor are also cheaper. Kroxigor are once against S5. Rejoice!

Lizard SCs mostly cheaper across the board - Chakax is potentially silly now.

Overall there is a lot of magic item destruction on SCs.

Now some bad news.

Slann went up in points, don't get a free discipline and Disciplines are unique - so one model with X per army. However they did get the old 5th edition spell swap with other Slann rule. Useful for larger games I suppose.

Carnosaurs went up in points by a tiny amount. Salamanders went up and lost their -3 save modifier.
Magic items got thorough gutted but there are some gems - Piranha Blade and Stegadon Helms are the real winners here.

Oh and Oxyotl got a slight buff. Banshees and Cairn Wraiths better watch out, as should any wizards trying sneaky Ethereal tricks!

 Sigvatr wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

It's a pity they are still metal and worth a fortune for what it gives you.

They are extremely easy to scratch-built, you just need the spare bases. Hey, even my 6 years-old nephew can make snakes out of dough

Why scratch build - you get a couple of snake models on the Cold One Saurus riders..

boyd wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

It's a pity they are still metal and worth a fortune for what it gives you.

They are extremely easy to scratch-built, you just need the spare bases. Hey, even my 6 years-old nephew can make snakes out of dough

Why scratch build - you get a couple of snake models on the Cold One Saurus riders..

I think that just adding some jungle ferns to a base would be a good swarm.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

It's a pity they are still metal and worth a fortune for what it gives you.

They are extremely easy to scratch-built, you just need the spare bases. Hey, even my 6 years-old nephew can make snakes out of dough

My greenstuff skills are horrible. Whenever I try to make a snake I end up making it a little too thick. It then looks like something that belongs to a slaaneshi army :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

boyd wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

It's a pity they are still metal and worth a fortune for what it gives you.

They are extremely easy to scratch-built, you just need the spare bases. Hey, even my 6 years-old nephew can make snakes out of dough

Why scratch build - you get a couple of snake models on the Cold One Saurus riders..

Yep, but I don't have enough. With that spare Tehehuin base and the CoC snakes I think I can make 2 at most.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
If jungle swarms have become that much more useful then I suddenly feel that much happier.

Still, will know hard truth in about 30 minutes. Off I go to pick the order up.

It's a pity they are still metal and worth a fortune for what it gives you.

Someone's not been a Lizardman player for any length of time.

I still have 5 or so bases from way back when.

Yeah, I think I started back in 2005 and 6. The metal swarms didn't seem to be worth it. Same reason why I didn't get terradons, even though I really liked the models and concept.

Having picked up the book, a couple of really cool things:

-Slann using high magic, after a successful cast, can choose to "forget" that spell... and then generate a spell from any other lore they can normally access (in the normal way, so you could swap it for the signature spell of that lore, too)

-A discipline letting a Slann take the 8 signature spells from the rulebook instead of any one discipline. A nice touch

-A horn (one use at the start of a movement phase) that makes all mounts and monsters frenzied within 12". Could be very useful with a unit of cold ones... now you've got a mount with 3 attacks! If they're going to overrun due to PF anyway, they might as well be frenzied for a turn . Could make for a very powerful initial strike if building a list around it.

-An enchanted item egg that can be cracked open at the start of a single close combat phase. With lower results on a 3 or worse, but on a 4+... causes a whopping 2D6 S5 hits! For just 5 points more than a dispel scroll. Wow . AND they count towards combat resolution!

So far, I think it's a very interesting and well done book. One bummer is that kroxigor can now be attacked if they are touching the skink in front of them in a mixed unit... I'm really having trouble seeing why you would take a mixed unit now! Also, the poison special rule for skinks is hidden on the army special rules page (for their blowpipes and javelins).

 RiTides wrote:

So far, I think it's a very interesting and well done book. One bummer is that kroxigor can now be attacked if they are touching the skink in front of them in a mixed unit... I'm really having trouble seeing why you would take a mixed unit now! Also, the poison special rule for skinks is hidden on the army special rules page (for their blowpipes and javelins).

Multipurpose unit. Krox can deal with heavy armor troops, skinks w/ poison can deal with low armor troops. Skinks can generate actual combat res while the krox smack any combat characters in the unit.

The PF disadvantage isn't that big. With skink priests being able to take beasts, you will very likely have him near the sarus units due to short range of most beast spells.

Side note, reading on some forums, people really liking the limited edition book and saying it is the first one where the high quality cover makes it feel it is worth it. Faux leather with padding to make it feel like lizard skin. Very nice touch.

Does poison apply to close combat attacks with skinks?

It's still much less useful if the krox can be hit in combat. If something wants combat res, it can just kill skinks (although if you take a ton, they may be steadfast). But if it hits hard, it can take out the krox just as if they were in base contact, ignoring the skinks.

I'm not seeing it...

 RiTides wrote:
Does poison apply to close combat attacks with skinks?

Apparently 'jungle poisons' has been replaced with poison javelins and blowpipes so no, no poison in combat unless there are jungle swarms in the same combat.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Does poison apply to close combat attacks with skinks?

Apparently 'jungle poisons' has been replaced with poison javelins and blowpipes so no, no poison in combat unless there are jungle swarms in the same combat.

Incorrect.

Cohorts can upgrade to Poisoned Attacks - it doesn't specify ranged only - that's already included on Lustrian Javelins.

So yes, your combat skinks can all have poisoned attacks.

Particular note on Stegadon upgrades - one of them causes the impact hits to do D3 wounds each.

This is how you deal with Ogres. D6+1 S5/6 impact hits doing D3 wounds apiece!

"Incorrect" is pushing it a bit, DarkStar. You have to upgrade and pay 2 points a model on your 5 point skinks for them to get close combat poison... they don't come with it base. That takes the minimum amount of points you're putting into skinks, if you want to field 3 kroxigor, up to 168 instead of 120... for a total of a 318 point unit. Without any command, etc.

That's a heck of a lot of points for a unit that's not putting out much more damage than just the 3 kroxigors by themselves! Certainly not over double the damage output... I'm sure this will end up belonging more in WHFB tactics, but I don't see much use for that mixed unit... was hoping they'd rescue it. But I love a lot of other things in the book

Good spot on the D3 wounds upgrade for the impact hits... that could be scary!

Since it takes a week for stuff to get all the way to Bulgaria – is it true an EOTG can be carried by a regular ancient rather than one ridden by a priest.