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 harlokin wrote:
I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that GW simply scrubbed the Reaper's gun's special rule, standardised the damage, and left it at that.

The gun looks like a supersized Haywire Blaster, and I think it would have been fitting to give it the Haywire rules.

"Just like the Reaper you knew, but a bit blander"

Eh... I feel the reaper is a bit of a wash.

At least the beam profile is more reliable in being D3 +3, rather than the swingy D6. Can't tell you how many times I roll a 1 or 2 for numbers of shots on this thing.

 whembly wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that GW simply scrubbed the Reaper's gun's special rule, standardised the damage, and left it at that.

The gun looks like a supersized Haywire Blaster, and I think it would have been fitting to give it the Haywire rules.

"Just like the Reaper you knew, but a bit blander"

Eh... I feel the reaper is a bit of a wash.

At least the beam profile is more reliable in being D3 +3, rather than the swingy D6. Can't tell you how many times I roll a 1 or 2 for numbers of shots on this thing.

I agree that D3+3 is much better than D6, but GW seems to be applying that sort of change across the whole game to previously D6 weapons; it wasn't a buff just for the Reaper.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah don't go to the center, vs an marines or custodes, but at the same time don't let them pick off units easily as well.

We can't really out shoot a lot of armies right now, we have tools to camp a couple objectives, use them, if you can lock down 2 objectives for sure over 3 turns, then you can shoot holes into another objective.

Also Incubi/Draz can go and take objectives if you wanted to deny and take. Have vehicles and small 5mans in them shoot up to support.

I'm just super unsure about incubi. I was never really impressed with them since late 7th when toughness and wounds started really going up. I may change my mind but a toughness 3 body with 1 wound even with a 3+ armor still goes down pretty fast esp. Without sub faction traits.

I was thinking for a time to use clawed fiends of all things due to -1 ap 2 damage but I just decided to focus on a whole lot of other anti infantry options instead. Clawed fiends are also only about as durable as 2 toughness boosted reavers so you'd have to hit combat out of DS and be sure of it. Even that is a bit fragile for my tastes.

Funny thing is I finally used wracks with liquifiers and dark technomancers in venoms in limited numbers and they hit pretty hard. Sadly about half of them ended up dying after turn 1 or 2 from liquifiers getting hot basically. The boost and auto hits from flamer as well as strong D3 ap and damage 2 means it can actually do a fair number on plenty of vehicles.

Incubi are 1+ save in cover when you use the stratagem, combine with a 6+++ they take a lot to kill unless its high AP. They always do well in 9th once you learn how to use them. Yeah if they are solo up the board they will die. But as DE now in 9th you need support, support them and have other targets to force them to spread their damage, or concentrate way to much to kill 1 thing or 1 side.

I suppose i could try them. I only have 5 right now though of the old style model. Maybe if i got at least 10 more. On the plus side unlike grotesques you could fit 10 in a raider and they can go in venoms. Also points vs points it's about 3 incubi for every grotesques for the same cost and though they get no bonuses at least they can be taken with any detachment. Also incubi should have more attacks per the same cost. My issue is strength 4 might be a big deal vs the str 5 or more of grotesques vs heavily armored toughness 4 units. It still feels a bit fragile to me and i still prefer inv. saves to normal armor saves in most cases.

Drazhar, who is obviously great in his own right, gives the Incubi +1 to wound, which helps offset their S4.

Hello all! Welcome me to your halls I have joined your ranks. I just bought into dark Eldar as I'd like to call them. Im in need of some help I bought:

Two boxes of kabalite
Drazhar
And a venom.

I was wondering if that's a good start and how would you round that up playing 1000 point games. What should I buy next?

I love the models and look I'm super excited.

Depends how competitive you want to be or casual. If you want to be competitive normally lots of warriors may be a bad idea. Gw made all our troops expensive in points. Venoms are best with covens and dark technomancers.

I honestly don't know what would be best for you at this point. We usually avoid wych cults for the most part but you do need things that can grab objectives and hold them. Maybe get some grotesques?

Considering you don't have much that will make your list more open to go any route really. Just make sure you have a haemonculus and archon at least since you'll usually need em due to our split 3 subfaction faction.

ballzonya wrote:
Hello all! Welcome me to your halls I have joined your ranks. I just bought into dark Eldar as I'd like to call them. Im in need of some help I bought:

Two boxes of kabalite
Drazhar
And a venom.

I was wondering if that's a good start and how would you round that up playing 1000 point games. What should I buy next?

I love the models and look I'm super excited.

Based on what you have already, for a 1K army I would recommend starting with:

Transports (Venoms or Raiders, but probably the latter) - our fragile infantry really need them.

Incubi - They would give you some close combat, and they synergise well with your Drazhar.

Sslyth - Well pointed, useful in 9th ed, and a pretty cool model.

Ravager - Something to deal with enemy vehicles. A Reaper, Razorwing, or Voidraven are all also options for this, depends on your tastes and financial resources.

This is obviously not competitive at the moment, but would provide a good, fun, basis for some initial games.

Most of our model range look fantastic, welcome to Commorragh

Awesome thank you for the advice! I choose them cause I like the model range and refuse to buy resin lol. I'm not into competitive scene but I do like to win some times so I hope with a codex things will improve.

I feel like an idiot for suggesting not to use warriors and then turning around and trying to re-vamp my old idea of large warrior blobs with shredders out of DS via our psychic awakening supplement which allows multiple webway portal DS with Kabal and then combining this with our failed leadership check only forces one model to run away. I'm thinking three 20 man warrior blobs and an archon for the re-roll 1's to hit because i found missing shots tends to really bite us.

As of this moment i'm mostly going to try this build because honestly i already have most of what i need in order to use it. Also i'm not sure if warriors by themselves cost a lot of points or if it costs a lot combined with our expensive transports. I realize 9 pts for warriors is bad but our shredders kind of excite me and i don't feel like tearing apart 12 shredder warrior models to turn them into scourge models yet again if trueborn ever comes back.

I'll check out incubi+drazhar later though because you guys really interested me.

Warriors are bad sadly. They only were taken lots of in 8th b.c they were cheap and venoms were cheap too. Kabals can not hold objectives or do enough damage for their points. They need to be 7pts at least.

I agree and I wouldn't do this normally but it's what I have built. Also seeing as how our transports are so expensive (90 or more points). They aren't really good either for fire output of what they are and you have to take a unit in them at the start to run them. Even if I took 10 naked warriors in a raider that'd be about 190 pts without upgrades or for the same in a venom about 150 pts and more likely you take wracks with covens for dark technomancers which are even more expensive.

I'm not saying our transports aren't nice with speed but going both for warriors is bad. I know warriors are bad but sadly as i said itll be a while before i can get enough incubi to field well and i dont want to break shredders off warriors and mishap ruining models to put them on scourge only to find out trueborn are coming back or scourge are or aren't valid.

Anyway I will try the incubi approach because oddly enough they are more cost effective in points than most of our troop choices and they have a lot more attacks than grotesques for the same points and better armor piercing. I just cant afford incubi in money right now. I just hope the game doesn't change significantly by the time I have enough incubi.

Had a couple low point games recently using wych cults, won a 1000 pt game vs necrons lost a 500 pt game vs grey knights.

One unit that worked surprisingly well in the 1000 pt game was a unit of 10 scourges with 4 dark lances holding a backline primary objective. Granted I was playing against a full melee enemy but the ability to pick off his Lychguard across the map and reposition easily when threatened was damn useful. probably not as good vs shooting lists but then again they can get a 2+ save with a 1cp strategem that doesn't really have any other good targets in most of my lists.

Hypex was very effective on succubi, so much mobility to gank enemy characters, contest or secure objectives, and lead an enemy unit on a merry chase. It almost let me take back the 500 pt game and got me almost a third of my secondary vps by herself as well as contested to reduce enemy primaries effectively. (Should have been closer to half of secondary vp but I stupidly took thin their ranks instead of slay the warlord) by herself despite only living for 3 turns in the 1000 pt game.

MVPs were definitely venoms though, respectable damage through weight of dice vs infantry, useable durability against low strength attacks and the mobility to guarantee positioning secondaries.

@operkoi:

I have a lot of experience with scourge and most types of squad loadout with them. Dark lance scourge sound good until you have a dedicated shooting unit with anti infantry firepower hitting it that also avoids cover. I think in one case it was that chaos chain gun murder gun thing in one squad with boosts. Last time I tried what you had with like 6 or 7 scourge per squad with dark lances and I had probably 6 of them left. This was in 8th however I think.

The problem with scourge since 8th is they're an extremely fragile unit meant for quick potent suicide runs of mostly anti tank. In 7th heat lances would pop a tank with just one squad. Now that monsters and vehicles are tougher most scourge weapons aren't good enough esp. With negative to hit modifiers, invulnerable saves, fnp and the like. I once sent out 3 squads of scourge minimum size with blasters. I did 4 wounds on a chaos predator due to inv. And similar and then he just killed all 3 squads like nothing next turn. My advice with blasters on any platform I've tried them on is don't bother and don't waste your time.

The reason why blasters usually suck is short range and anything that uses them tends to be fragile unless you do warriors in a raider and both are inefficient in points right now. The problem with short range is if the enemy is gun-line and castles up then you're getting a lot of return fire next turn and if they're assault then they'll be assaulted without fail. Normally this would make blaster scourge ideal since they'll die anyway but usually blasters disappoint due to being less effective since 8th. There is a possibility you can use blaster warriors even in raiders and it'd cost a lot but you'd likely have to create screens for your blaster units which oddly would work best with reavers which are one of the few blaster equipping units tho sadly blasters are still ineffective and reavers cost too much anyway in any significant number. In 9th blasters on reavers are just a terrible idea due to points and the fact they still get charged and then can't shoot back when they leave combat anymore.

Dark lance is great but infantry are just too fragile and they don't count the weapon as assault like vehicles do. Also vehicles tend to be more durable and take the shots better. I think the closest I tried lately to what you're going for is dark lance raiders with a dark lance warrior inside and some blasters just in case. Sadly warriors and transports cost too much now. As far as haywire goes it's sometimes fun and sometimes depressing. It has alright range and the damage is less random than dark lances I think but it just doesn't do enough.

Scourge with shardcarbines used to be fun in 7th once in a while against medium infantry like hive guard or ogryns or medium monsters like carnifex but everything has far too many wounds now and poison remains as depressing as ever. Scourge with shredders should be good though for anti infantry. People may prefer mandrakes now but incubi and grotesques still get praise for infantry killing. I'm shocked incubi are finally relevant again honestly.

Generally our anti tank goes best on vehicles because infantry die too fast. However with the game being about objectives and ds units now and infantry often getting congested around objective points I find anti infantry but mostly anti-meq or anti medium infantry (something that kills sisters or necrons fairly well) to be better.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I have a lot of experience with scourge and most types of squad loadout with them. Dark lance scourge sound good until you have a dedicated shooting unit with anti infantry firepower hitting it that also avoids cover. I think in one case it was that chaos chain gun murder gun thing in one squad with boosts. Last time I tried what you had with like 6 or 7 scourge per squad with dark lances and I had probably 6 of them left. This was in 8th however I think.

The problem with scourge since 8th is they're an extremely fragile unit meant for quick potent suicide runs of mostly anti tank. In 7th heat lances would pop a tank with just one squad. Now that monsters and vehicles are tougher most scourge weapons aren't good enough esp. With negative to hit modifiers, invulnerable saves, fnp and the like. I once sent out 3 squads of scourge minimum size with blasters. I did 4 wounds on a chaos predator due to inv. And similar and then he just killed all 3 squads like nothing next turn. My advice with blasters on any platform I've tried them on is don't bother and don't waste your time. Dark lance is great but infantry are just too fragile and they don't count the weapon as assault like vehicles do. Also vehicles tend to be more durable and take the shots better. I think the closest I tried lately to what you're going for is dark lance raiders with a dark lance warrior inside and some blasters just in case. Sadly warriors and transports cost too much now. As far as haywire goes it's sometimes fun and sometimes depressing. It has alright range and the damage is less random than dark lances I think but it just doesn't do enough.

Scourge with shardcarbines used to be fun in 7th once in a while against medium infantry like hive guard or ogryns or medium monsters like carnifex but everything has far too many wounds now and poison remains as depressing as ever. Scourge with shredders should be good though for anti infantry. People may prefer mandrakes now but incubi and grotesques still get praise for infantry killing. I'm shocked incubi are finally relevant again honestly.

Generally our anti tank goes best on vehicles because infantry die too fast. However with the game being about objectives and ds units now and infantry often getting congested around objective points I find anti infantry but mostly anti-meq or anti medium infantry (something that kills sisters or necrons fairly well) to be better.

Agree. In bigger games my anti tank will probably be haywire Talos and/or min size DS scourges with heat lances. Figured at 1000 pts the big lance unit would perform adequately (which it certainly did) and I was limited to Cults so beggars can't be choosers for anti vehicle weapons.

https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

WE ALL SHALL REJOICE!

Drukhari next codex confirmed

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/21/warhammer-preview-online-decadence-decay/

Only teaser was improved Incubi: They all hit on 2s now, all weapons improved by +1S and +1D.
They also said all Troops have been adjusted by stats and the vast majority of weapons changed to (in most cases) improve lethality. We'll see...

Looks like I finished painting my army at just the right time.

I'm Especially glad that I painted up 10 Incubi. Those guys are Marine killers if there ever was one.

Genuinely excited to see what kind of changes will happen when the book drops.

I just started to paint some 1kSons like two weeks ago to "change a little" it looks like those terminators are going to the shelve again

Getting on those Dark Elves again.

Yeah, I've been trying to reconfigure my armies and work on my next project (Black Templars) but there's been such an overhaul in points values, rules and stat lines that I'm kind of at an impasse as far as army building. I can't write a proper list until the codex comes out.

Everything is in such a flux right now, its really annoying.

I just striped and restarted painting my SW. All through 8th and 9th I have been on Nids and GSC. And my 4th army are DE and now a new codex comes out! Good. But I am having a sensory overload!

Congrats to all though!

This is rather good news

I am very excited seeing how incubi have been boosted. Personally i find our new codex's cover art to be one of the worst we've ever had. That said don't judge a book by its cover ;P.

I just hope the book is actually good. It seems they're doing away with the old 3 sub-faction style and incubi very much are having a return to form being a very scary unit that chops marines down with ease. I'm almost wondering if i should get new models with the combination of a lockdown in my current state followed by the codex update. May as well save money till after the codex drops.

I may be wrong but the incubi seem to lack the 6's to wound do +2 damage rule. Either they don't show it or that special rule was taken away....like all our others. Eh at least they're better in every single other aspect and likely they do more damage (except against vehicles and monsters probably).

So far in the SM, SW and Necron codex they have made things that was way to good much worse. And bad things got a whole lot better. (This might be true for deathwatch as well but I am not well informed.) This cab be very, very good for us.

Hopefully things will be really good. I am a bit consirned because they are moving away from mono builds, and DE have always been about transport. We will see. :-) But so far so good (except the cover art.)

 Niiai wrote:
So far in the SM, SW and Necron codex they have made things that was way to good much worse. And bad things got a whole lot better. (This might be true for deathwatch as well but I am not well informed.) This cab be very, very good for us.

Hopefully things will be really good. I am a bit consirned because they are moving away from mono builds, and DE have always been about transport. We will see. :-) But so far so good (except the cover art.)

And that concerns me in the case of ravagers because ravagers have been getting neutered a lot and they're still decent. They can nerf Talos a bit though. I never really used em and they're always seemingly good.

I'm cautiously optimistic for this. No more monkeying with subfactions might make list building more practical. I liked the three subfaction thing in principle but in execution I felt it wasn't handled with the integration it needed with the core ruleset. They say we will be getting more lethal which allows me to hope we might actually get the glass cannon feeling back and may be able to fight properly as opposed to relying on solely coven and objective camping as our means to victory. That's a good coven way to play but not Kabal or Cult at all. The statlines of incubi look promising. Also did the Klaivex always have 2 wounds or is that new?

I don't know if I'm in the minority here but I personally love the artwork on the cover here. It looks to be the same artist that did a lot of the interior art for our current codex and perhaps the Daughters of Khaine book too? I actually really like the style and find it more suitable for our army over the style they use for Marine codexes. The only concern I have is I can't tell if the character at the front is supposed to be a Wych or a Kabalite? Too much armor for Wych but too many knives for Kabalite. Either way if it's the same artist as the DoK book inside I'll be thrilled.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I may be wrong but the incubi seem to lack the 6's to wound do +2 damage rule. Either they don't show it or that special rule was taken away....like all our others. Eh at least they're better in every single other aspect and likely they do more damage (except against vehicles and monsters probably).

Lethal Precision is an ability, not a part of the statline. They only showed the stats, and I'm sure they're not losing the abilities.

About the art, I love it, I've always been a fan of Wyches

I wonder if all the codex covers are in the same art style?

Ah you may be right Niiai, I believe I was thinking of the cover of the 8th edition 2.0 marine dex. These do have a lot of similarities but I'm wondering if it still may be two different artists. They may have had a "style brief" for the covers so ours and the marine dex have 2 different artists emulating the same style, something just feels a bit different with the marine dex over the Drukhari one.

Anyways this isn't tactics so I won't derail the thread with it. Suffice to say I do like the art.

Oh god now I need leaks

But we still have BA and DG before us. I've been all morning painting 5 converted Kabalites I made like half a year ago.