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so, warpedpig (and others), how about this:



or this:



i squeezed in a unit of shining spears to optimize for wrath of khaine in both lists.

the first runs 2 prisms to delete key stuff and the second has 3 d-cannons and a fourth on a wraith seer for similar firepower and acces to jinx.

Also, I dont really like the 5 wraith blades. I know they are meant to take a center objektive but I just dont see them succeeding. The dude who invented the list went undefeated so I guess it can work but 5 wraith blades are just weak Imo. id love to just swop them for 1x5 and 1x10 Dire avengers. Fits better with Wrath too. they help with actions, they kill, they fit in the car, they are fast, 10 of them have obsec. they're just good. If I make that modification the list could look like this:




any opinions?

I am a believer in fire prisms. Just absolutely do not get them killed turn 1. Keep them very safe behind cover.

ok, so I ended up running this:




i won narrowly vs sisters 73-70. This was my first nephilim game and I simply loved it. Our book was clearly broken when it came ou and now we are reigned in properly. We can still beat any army, id say, but we have to fight for it. I love how CP is now a much more dynamic resource and the lower starting count makes those insane t1s and super alphastrikes a lot less reliable.

i had designet the list to score with wrath but I struggled to do it. in the end I racked up 9 points on that. My opponent struggled to secure his sacred objective (or whatever thats called) and we battled back and forth there a lot. The 6 dcannons were a first for me. I never ran them before. They are definitely a force to be reckoned with and managed to destroy a castigator tank, 3 paragon suits and some infantry. Sisters in cover and out of LoS save on 4s, though, so indirect fire can be a disappointing experience too. Which is a good thing for the game, I think.

All in all; 9th never felt better.

Sounds like a fun game. D cannons are brutal. I used to run 9 and my friend who plays Imperial Guard would be terrified when they would be within 24” of a tank and just absolutely wreck everything. His artillery was the only way to hit back. But it’s a big waste of shots to target 1 support cannons with a big manticore missile. So it is something you can’t avoid. They have to be dealt with otherwise they’re gonna maul the enemy bad

Hey, I played a little bit of Eldar when they got their previous book (8th) but I didn't get a chance to play much. I was wondering how they're doing with their new book/rules. How varied is the army? Are there a lot of ways to play them? Is the book well balanced? I kind of have a preference for the units I'm familiar with from DoW (guardians, reapers, banshees, warp spiders, scorpions, etc). Are warp spiders any good? And, are they hard to play?

Thanks

Iggy88 wrote:
Hey, I played a little bit of Eldar when they got their previous book (8th) but I didn't get a chance to play much. I was wondering how they're doing with their new book/rules. How varied is the army? Are there a lot of ways to play them? Is the book well balanced? I kind of have a preference for the units I'm familiar with from DoW (guardians, reapers, banshees, warp spiders, scorpions, etc). Are warp spiders any good? And, are they hard to play?

Thanks

I think the book has a fair internal balance.
Admittedly I have played a lot more during 8th.

Most aspects are viable to some degree for the most part which is a massive improvement over previous book! They were pretty useless apart from reapers which were pretty broken for a time. Most units are pretty solid/usable in 9th ed book. I think the only units which don't really do well are the aircraft and wraith knights - Aircraft due to rules limitations regarding objectives and not being able to turn twice anymore and wraith knights coz you don't get army traits.

I think I'm missing something, can someone explain how a Banshee Exarch gets 10 attacks with Mirror swords? I see base 4 attacks, then make 2 hits for each attack getting 8.

is the ten just exaggeration ?

Otherwise i feel there is a +1A to characteristic that I'm missing somewhere?

Isn't it that along with its gimmick an Exarch power adds +1A to the fisticuffs Aspects

popisdead wrote:
I think I'm missing something, can someone explain how a Banshee Exarch gets 10 attacks with Mirror swords? I see base 4 attacks, then make 2 hits for each attack getting 8.

is the ten just exaggeration ?

Otherwise i feel there is a +1A to characteristic that I'm missing somewhere?

When you give to an exarch a power, It get a promotion and gain +1 to wounds and attacks, usually the Banshee's Exarch is equiped with mirror blades and piercing strike and that's why has 10 attacks.

Phoenix Lord wrote:

popisdead wrote:
I think I'm missing something, can someone explain how a Banshee Exarch gets 10 attacks with Mirror swords? I see base 4 attacks, then make 2 hits for each attack getting 8.

is the ten just exaggeration ?

Otherwise i feel there is a +1A to characteristic that I'm missing somewhere?

When you give to an exarch a power, It get a promotion and gain +1 to wounds and attacks, usually the Banshee's Exarch is equiped with mirror blades and piercing strike and that's why has 10 attacks.

ah.... right,... i miss those,.. thanks kindly; much appreciated.

I’m unsure where to even begin with making an eldar army.

Iggy88 wrote:
I’m unsure where to even begin with making an eldar army.

Start with what units you like, what drew you to the army in the first place. Pick a few and figure out what roles they fill on the table. Look at what else you need, and add units to the list until you have a decent TAC list.

There are a lot of option out there on how to put together an army. You want the one that’s right for you.

Iggy88 wrote:
I’m unsure where to even begin with making an eldar army.

What I would suggest is go with the following:

1 Farseer
1 Box of Rangers
1 Box of Dire Avengers

All other units will come and go, but for 7+ editions those three units have always been in lists (either because they had to be, or were good)

It also helps that all three units look fantastic and are a lot of fun to paint.

I think I want to make a list around the aspect warriors using Biel Tan. It looks like I can fit one of each of the units into an army without exceeding the points limit or battalion organization. I'm not sure if I'll be able to make all of the units maximum sized.

Autarch Skyrunner w/ 3-5 shining spears and the biel tan warlord trait giving them reroll to hit.
Farseer Skyrunner & Warlock Skyrunner to do psychic actions w/ Guide, Doom, Fortune, & I don't know, Protect/Jinx?
10 Guardian Defenders, 5 Rangers, and I'm not sure what to take for the 3rd troop
5 Dire Avengers w/ either Defensive Stance or Shredding Fire, 2 guns on exarch
5 Howling Banshees w/ Mirrorswords & Piercing Strikes
5 Shadow Spectres
5 Striking Scorpions w/ Biting Blade & Crushing Blows
5 Swooping Hawks w/ Hawk's Talons & Suppressing Fire
5 Warp Spiders w/ 2 Death Spinners & Powerblades, & Web of Deceit
5 Dark Reapers w/ Reaper Launcher & Reaper's Reach

This would be 1500 points, plus whatever the 3rd troop costs (65-90).

Add a Wave Serpent and Falcon and I'm at 1885 points. I can put the Banshees, Scorpions, and Dragons into the transports. Spiders, Hawks, Spectres, and Falcon can deep strike. Rangers, Defenders, Avengers, Shining Spears, Wave Serpent, and Skyrunners set up on the board.

1955 if I add the 2 shining spears to make it a unit of 5.

well, I have been toying with similar builds. Your list can definitely score with wrath of khaine and thats great.

I feel you'll need some hefty shooting with eldar always, though, and your list doesn't have that. Maybe im wrong, but thats my experience. 6-9 d-cannons, 2 prisms. stuff like that that can just pick up one thing each round no matter what it is.

but maybe you can make up for it with all your rather deadly units.

Iggy88 wrote:
I’m unsure where to even begin with making an eldar army.

Id start with the classic: 1 HQ + 1-2 troops units. Id recommend a Farseer because psychic is an extra phase where you are active so more flexibility.
Cant go wrong with that as your base to build on.

Once you have painted and assembled that pick whatever you like the most from Lore or model perspective.
Good luck.

I definitely do want a gardener, 5 rangers, and 10 guardians. I’m not sure if I want the farseer on foot though, I think I’d want it on a bike.

I could maybe fit 3 d-cannon platforms or a fire prism to my list with all the aspect warriors, but I doubt I could fit 2 fire prisms or even 6 d-cannons.

I’ll probably look through the aspect warrior upgrades again and add up everything I’ve added to see how much it would cost to spend the minimum points on all of them. I might only buy some of them, whatever is cheap or only enhances the exarch since they’re small squads.

I was wondering if anyone had advice about how to design aspect warrior units and if any of the phoenix lords are worth considering. Looking over the book, there are 9 aspect warrior units and 3 of them are melee (spears, scorpions, & banshees).

In addition to the farseer, I was thinking maybe 1 or 2 phoenix lords would be worth taking over the autarch (I can't seem to figure out what to do for a 2nd HQ). I was thinking specifically 1 or 2 of the melee oriented HQs in order to add more killing power for melee aspect warriors for the secondary since the majority of the units are shooting. I was thinking Asurmen, Jain Zar, or Karandras, maybe Fuegan.

I don't know how much I want to invest in the aspect warriors themselves, since taking 2 expensive heroes would mean I couldn't afford to take any supporting units like vehicles, weapon platforms, wraiths, etc.

As for the aspect warriors themselves, are any units not worth upgrading the exarch's weapon? They seem like they're all better and worth their points. I'm unsure what to do about the striking scorpion exarch. Giving him the claw will lower the attacks, reducing the chance to get sustained assault and the mandiblasters.

Would it be too heavily focused on the aspect warriors if I took 2 phoenix lords alongside all the aspect warrior units and gave 2-4 of the exarchs shrine relics?

Iggy88 wrote:I was wondering if anyone had advice about how to design aspect warrior units and if any of the phoenix lords are worth considering. Looking over the book, there are 9 aspect warrior units and 3 of them are melee (spears, scorpions, & banshees).

In addition to the farseer, I was thinking maybe 1 or 2 phoenix lords would be worth taking over the autarch (I can't seem to figure out what to do for a 2nd HQ). I was thinking specifically 1 or 2 of the melee oriented HQs in order to add more killing power for melee aspect warriors for the secondary since the majority of the units are shooting. I was thinking Asurmen, Jain Zar, or Karandras, maybe Fuegan.

I don't know how much I want to invest in the aspect warriors themselves, since taking 2 expensive heroes would mean I couldn't afford to take any supporting units like vehicles, weapon platforms, wraiths, etc.

As for the aspect warriors themselves, are any units not worth upgrading the exarch's weapon? They seem like they're all better and worth their points. I'm unsure what to do about the striking scorpion exarch. Giving him the claw will lower the attacks, reducing the chance to get sustained assault and the mandiblasters.

Would it be too heavily focused on the aspect warriors if I took 2 phoenix lords alongside all the aspect warrior units and gave 2-4 of the exarchs shrine relics?

I think it depends on what you are making your army for? Is it competitive? Average pick up game?

If you are not playing super competitive then it is not a question that should factor in your decisions and just take whatever you like thematical, lore or aesthetically.
If you like the idea of aspect heavy list lead by PL's - do it.

I think for the most part Aspect relics are not worth the CP. The exarch /unit upgrades seem worth it in some cases. The main objective IMO is to have fun with your army.

Iggy88 wrote:I definitely do want a gardener, 5 rangers, and 10 guardians. I’m not sure if I want the Farseer on foot though, I think I’d want it on a bike.

I could maybe fit 3 d-cannon platforms or a fire prism to my list with all the aspect warriors, but I doubt I could fit 2 fire prisms or even 6 d-cannons.

I’ll probably look through the aspect warrior upgrades again and add up everything I’ve added to see how much it would cost to spend the minimum points on all of them. I might only buy some of them, whatever is cheap or only enhances the exarch since they’re small squads.

I think for aspects wave serpents would offer a lot more utility. Twin SC wave serpent is a nice little boat.

If you like platforms, personally I really dig triple Vibro cannons. They are the epitomy of glass canon.

Why don't you post a list and give a brief on what your playing environment is like and what you like in terms of playstyle and maybe some people can offer suggestions for optimising what you have.

Eldar look like they'd be fun to play and collect due to their army and unit rules. Being able to advance and shoot or effectively advance after shooting seem like a fun ability. And I like how abundant they have enhanced attacks when rolling 6s to hit and/or wound. The aspect warriors seem like they'd be fun to paint since they would look normal all being distinct colors. Biel Tan seems like a good pick since the attribute enhances what I already like--battle focus and rerolling hits/wounds to get more of the "critical" effects.

I have a handful of friends who play and I also live by a game store with a big community that hosts lots of leagues and tournaments. I'll likely mostly be playing with friends so the competitiveness isn't vital, but I do want to make sure I'm making the right decisions with my plan for building the army. I don't need a list that's competitive, but I would like one that could actually compete in a serious setting--or at least know if I'm going to be buying models that are either going to perform poorly or not even be used. I read on earlier pages in this thread that all of the aspect warriors work, etc.

Eldar are like the one army that makes the least sense to me, I think because I almost never see them. I think I've played against eldar once in the 15 or so years I've been casually playing on and off. It's hard to wrap my head around how they play and how to design a list with just the rules since I don't have much experience seeing what they would look like outside of GW's representation.

The units themselves don't seem overly complicated, though I'm unsure about the worth of certain upgrades and how to best support the lot / what units need support and what ones don't. All 9 aspect warrior units run at 965 points plus upgrades, so they'll be at least half a full 2000 point army. I plan to play against my friend as I collect/paint them, and I can get to about 1500 points with just the HQ, Troops, and aspect warriors so that'll be fine until they start needing something to help them function.

I bought 5 Dire Avengers and after I paint them I'm going to get 5 Rangers and a Farseer. My biggest concern is what I'm going to want my HQs doing in 2000 points and making sure I get the right model for that, which feels like I need to know what the whole army is going to look like--I can't really come up with a reason why I'd want a Farseer on foot.

After that, I want to get Howling Banshees and Warp Spiders mostly because I think they're cool. Rangers, Dire Avengers, and Warp Spiders seem fine, but I worry about the Howling Banshees. I'm used to (chaos) space marine stats so I'm just unsure how the Howling Banshees aren't going to be blown off the board. The Webway Portal seems okay, but the enemy can just avoid it. The bigger question is just what each of the different units needs to succeed. Dark Reapers seem like they'll do fine on their own in the back, I'm not sure if scorpions need a transport but howling banshees and fire dragons seem like they'd be easy targets.

I was hoping the secondary objectives could help give me some direction. I definitely like the khaine objective, but I'm worried only 3 melee units (13 guys) isn't going to cut it. I think the psychic secondary is the most do-able since the psykers are cheap and quick, plus the stratagem. I'm not sure about the other two. Maybe the webway secondary works well with the fortification, and then having dragons and banshees in the webway could work well.

I don't think heavy weapon platforms are particularly cool or fun, but I could do a unit (not 3, though). It seems like the dark reapers are already doing the immobile heavy guns thing, but the d-cannon is nice since the highest strength for aspect warriors are the fire dragons at s9. It's 195 points though for 3 models that just sit at the edge of the board and shoot, and I think a wave serpent or webway portal would be more useful for the aspect warriors. The wave serpent seems like it would be the best since it can continue protecting any of the units by blocking LoS and whenever anything re-embark. But it is also quite expensive.

I honestly don't really care too much what else is in the army. I just want the additional stuff to support the aspect warriors who'll be trying to score a unit kill in both the shooting and fight phase while protecting the psyker that goes around scrying objectives.

I know I want:
Farseer, 1 of each aspect warrior unit, and a unit of rangers and guardian defenders. I don't know what I want for a 3rd troop or for additional HQs, so I'm fine until I run out of slots in a patrol.
I think what I would most like to do is add a wave serpent, falcon, and fire prism to that list, if I can fit it. Otherwise, taking a webway portal and maybe using the spare points to add more models to certain aspect warrior units.
Alternatively, I'm worried that the melee units aren't potent enough and so I thought adding some melee phoenix lords (who have aspect warrior keywords) would be an effective way to increase the chance the army will score a kill in both the shooting and fight phase with an aspect warrior. For less points, I could take an autarch on foot and add it to the banshees or scorpions, or take two.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry for the long message. I was able to fit it all into a list.

Autarch Skyrunner - Natural Leader, Laser Lance
Farseer Skyrunner - Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Doom, Fortune, Will of Asuryan
Warlock Skyrunner - Protect/Jinx
3 Shining Spears - Star Lance
10 Guardian Defenders
2x5 Rangers
5 Striking Scorpions - Claw
5 Dire Avengers - Twin catapult
5 Howling Banshees - Mirrorswords, Piercing Strikes
5 Fire Dragons - Firepike
5 Shadow Spectres
5 Swooping Hawks - Hawk's Talon
5 Warp Spiders - 2 Death Spinners & Powerblades
5 Dark Reapers
Falcon
Fire Prism
Wave Serpent

Dark Reapers on the backfield objective. Rangers and scorpions advanced positions. Howling banshees, fire dragons, and maybe scorpions or avengers embarked in the transports. Swooping hawks, shadow spectres, warp spiders, and falcon maybe deep striking. I think between the rangers, guardians, avengers, will of asuryan, and the stratagem I'll be able to do whatever actions need to get done. The warlock is there for the psychic action, but protect/jinx seems good too. I don't know how they'll get melee kills and then survive the next turn, but I'm hoping it'll be fun to play an MSU list like this with everything so unique.

has anyone tried to go all out on shooting with craftworlds?

i tinkered with a double patrol list with 2 prisms, 2x3 d-cannon batteries.

Then 10 avengers in a serpent to go places and shoot. maybe even hold an objective late.

then 2 scatter vipers for road blocks and stuff.

baharoth and 6 hawks take actions, harass and try to win objectives in the late game.

2x5 rangers, 5 more avengers and 10 guardians screen and try to keep the heavy hitters safe. also, the ranges give the batteries rerolls.

we're Ulthwe so eldrad off course and a doom seer on bike with the seer stones for max strands plus a jinx warlock on bike.

Should be able to score psychic, RND, banners, engage and other things.

IDK if the shooting is good enough, but the prisms should pick up one thing a turn. the d cannons too. so yeah.

Any comments?

With the new nerfed Fire and Fade it's gunna be hard to keep those prisms alive. they'll get lit up quick... at least in my area. they do hit hard, but they are destroyed in return

yeah, but the list would make sure they didn't get hit t1 and together with the d-cannons they would hopefully remove some of the anti armor threats and try to avoid some shots with their immense range. with a few sixes on strands (for the invuln through ulthwe) you might get them through to your second shooting phase and then, after they have picked up say, two redemptors, 6 custode bikes or what ever, I think they're worth it.

but yeah, absolutely, they melt super easy. thats why im thinking on this list with not one but 2 insane shooting threats. while they shoot one of them, the other peppers key targets.

Does the biel tan army rule prevent warp spiders from taking a mortal wound when rolling double 1s for battle focus? Or do they take 1 mortal wounds but still move 6” instead of 2?

Iggy88 wrote:
Does the biel tan army rule prevent warp spiders from taking a mortal wound when rolling double 1s for battle focus? Or do they take 1 mortal wounds but still move 6” instead of 2?

Good question, maybe I'm wrong but I think it's the second bullet, Biel-Tan rules say's treat the 1-2 as a trhee, It doesen't say's change the result of the die, therefore following this reasoning, if you roll a double one you count both dice as trhee but you also take the mortal wound.

Need some help list-building for an upcoming league game

the league is locked factions but not locked lists - I am playing Craftworld Biel Tan.

So far I have won my first 3 games, and my fourth is up against Thousand Sons. Unsurprisingly the only other player to have won his first 3 games so I know it'll be a toughie.

My only thinking is to take as many shuriken cannons / star cannons as possible to block out All is Dust (+1 to save rolls when taking a 1 damage attack).
He'll still get armour of contempt but there's nothing I can do about that.

Then I thought I would take a few psyker units for denies to limit the mortal wound output.

Beyond that, what advice can you friendly folk give me?

 Crafter91 wrote:


Then I thought I would take a few psyker units for denies to limit the mortal wound output.

I am an extremely inexperienced pilot, but I would actually be tempted to swing the other direction. If a core part of your gameplay relies on eldar psyker buffs (which are excellent!) then leaning into psykers might be the play. If you don't normally rely on psykers it might be better to not take any and lean into Abhor the Witch.

Correspondingly if you take psykers but they aren't a major part of your army TS will be getting free VP from Wrath of Magnus.

 Warlawk wrote:

 Crafter91 wrote:


Then I thought I would take a few psyker units for denies to limit the mortal wound output.

I am an extremely inexperienced pilot, but I would actually be tempted to swing the other direction. If a core part of your gameplay relies on eldar psyker buffs (which are excellent!) then leaning into psykers might be the play. If you don't normally rely on psykers it might be better to not take any and lean into Abhor the Witch.

Correspondingly if you take psykers but they aren't a major part of your army TS will be getting free VP from Wrath of Magnus.

I've considered that approach but from what i have been told about this chap's previous games, his psychic phases consist of a huge amount of mortal wounds.

Since I don't have any sort of feel no pain, having my own psykers will be my only line of defence.

You're right though, it's definitely a tough call though for sure, but I think I lean in that direction.

I just had my first game with my buddy. 255 points. I took a Farseer Skyrunner, 5 Rangers, and 5 Dire Avengers. And my opponent took a unit of Blood Claws with a terminator wolf guard leader and a wolf lord on a thunder wolf or whatever it is.

I forgot to use strands of fate lol, both of us are new and forget half the stuff we meant to do. He ended up conceding at the end of turn 2 after his wolf lord failed a 5" charge against my farseer who overextended trying to cast Smite and not realizing that the wolf lord could advance 10+d6" and still charge. I think it felt like a loss for both of us.

Anyway. Is there a consensus on whether or not a unit can use battle focus without shooting a target? The wording seems to indicate I do not need to actually shoot, I just need to be finished shooting in order to battle focus, but I'm unsure if that's the case. I did shoot with my farseer's twin shuriken catapult, but if it had been on foot and only had a pistol, would I be able to move within 18" of the enemy, cast smite, and then in the shooting phase with no targets to shoot, can I still battle focus?

Also, my main opponent plays melee heavy (almost exclusively) with Space Wolves and Drukhari (wyches). I currently only have the Farseer Skyrunner, Rangers, and Dire Avengers. What would you guys recommend for my next purchases? I was thinking Striking Scorpions and Warp Spiders.

Iggy88 wrote:
I just had my first game with my buddy. 255 points. I took a Farseer Skyrunner, 5 Rangers, and 5 Dire Avengers. And my opponent took a unit of Blood Claws with a terminator wolf guard leader and a wolf lord on a thunder wolf or whatever it is.

I forgot to use strands of fate lol, both of us are new and forget half the stuff we meant to do. He ended up conceding at the end of turn 2 after his wolf lord failed a 5" charge against my farseer who overextended trying to cast Smite and not realizing that the wolf lord could advance 10+d6" and still charge. I think it felt like a loss for both of us.

Anyway. Is there a consensus on whether or not a unit can use battle focus without shooting a target? The wording seems to indicate I do not need to actually shoot, I just need to be finished shooting in order to battle focus, but I'm unsure if that's the case. I did shoot with my farseer's twin shuriken catapult, but if it had been on foot and only had a pistol, would I be able to move within 18" of the enemy, cast smite, and then in the shooting phase with no targets to shoot, can I still battle focus?

Also, my main opponent plays melee heavy (almost exclusively) with Space Wolves and Drukhari (wyches). I currently only have the Farseer Skyrunner, Rangers, and Dire Avengers. What would you guys recommend for my next purchases? I was thinking Striking Scorpions and Warp Spiders.

Sounds like an interesting game with lots learned for next time. Don't worry, friendly games are exactly for this sort of stuff. Best way to iron out kinks and pick up new rules.

Regarding battlefocus, yes you can still do it if your unit has not fired. The rule just states "after a unit has finished making its attacks".

There's a similarly worded rule about heroic interventions which says HIs take place after your opponent finishes making their charges. If they declare no charges, they still 'finish' making charges and you can still perform a Heroic Intervention.

HOWEVER, the battlefocus rules are worse than those for a standard advance roll (for moving over terrain purposes) so if you don't plan to shoot, just do an advance roll.