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2015/06/29 19:37:42
Subject: LoER Terrain Contest: Round 14: Making the extraordinary from the ordinary! Winners announced.
I'd like to hear the comments to and i'd rather you bung them in this thread so anybody can learn from them...
"But me no buts! Our comrades get hurt. Our friends die. Falkenburg is a knight who swore an oath to serve the church and to defend the weak. He'd be the first to tell you to stop puling and start planning. Because what we are doing-at risk to ourselves-is what we have sworn to do. The West relies on us. It is a risk we take with pride. It is an oath we honour. Even when some soft southern burgher mutters about us, we know the reason he sleeps soft and comfortable, why his wife is able to complain about the price of cabbages as her most serious problem and why his children dare to throw dung and yell "Knot" when we pass. It's because we are what we are. For all our faults we stand for law and light.
Von Gherens This Rough Magic Lackey, Flint & Freer
Mekagorkalicious -Monkeytroll
2017 Model Count-71
2015/06/29 21:04:28
Subject: Re:LoER Terrain Contest: Round 14: Making the extraordinary from the ordinary! Winners announced.
Ah well, that's everybody. So critique time.
I'm sure you've all seen (and even been on the receiving end of) my critiques before, but for anyone that hasn't;
I write these as part of my judging process. This means that I will call out every little error and anything that I feel could be improved. This may make it appear harsh in places. There is no offence meant and I post these up so that you can become a better modeller (and do better in these types of contest).
I will also praise things that I like and give advice (where I can) to how it could have been improved.
Depending on what I see and what I know (I'm far from the best modeller), the amount of feedback will vary and is independent from the quality of work. Sometimes I may need to write more just to get my idea across.
On that note, I am dyslexic and may not always word something in the best possible way. Please ask if anything is unclear.
And lastly, these are my opinions. Feel free to disagree with something or to clarify your reasonings for doing something the way you have.
Hopefully these will help you (and everyone else) in future models.
In no particular order:
Tek Thornison;
Spoiler:
Nice work, Tek. I do always like the aesthetic of your terrain. Good job.
Your selected items are a mixed bag of opposites. The light cover is a fantastic piece; very unique shape and works well as the top of a shield generator. The pen covers, on the other hand, are very plain and simple. This is not a problem by itself, they are still an interesting shape. However, I'd have added some surface details to them to make them a little more interesting and to tie them in to the scale of the model; a line of rivets around them, a console at ground level or some cables/pipes up one side, doesn't have to be much. Possibly something to disguise the moulding marks on their ends also; either cover them or add something to give them a purpose. On that note, the base of the light cover might have been better to have had the moulded lettering removed (or highlighted in a different colour to make them intentionally a feature); they are a little large for the scale and I'm sure a shield generator uses more power than 60 Watts.
The overall model is nice. The wall, courtyard, fence and walkway give a purposely-built look to the building. All pretty much seamlessly added. The added details to the tower are nicely done, from the vents and the buttress to the tiles and rivets at the top. The addition of the gems to the walkway, the electrical signs to the fence and the dwarven head logo/icon are nice touches. Nice build of the turret, flamethrower(?) thing (like the little head on it too).
Nice to see some variation on the base, with patches of grass, mud and concrete flagstones.
While your painting style works well on the concrete the smooth surface of the pen holders shows up the dry-brushing quite a bit; a lighter touch or different technique would have reduced this. Something else that I feel is missing is weathering. Maybe your dwarves are very clean people, but while the turret appears to have quite worn paintwork, the rest of the building is very clean in contrast. Maybe think about adding some water damage with streaks of washes, and/or chips in the concrete (the occasional bullet hole, although yes it is a shield generator...), a worn/dirty patch by the doorway where a stray hand always rests as the dwarves come and go, or maybe even some bird droppings, and patches of fresh (orange) rust or verdigris on their respective metals. etc.
You don't have to do all of these suggestions on any one model, but a few here and there can help elevate a model to another level of realism.
This (along with the rest of your terrain) would really make a fantastic gaming table with this as a focal point for attack/defend scenarios. Good job again, Tek.
Llamahead;
Spoiler:
Good job, Llamahead. Showing the rest how to do it, in half the time.
Packaging is often a good choice for this kind of thing due to the shapes involved. You also made good use of those shapes and your additions help sell them as buildings... even if there is a slight "Madonna" resemblance to certain parts of it. It looks like your main building part could have done with some internal structure as the top appears to have been pushed in a little. There are also parts where the doughnut package has pulled away from the base and left gaps. This could have either been covered over again with more gravel or been used to add some plants growing out of (to make it seem on purpose).
On this scale it's difficult to say that it could do with some more small details, because the "usual" small details on larger scales would be so small to not actually be visible, but I feel like it could do with something more, just can't put my finger on it.
Painting-wise I like the choice of colours for the various parts and the verdigris on the brassy bits works well. However, it does look rushed. Especially the "grey" metals of the main building. There's a chip in the paint on the top of the doorway; this is a problem with painting certain plastics. It can be helped by a light sanding of the surface, before priming, to give a rougher surface for the paint to stick to. Also, I can see what appears to be a few hairs here and there, stuck in the paint. It's worth taking the time to check a model over for these things. If they can't be removed seamlessly, you could turn them into features (a loose cable or piece of rope, battle-damage if the shape is right, etc.).
It's good that you have added some scattered rubble/rubbish about the base, but I think the gravel could do with a bit more breaking up. A crop of plants probably doesn't fit with an industrial space, but some painted lines (or even modelled fences) to denote hazard areas and safe walkways would have been good. Also, worn pathways would be a nice way to make the area look used and can be achieved with just a different shade of paint if not a different, finer, basing material. These sorts of things, I feel, would show up more on this scale than on larger scales; like the way crops grow over a medieval settlement, that can be seen from a helicopter but not from the top of a farmhouse. A subtle effect, but would add to the realism.
Good idea to use the lettered piece of sprue and I like the use of the zip-ties in particular.
Nice playable piece of terrain.
Graven;
Spoiler:
Good job, Graven. Really shows that you enjoyed yourself with this one. The added fluff is a nice way to give us an idea of the background of the model, and presentation is half the battle.
The use of the printer cartridges was a good idea, and they work well as scale buildings. Making use of the shape of the underside of those cartridges to overhang the edge of the asteroid was a good idea. However, using a pair of near-identical items, I would have hoped for them to be treated differently; for example, one becomes a building (as you have done) and the other becomes something different (a docked spaceship, or a damaged building, etc) or finding and nominating a second, different item. It's more of a repeat of the same shape use and I wanted 2 shapes ideally. I do appreciate that you have done some different touches to them though and that is in your favour.
The other things you have used are all nice touches. The sim-cards and holders working as windows, and while you have used kit parts, they have added nicely to the overall feel of the model as they should do. The silos, air-lock and escape pods are great additions and show that you have given thought to how it all works. Then using the ice-cream tub as the base for the asteroid's shape and experimenting with papier-mâché and play-doh worked out well.
And then using a whole piece of sprue for the main doors was inspired. I was sceptical at first as I did not see what you intended to do with the nodules on it. With the pieces inside that and the paint job, it works perfectly.
On the painting side, you've done a nice job. Good effort adding the OSL, it works well in many places. The asteroid looks like rock and it's good you went with something other than grey to make the buildings etc. stand out. The little touches of colour help to give the whole a life.
Some places though, the dry-brushing is a little obvious and could have done with a smoother application or technique. Only other thing I can think to add is maybe some signs etc. (numbers on the pods or silos, warning lines...). For the scale you can't do many signs though.
Great model, well presented, and good to see you have given it full thought to playability with the cards and base.
Magos;
Spoiler:
Good job, Magos. Nice grubby, banged-up, well-used creation as I've come to expect from you.
Good choice of item in the printer cartridge package. It has a nice shape that works well as a piece of machinery. The pill bottle is a bit "common" in comparison, but for a storage tank there's no finer choice.
Both items have been transformed perfectly into scale. The added gubbins (and plentiful riviting) give a sense of purpose and scale. I like that you added bits inside the damaged part, although I may have removed one of those "cubes" as a source of the apparent explosion. The control console / electrical box thing (near the damage) could have had dials and buttons painted on instead of being just metal, and the wires coming out the bottom of that could have been given some colour.
Lovely muddy/rocky ground, made in your own unique way. Nice variety in tones and texture.
The fence is a bit simple in comparison to the ground it stands on and the equipment it surrounds. The mesh of the fence doesn't appear to be attached to the fence posts: Not just because I'm taking my usual attention to detail to the extreme and expecting little loops to attach them, but the two don't seem to be interacting much. Maybe it's the mesh that doesn't appear to have any "weight" to it, it looks too stiff (as if it would stand up by itself without the posts). Maybe the top of the mesh looks too neat where it's been cut. It needs to be either cut straight along it's lines, or you need to disguise the uneven cuts by nicking bits out to make a rough edge.
I like the addition of all the signs and posters and I like the goo. However, the goo could do with a little variation in it's tone, more so in the pool under the tank (I like that you have made two leaks though), a bit of "marbling" to make it look less like spilt paint. The bubbles are a good idea, but I may have painted those blobs as white first (maybe a blend to dark grey at the base) to make the bubbles look more translucent once covered in the green.
While I'm in that area, the black base of the machinery (nice selection of material) looks too "clean" even though it has some dust and rocks and a goo spill on it. It could have done with some scratches and worn edges to bring it in line with the rusty metal that's standing on top of it.
The fence could also have had a little more rust on it too.
And lastly, colour: The whole model is a little grey and brown, in spite of all the signs and the vivid green goo. it just seems to lack this "pop" that people like to talk about. I love your mud and weathering, but the model needs something to give it some life. I know you've been lacking in supplies recently, so you may not have had the paints to add the colour that I'm on about, and it might have handicapped you.
Possibly, plant-life. I mention this often when I'm judging, and I know that not everywhere has plants, but you will notice that they do get into many places that they shouldn't, and large areas of mud in a long forgotten corner of an industrial area are going to get their fair share of plants. For models like this, I think that some fresh healthy plants can work as a contrast (or counterpoint, I believe artistic people would say) to the decrepit and decaying machinery. Also it would give you a chance to have dying plants next to the leaking goo to show that it is nasty stuff and not just a pretty green.
Really good job and it would be great to see some associated terrain to add to it (like a pool or river of green goo). Would be a credit to any gaming table.
Nursey;
Spoiler:
Good work, Vik'. Nice missile launchers, really like them. It's good that you took advantage of the extra time to make yourself happier with your model.
The confetti launchers are a fantastic piece and they do scream "missile launcher". The packaging is a good overall shape for a small bunker-like building. I'm in two minds about covering them in plaster. On the one hand, you have created a nice concrete texture. But on the other hand, you have covered (and softened) the shape of one of your "items". A couple of alternatives would have been to not add the plaster, but still use the sand (I'm assuming sand was used to make the texture) on the bare plastic. This would have maintained the sharper shape of the item but still added the texture for concrete. Or, added strips of plastic (or card) onto the bare plastic shape and made it a "ribbed" metal bunker with lots of rivets.
However, with the plaster coating you could have actually chipped pieces off to create the damage that you painted on. This would have given you very realistic damage. You do appear to have avoided getting sand into the damaged areas though, which is good.
Either way, I personally would have left the joining "tunnel" between the domes as plain and painted it up in metal, just to vary the texture (as you have for the tops).
As I said, I like the missile launchers. The bottle tops for their bases are a nice way to add some texture. They could have done with some wires/cables leading from their bases to the rear of the missile tubes (even though it would be silly to have external wires for saboteurs to cut), and the plain disks below the bottle caps are unusually devoid of rivets?
I like the door end with the tile texture. That looks nice with it's riveted surround. Unless it's hidden by the bush, the door is lacking in some way to open it from the outside (again, silly to have an obvious way for intruders to get in, but...). It could be hidden behind one of the tiles, and (brainwave) it would have been nice to have one of the tiles cut out and a key pad added there.
I can see that you have listened to my previous comments, in particular the (oft-mentioned) plant-life. We have grass and bushes. A couple of notes to take these further. Vary the colour tones of them: washes in patches of the grass to give lighter and darker patches, and some dry-brushing of a bone (or bone and green mix) on the bushes to highlight the tips (can also be done on the grass). You can also do patches with brown / light brown / bone to show dead parts/tips. Also, you can use tiny pieces of that bush to show fresh sprouts at other parts of the model, so it's not just growing in two distinct parts.
The painting has it's highs and lows. The metals look pretty good. The hazard stripes on the door are very good. Some of the oil streaks (or water damage) are pretty good; some nice shapes to them. But they could be improved by running more of the same paint over the thicker streaks to darken the middles of them to show that they are the result of many years of build up.
Also, another method (that I used on my concrete wall) was to add the streak in a slightly darker paint mix than you want for about half the length that you want, and then allow clean water (in your case, I was using white spirit over my enamels) to flow over the streak, directing the streak to where you want it to go. I made many passes of this and the result is a softer edge to the streaks and a darker middle (that you build up again like above).
The chips you have in the concrete are a little off too. As I said above, chipping the plaster off would have been a nice way to make these look more realistic (although run the risk of completely cracking the whole cover). You have the right idea for making these kinds of chips though. They look painted on unfortunately. What you need is rougher, more irregular, edges to the chips. The best way to achieve this is with a sponge. Dabbing it on the surface with the chosen "undercoat" colour (black in your case) will give you better irregular shapes than anyone can do freehand. Then use an older paintbrush (e,g, not your best pointiest brush) to dab on the clean metal paint inside the undercoat. On average (not everywhere) you want to leave a little less of the black showing than you have, it's very stark in contrast to your green and therefore stands out. Then you want to dab on some darker metal inside the "clean" metal (this gives the chip some depth), this might be the metal with a little black in, or just some dilute black if you're brave. Then you can add the rust. Try not to be so uniform in colour and tone in your rust and try not to have to much of a contrast between your metal and the rust (build up the colour in successive passes with washes or dry-brushing or gentle dabbing, make it darker towards the middle).
Really nice design and great focal point for a gaming table.
And that's pretty much that.
Thanks for taking part.
Mastodon: @DrH@dice.camp
The army- ~2295 points (built).
* -=]_,=-eague Spruemeister General. * A (sprue) Hut tutorial * Dsteingass - Dr. H..You are a role model for Internet Morality! // inmygravenimage - Dr H is a model to us all Theophony - Sprue for the spruemeister, plastic for his plastic throne! // Shasolenzabi - Toilets, more complex than folks take time to think about!
2015/06/29 22:10:12
Subject: LoER Terrain Contest: Round 14: Making the extraordinary from the ordinary! Winners announced.
thanks for the C&C.. appreciated as always and have to agree with a lot of the points in there! Will certainly take them all onboard moving into round 15!!!
I think you got round 15 up quicker than I did this one, Graven.
Good luck everyone in the next round.
Mastodon: @DrH@dice.camp
The army- ~2295 points (built).
* -=]_,=-eague Spruemeister General. * A (sprue) Hut tutorial * Dsteingass - Dr. H..You are a role model for Internet Morality! // inmygravenimage - Dr H is a model to us all Theophony - Sprue for the spruemeister, plastic for his plastic throne! // Shasolenzabi - Toilets, more complex than folks take time to think about!