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 Manchu wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Players are meant to derive as opposed to 'encouraging' but I think that little bit of semantics is kind of negligeable here.

To the contrary, the claim that Sarkeesian is a liar hinges upon the word. The game does not encourage desecrating female characters' bodies as a matter of game play mechanics. And contrary to the strawman argument lodged against her, Sarkeesian does not claim as much. But are players meant to enjoy doing so? She does claim that. And it's a more complicated question ... unless you are pre-committed to Sarkeesian being ignorant and a terrible person. Now she could be biased -- you know, looking at the game from her own perspective -- but that is certainly different from being a FILTHY LIAR, etc.

But she doesn't use her own playthroughs, and that hitman stuff she dragged it out and said there is no repercussion for killing them when in the actual game you get swarmed by guards and die, and the game actively punishes you for killing civilians.

So what if she doesn't use her own play-through vids?

She's not doing a Let's Play series.

 Ravenous D wrote:
said there is no repercussion for killing them

Could you post the source backing that up?

but putting it in context doesn't make it better because the context is a game that has some strange issues with women and sexuality.

Then you should read the rest of that post, because I pointed out that for a game that has strange issues with women, she picked the wrong scene to make her point about how players are meant to desecrate and play with the female form. And saying they're 'meant to desecrate' is still a stretch even then.

 Manchu wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Players are meant to derive as opposed to 'encouraging' but I think that little bit of semantics is kind of negligeable here.

To the contrary, the claim that Sarkeesian is a liar hinges upon the word. The game does not encourage desecrating female characters' bodies as a matter of game play mechanics. But are players meant to enjoy doing so? That's a more complicated question. Unless you are pre-committed to Sarkeesian being ignorant and a terrible person. Now she could be biased -- you know, looking at the game from her own perspective -- but that is certainly different from being a FILTHY LIAR, etc.

I didn't call her a liar. I merely felt compelled to point out that she had claimed some strange things about that particular game. It's one thing to call a game segment for being problematic, but she went beyond that;

Players are then invited to explore and exploit those situations during their play through. The player cannot help but treat these female bodies as things to be acted upon, because they were designed, constructed and placed in the environment for that singular purpose. Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters.

Everything up to that last sentence can make sense in a light, but she goes beyond just problematic to drawing a very weird point about it. Of the bunches of NPC's in that game, 4 of them are strippers, and if you want to you can kill them but players aren't really meant to do it. 'Can do' and 'meant to' are very different things. And desecrating the bodies is rather... colorful, language for what the game actually allows.

I don't even know what this is;

It’s a rush streaming from a carefully concocted mix of sexual arousal, connected to the active controlling and punishing representations of female sexuality.

I mean, this entire thing about how "no one plays the game this way" is kind of bonkers not really the point of the core of what she's talking about (women as decoration), but in that part of that video she went off on a very strange tangent about what amounts to 5 minutes in a several hours long game. Among mole hills, that's the smallest mole hill ever, and her characterization of it all raises the brow in a double take "wait what" kind of way.

 Melissia wrote:
So what if she doesn't use her own play-through vids?

She's not doing a Let's Play series.

The criticism is that shes plagiarising the footage.

Using her own footage would also prove that she took the time to actually play the game shes critiquing in order to get a first hand experience of them, rather than just looking it up online and seeing what other people think about it, reading abbreviated summaries of the games, and/or seeing short out of context snippets of footage.

Considering the mountain of cash she got from her Kickstarter, her donations, and any of her Media appearances for which she accepted payment...theres no excuse for not purchasing or at least renting the games that she criticises.

 LordofHats wrote:
I didn't call her a liar.

Non sequitur. You know the claim has been made over and over ITT.

 Melissia wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Its why here in the real world, women and men get along so well, and real incidents of genuine misogyny [...] are pretty few and far between.

I wouldn't go that far. But then again, I live in a state where people are constantly trying to put a Christian version of Sharia Law in to effect.

Well.. YMMV obviously.. I am from Yorkshire, where the women enjoy true equality and all the men are completely happy with it.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Well, hopefully that cannot be anywhere as bad as Saudia Arabia, or even the IRI…

Well, if they're half as bad as the Wesboro Baptist Church...then hes screwed!

I will take the WBC over Saudi Arabic clerics every time.

 Manchu wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
"encouraging players to get a perverse pleasure out of desecrating the dead bodies of women"

Who are you quoting? All I know is you are not quoting Sarkeesian.

how did you miss that quote. shall we quote her some more to see how she describes all gamers.

Players are then invited to explore and exploit those situations during their play through. The player cannot help but treat these female bodies as things to be acted upon, because they were designed, constructed and placed in the environment for that singular purpose. Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters.

You the player just can't help it, you've been invited to do it, It's why there their right? except when you watch all the 'lets play' video's on the game, everyone ignored them, none of them acted upon the strippers. None of what she said is true. Because she herself desecrated the bodies, does not lead to all players derive a perverse pleasure from it. Maybe she does. There is no evidence to support this opinion of hers.

Where is the case study to show how people reacted when they played the game?

How can you defend her opinions, when you don't even know what she's said?

You the player just can't help it, you've been invited to do it, It's why there their right? except when you watch all the 'lets play' video's on the game, everyone ignored them, none of them acted upon the strippers. None of what she said is true. Because she herself desecrated the bodies, does not lead to all players derive a perverse pleasure from it. Maybe she does. There is no evidence to support this opinion of hers.

Anita desecrated dead woman?

MISOGYNY CONFIRMED! [/sarcasm]

 Melissia wrote:
So what if she doesn't use her own play-through vids?

She's not doing a Let's Play series.

Seriously guy...

Dude listen to yourself.

She isolates parts and uses them out of context, and when she does use her own play throughs she goes out of her way to make it seem as sexist as possible while ignoring the other half of the story. That's intellectually disingenuous. Not to mention her copy paste summaries from Wikipedia.

You're defending a fraud, man, and its only making you look like you're you've lost your firm grip on reality.

 Melissia wrote:
So what if she doesn't use her own play-through vids?

She's not doing a Let's Play series.

Can she, or can someone else do it? I think a lets play might be a good way to talk about and show some of these issues. showing clips in a video is a little like reading a book about a movie. You lose something in the translation.

 mattyrm wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Its why here in the real world, women and men get along so well, and real incidents of genuine misogyny [...] are pretty few and far between.

I wouldn't go that far. But then again, I live in a state where people are constantly trying to put a Christian version of Sharia Law in to effect.

Well.. YMMV obviously.. I am from Yorkshire, where the women enjoy true equality and all the men are completely happy with it.

True equality?

Until you can point out one single picture of a woman in armour of this size, there is no equality in the ways that truly matter.



>:-(

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
So what if she doesn't use her own play-through vids?

She's not doing a Let's Play series.

The criticism is that shes plagiarising the footage.

Using her own footage would also prove that she took the time to actually play the game shes critiquing in order to get a first hand experience of them, rather than just looking it up online and seeing what other people think about it, reading abbreviated summaries of the games, and/or seeing short out of context snippets of footage.

Considering the mountain of cash she got from her Kickstarter, her donations, and any of her Media appearances for which she accepted payment...theres no excuse for not purchasing or at least renting the games that she criticises.

Funny fact. She did buy the games and even tweeted a picture of all of them. It was a rather big collection.

 Ravenous D wrote:
guy...

 Ravenous D wrote:
Dude

 Ravenous D wrote:
man

Nope.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Seriously guy...

Not a guy.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Dude listen to yourself.

Still not a guy.

 Ravenous D wrote:
She isolates parts and uses them out of context

She takes examples from various games, and puts them in a greater context of the overall video game culture, something which you seem unwilling to think about.

 Ravenous D wrote:
and when she does use her own play throughs she goes out of her way to make it seem as sexist as possible while ignoring the other half of the story.

Making gak up and claiming she does it is "intellectually disingenuous". She does not make things seem "as sexist as possible" just because she focuses on issues of sexism.

She isn't doing a game review, she doesn't need to talk about the whole game.

 Ravenous D wrote:
You're defending a fraud, man

I remain female. Also, not defending a fraud.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
So what if she doesn't use her own play-through vids?

She's not doing a Let's Play series.

Can she, or can someone else do it? I think a lets play might be a good way to talk about and show some of these issues. showing clips in a video is a little like reading a book about a movie. You lose something in the translation.

It'd be an interesting experiment to be sure.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Seriously guy...

Dude
[…]
man

Well, did you know that…
Okay, nothing.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Until you can point out one single picture of a woman in armour of this size, there is no equality in the ways that truly matter.

Spoiler:

>:-(

There is always yours truly:

Or, in a different context:

Not sure the second one qualify as armor.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Its why here in the real world, women and men get along so well, and real incidents of genuine misogyny [...] are pretty few and far between.

I wouldn't go that far. But then again, I live in a state where people are constantly trying to put a Christian version of Sharia Law in to effect.

Well.. YMMV obviously.. I am from Yorkshire, where the women enjoy true equality and all the men are completely happy with it.

True equality?

Until you can point out one single picture of a woman in armour of this size, there is no equality in the ways that truly matter.

Spoiler:

>:-(

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=female+space+marine

You're welcome.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:


Not sure the second one qualify as armor.

Not sure the Eva's are a good example (being the mutated horribly experimented on corpses of women, and still containing said women's tortured souls) EDIT: In the original anime anyway. No idea wtf is going on in the reboot movies @_@ gak got weird around Quickening. Even by Evangelion standards.

Be careful what you wish for...

 LordofHats wrote:
Not sure the Eva's are a good example (being the mutated horribly experimented on corpses of women, and still containing said women's tortured souls)

I had no idea. I am not much into anime. I knew “big robot with some female driver”, so I posted it.
I also already showed her this:

That armor is unisex, but there is the opened pin-up version:

Hilde soulcalibur IV

Not bad armor, really, but clearly not thick enough to suite Ashiraya's tastes .

[code]

 LordofHats wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:


Not sure the second one qualify as armor.

Not sure the Eva's are a good example (being the mutated horribly experimented on corpses of women, and still containing said women's tortured souls) EDIT: In the original anime anyway. No idea wtf is going on in the reboot movies @_@ gak got weird around Quickening. Even by Evangelion standards.

That has got to be a trope. The woman who is tortured and then as a result becomes super powerful. Not really a whole gendered trope seeing as it's the origin story for a lot of guys with powers too. Someone make a video on this topic. It might be neat to look into

I said of equal size!

And no boobplate! Equality!

 mattyrm wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Its why here in the real world, women and men get along so well, and real incidents of genuine misogyny [...] are pretty few and far between.

I wouldn't go that far. But then again, I live in a state where people are constantly trying to put a Christian version of Sharia Law in to effect.

Well.. YMMV obviously.. I am from Yorkshire, where the women enjoy true equality and all the men are completely happy with it.

As usual, the US does it better...

nomotog wrote:
That has got to be a trope. The woman who is tortured and then as a result becomes super powerful.

This reminds me of the ending Isla She-Wolf of the SS. Oh damn, no! I must forget it!

nomotog wrote:
That has got to be a trope. The woman who is tortured and then as a result becomes super powerful. Not really a whole gendered trope seeing as it's the origin story for a lot of guys with powers too. Someone make a video on this topic. It might be neat to look into

If it is, I will shamefully admit it is a trope I have actually used!

(Linked cached version since the site is slow atm.)

 Ashiraya wrote:
I said of equal size!

And no boobplate! Equality!

Why does not Shadowsun qualify?

 Melissia wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Seriously guy...

Not a guy.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Dude listen to yourself.

Still not a guy.

 Ravenous D wrote:
You're defending a fraud, man

I remain female.

Why do you dignify that crap with a response?