Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**torblind**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, even though there are 4 scarabs on the base, they only have 3 wounds. Its weird.

Well, from all literature I've ever read, it's alot easier to kill 3 scarabs in combat than any infantry representing something with 3 wounds in-game

A civilian could easily kill 3 scarabs, but wouldn't stand a chance doing any kind of damage to a destroyer or wraith, if allowed to swing freely.

The real amount of scarabs that 3 game wounds represent would probably be more like i don't know.. 20?

**epaemil**

How would a civilian be able to kill three scarabs? They're made by the most technologically advanced race in the universe, they're not that small (about a cat's size) and they're made of metal. Don't forget that they're literally designed to kill and eat stuff. A civilian would not stand a chance against three scarabs.

**Lothmar**

Epa - Your answer is T shirt saves. *chuckle*

Yeah sure bolters/las guns might not have ap or much of it but scarabs have 6+ saves and toughness comparable to a human at 3. So they're pretty fragile, there's just a lot of them.

But yeah that 3 wounds situation~ I guess it depends on how far away they spot the scarabs at. IE if they spot them at max range and fire that round and keep backing up while firing every turn each model might kill a base if lucky before the scarabs charge and devour them...

**epaemil**

Oh I think I thought of an unarmed person when I read civilian.. with a gun it would be a bit more fair to be honest.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Or a pipe. I'm sure those little machines would go flying if hit by a nice sturdy pipe.

**epaemil**

So what do people think of my little Necron force

Spoiler:

Gonna use it against my brother who plays Dark Angels. Don't know what he's bringing though, but I think he has some Ravenwings atleast.

**Doctoralex**

I have another question:

Why is a Cryptek + Ghost Ark often considered sub-optimal?

With squads of 20 Warriors, the enemy will be hard-pressed to wipe them out completely. Especially if you hide two or three models out of LoS.

While it will cost 2 CP for auto-pass on the morale, you should be able to get 75% of the unit back. That is huge!

At first I thought that it would not be possible because there would not be enough room for the newly reanimated models, but remember that they only need to be in coherency to non-reanimated models. this gives you a 2" bubble to place new models, plenty of room.

And since the Ghost Arks Reanimation Protocols happen at the end of the movement phase, you can move the previously-reanimated Warriors, leaving you room around the non-reanimated ones for the Ghost Ark's RP.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Because its expensive. Yeah, its hard to remove. But its not dealing enough damage and you won't be able to afford damage dealers.
That's one of the core problems with necrons; they can be tough, but that doesn't matter if you don't have enough damage output to make the durability worthwhile.

**epaemil**

Why are necrons so gak all of a sudden, it sucks

**arhurt**

If you get assaulted by a smart opponent you really have to pay attention to casualty removal, as they can use the pile-in and consolidation movement to box you in. The newly arrived models must be in coherency AND 1'' away from enemy models.

**Requizen**

epaemil wrote:
Why are necrons so gak all of a sudden, it sucks

My guess? They really overestimated RP. I could see the worry being that if Necrons were too unkillable out of the gate, they would be too overbearing and end up being unfun for people to play against. So instead they erred on the side of caution and made it so there was no dominant Xenos like we had in 7th.

Just a guess, tho.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Requizen wrote:
epaemil wrote:
Why are necrons so gak all of a sudden, it sucks

My guess? They really overestimated RP. I could see the worry being that if Necrons were too unkillable out of the gate, they would be too overbearing and end up being unfun for people to play against. So instead they erred on the side of caution and made it so there was no dominant Xenos like we had in 7th.

Just a guess, tho.

Yeah, and every non-necron panicked about how unstoppable necrons will be, so that problem factored in.
I swear, everytime necrons get a fun gimmick, everyone whines and it gets taken away.

**epaemil**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Requizen wrote:
epaemil wrote:
Why are necrons so gak all of a sudden, it sucks

My guess? They really overestimated RP. I could see the worry being that if Necrons were too unkillable out of the gate, they would be too overbearing and end up being unfun for people to play against. So instead they erred on the side of caution and made it so there was no dominant Xenos like we had in 7th.

Just a guess, tho.

Yeah, and every non-necron panicked about how unstoppable necrons will be, so that problem factored in.
I swear, everytime necrons get a fun gimmick, everyone whines and it gets taken away.

Why can't the most advanced race get to be a tiny bit better than everyone... also they better make gauss have a unique thing about it in the codex. One of the things that bothers me most. It strips away the atoms of the foe, but what it that translated into in game? -1 AP. Laughable.

**CthuluIsSpy**

To be fair, most basic weapons are 0AP. So -1 is a sort of neat little trait. Not as impressive as the other gauss rule, but it does have a bit more utility.
What I miss are the more esoteric rules. Like living metal being able to ignore melta and lance, entropic strike, Mind Shackle scarabs, the cryptek weapons and res orbs being actually useful.
Being made into a 35 point single use item that just grants rerolls is bs. Necrons had some unique stuff that added another element to their army comp, but all of their toys get taken away or homogenized.

Meanwhile, pretty much every other faction gets to keep their gimmicks and equipment.

Be careful with the "they are more advanced, so they should be better than everyone else" line of thinking. That's how you get 4th-7th ed Eldar

**epaemil**

Alright I see your point but I just hope they get a lot of unique abilities and gimmicks and all that jazz in the codex. Let them be viable please GW

**zacharia**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Be careful with the "they are more advanced, so they should be better than everyone else" line of thinking. That's how you get 4th-7th ed Eldar

Theres nothing wrong with something being better than something else, as long as its costed appropriately, The whole game is built around units of different strength costing different points but balanced by those two factors. Otherwise there would only be a single unit which everyone took and ran them at each other.

We were always better but more expensive and as time has gone on necrons have become a joke getting cheaper and worse until finally they have become relatively more expensive and worse!

**EnTyme**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Be careful with the "they are more advanced, so they should be better than everyone else" line of thinking. That's how you get 4th-7th ed Eldar

It also inevitably leads to difficulty finding pick-up games. How many times have you heard "Oh. Didn't realize you played Necrons. I read online that they're super broken. No, thanks." Seriously heard this from someone running the Imperial Agents death star at the end of 7th.

**Necronplayer**

Question:

What are your thoughts on Tesla Immortals without the MWBD buff?

A unit of 10 immortals costs 170 points and will output 20 hits on average. With MWBD, the output becomes 30 hits, but the cheapest MWBD is the Overlord w/ hyperphase at 104 points.

Instead of running an overlord, if you run an equivalent of 104(102) points in immortals, then you'll have an additional 12 hits on average from 6 models.

So overall, one full 10 model unit and 6 model unit for the same cost of a 10 model unit and overlord will give you 32 hits vs 30 hits.

Overlord is great, but I don't think it's worth the cost to buff a single unit with MWBD. Resurrection orb is great too, but the cost may be of better use in more models. It also doesn't seem to scale well when you want to add multiple immortal units, as these buffs only apply to a single unit.

My thoughts are to use multiple immortal units, and bring a cryptek for the 5++ and 4+ RP. Cheap, effective, and scales better when we want to bring more troops.

IMO, more models(more wounds) would also help counter the issue of the overcosted RP built into some of our models. Less wounds on the board leaves us more vulnerable to having a unit blown off in one turn, voiding our RP cost. Not to mention, more models to hold objectives

Thoughts?

EDIT: Sorry, accidentally hit the submit button too early on mobile.

EDIT2: Cheaper OL

**Grimgold**

Necronplayer wrote:

Question:

What are your thoughts on Tesla Immortals without the MWBD buff?

A unit of 10 immortals costs 170 points and will output 20 hits on average. With MWBD, the o

Have you read the dakka

Without MWBD, tesla is better at greater than 12", and gauss blaster is better within 12". So if you are planning on making them turrets camped out on an objective Tesla is probably better.

**Doctoralex**

Alrighty folks, time for another battle report!

2000 points of Orks vs Necrons.

Spoiler:

**torblind**

Necronplayer wrote:
Question:

What are your thoughts on Tesla Immortals without the MWBD buff?

A unit of 10 immortals costs 170 points and will output 20 hits on average. With MWBD, the output becomes 30 hits, but the cheapest MWBD is the Overlord w/ hyperphase at 104 points.

Instead of running an overlord, if you run an equivalent of 104(102) points in immortals, then you'll have an additional 12 hits on average from 6 models.

So overall, one full 10 model unit and 6 model unit for the same cost of a 10 model unit and overlord will give you 32 hits vs 30 hits.

Overlord is great, but I don't think it's worth the cost to buff a single unit with MWBD. Resurrection orb is great too, but the cost may be of better use in more models. It also doesn't seem to scale well when you want to add multiple immortal units, as these buffs only apply to a single unit.

My thoughts are to use multiple immortal units, and bring a cryptek for the 5++ and 4+ RP. Cheap, effective, and scales better when we want to bring more troops.

IMO, more models(more wounds) would also help counter the issue of the overcosted RP built into some of our models. Less wounds on the board leaves us more vulnerable to having a unit blown off in one turn, voiding our RP cost. Not to mention, more models to hold objectives

Thoughts?

EDIT: Sorry, accidentally hit the submit button too early on mobile.

EDIT2: Cheaper OL

Unit size is still 10, so not really mitigating the RP weakness?

OL could also MWBD something else. If you have 20 warriors in RP range, they will output more damage then the tesla immortals. Even more with MWBD.

Of you have the relic, you have the option to take anything across the board with MWBD, could be 10 LG, could be 20 warriors, could be 10 gauss immortals. Offering choice to a changing game board

**torblind**

Doctoralex wrote:
Alrighty folks, time for another battle report!

2000 points of Orks vs Necrons.

Spoiler:

Battalion:

HQ:
Illuminor Szeras

Cryptek

Troops:
15x Warriors
15x Warriors
10x Immortals /w Tesla

Elite:
10x Lychguard /w Warscythes

Fast attack:
5x Scarabs

6x Tomb Blades /w shieldvanes and Shadowlooms

Heavy Support:
Doomsday Ark

Patrol

2x Overlord /w Warscytches and Ressurection Orbs

troops:
15x Warriors

Orks:
-3 trukks, filled with 2x 12 boyz and one with12 burnas.
-2 Battlewagons, one with 15 Tankbustas and one with 5 -Meganobz, Warboss and Weirdboy
-Mekboy /w KFF
-Gorkanaut

Necron, turn 1:

Well as you can probably guess, my anti-tank was severely lacking. Warriors and Immortals moved up, staying behind the Scarab screen. Still a lot that wasn't in range though. Bikes moved up to get a shot at the Burna trukk.
Szeras upgraded a Warrior squad with +1T. I kept it since I knew my Warriors were gonna have to duke it out with Boyz in close combat soon, so this upgrade outta come in handy.

Doomsday Ark opened fire on the Gorkanaut, managed to roll 3 wound dice but my opponent rolled a bloody good save for his KFF that was near the Gorkanaut.

Shooting from half of the Warriors brought a Trukk down to 3 wounds.

Orks, turn 1:

Everything moved up, huge suprise. Burnas rolled an amazing 6" on their advance and thus got in range of the Scarabs. Yikes!

Ork shooting killed two Tomb Blades in total. The 5++ really saved their hides.

Burnas rolled an unfortunate 1 on their D3 shots, even with a Command reroll. Managed to down 2 scarabs.

Necrons, turn 2:

Everything moved up to get into rapid-fire range. Big mistake I made here is not moving up the scarabs a bit. My opponent would have made his charge regardless and because they were now just in front of the Warriors, my opponent was later able to consolidate into them.
Szeras this time upgraded the second Warrior squad to +1S. While I would normally reroll this, I decided against it since I figured they'd need it in fighting Boyz. Turned out they would do nothing but wack at Battlewagons/Trukks, making it worthless.

Shooting.... ugh. Doomsday Ark failed ágain. This time he wiffed his shots.
One warrior squad managed to kill all but one Burna, really effective there.
The rest all opened up on the Battlewagon with the Meganobz. While I had hopes that mass Warrior fire would down a vehicle, T8 makes that pretty much impossible.

Orks, turn 2:

With everything in charge range, the orks rushed forward. The Boyz rushed the front while the Warboss + Meganobz were able to go around the flank and get to my Lychguard.
Gorkanaut went for the Tomb Blades

This time the ork shooting payed off. The Tankbustas opened up with the Dakka Dakka strategem. Good rolls on the Quantum Shielding meant a total of 6 wound were dealt to the Doomsday Ark.

And in the Orks went, WAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!
The Meganobz were the first to fight to avoid combat interruption and managed to kill all the Lychguard. Boy did I miss the 4++ that the shields would give. If only I had the points....
Boyz + Warboss started wacking on the Warriors, but the +1 T really managed to reduce their casualties. A total of two warriors and two scarabs died.
The other squad of Warriors was tied up by the other Battlewagon + Trukk. Despite a Deff Rolla, the vehicles managed to only kill on Warrior.

Gorkanaut vs Tomb Blades... yea you can guess how that went :(.

Necrons, turn 3

Reanimation Protocols brought back a 4 Warriors over the two units.
Two warrior squads stayed put, I was convinced they would be able to hold the tide of Boyz + ork transports. That left the last squad of Warriors + the Immortals left for shooting.
The Overlords moved closer to the front, they were needed in the melee.

Shootin' time! Combined fire of the Warriors (now BS 2+, courtesy of Szeras), the Immortals and the Gauss Flayer Array from the DDA killed the Meganobz. The Doomsday Ark this time managed to put 7 wounds into the Gorkanaut, but I feared it was already too late.

The warriors traded blows with the Boyz and the transports, taking out a suprising amount of them down but doing little damage to the vehicles.

Orks, turn 3:

The Gorkanaut, with parts of the Tomb Blades still in its massive claws, lumbered towards the frontline. The rest of the Orks were in close combat, so it was a short movement phase.

The Tankbustas opened up on the DDA again, this time not so lucky with the Quantum Shielding. A total of 12 wounds utterly destroyed it.

And while the melee continued and slowly drew in my favour, I knew I had no answer to the Gorkanaut. And thus, just as we both had to leave, I conceded the game.

Post-match thoughts:

-Warriors are surprisingly effective against units like Boyz in close combat. While I'm sure they would have lost if there were more Boyz, giving them +1 T or +1S can really make a difference.

-While mass Gauss Flayer fire cán work against T7 vehicles, it's no use when the vehicles is T8.

-definitely more Scarabs! My opponent had a rough time cutting through them. If they could have granted me another turn of shooting, it could have gone very differently (if I had more anti-tank, that is...)

With more scarabs you could field an additional outrider for one more CP.

What about anrakyr with +1A aura? Really useful against enemies that rush you. Those warriors would chop down twice as many boys in CC. Could even do the vehicle shenanigans perhaps. Mostly a gimmick though.

**CthuluIsSpy**

How many points is a veil of darkness, exactly? I can't seem to find the amount. I would like to incorporate into my list to see how it actually performs, but I can't if I don't have a value.

**Arachnofiend**

The veil of darkness is free, since it's the first and only relic you can take in a necron force. Further relics cost CP, not points.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Arachnofiend wrote:
The veil of darkness is free, since it's the first and only relic you can take in a necron force. Further relics cost CP, not points.

Huh, that's different. And looks a little unbalanced.
It would explain why the veil is one use only though. Doesn't explain why the TSons can use theirs as many times as they want.

**arhurt**

Doctoralex wrote:
Alrighty folks, time for another battle report!

2000 points of Orks vs Necrons.

Spoiler:

Battalion:

HQ:
Illuminor Szeras

Cryptek

Troops:
15x Warriors
15x Warriors
10x Immortals /w Tesla

Elite:
10x Lychguard /w Warscythes

Fast attack:
5x Scarabs

6x Tomb Blades /w shieldvanes and Shadowlooms

Heavy Support:
Doomsday Ark

Patrol

2x Overlord /w Warscytches and Ressurection Orbs

troops:
15x Warriors

Orks:
-3 trukks, filled with 2x 12 boyz and one with12 burnas.
-2 Battlewagons, one with 15 Tankbustas and one with 5 -Meganobz, Warboss and Weirdboy
-Mekboy /w KFF
-Gorkanaut

Necron, turn 1:

Well as you can probably guess, my anti-tank was severely lacking. Warriors and Immortals moved up, staying behind the Scarab screen. Still a lot that wasn't in range though. Bikes moved up to get a shot at the Burna trukk.
Szeras upgraded a Warrior squad with +1T. I kept it since I knew my Warriors were gonna have to duke it out with Boyz in close combat soon, so this upgrade outta come in handy.

Doomsday Ark opened fire on the Gorkanaut, managed to roll 3 wound dice but my opponent rolled a bloody good save for his KFF that was near the Gorkanaut.

Shooting from half of the Warriors brought a Trukk down to 3 wounds.

Orks, turn 1:

Everything moved up, huge suprise. Burnas rolled an amazing 6" on their advance and thus got in range of the Scarabs. Yikes!

Ork shooting killed two Tomb Blades in total. The 5++ really saved their hides.

Burnas rolled an unfortunate 1 on their D3 shots, even with a Command reroll. Managed to down 2 scarabs.

Necrons, turn 2:

Everything moved up to get into rapid-fire range. Big mistake I made here is not moving up the scarabs a bit. My opponent would have made his charge regardless and because they were now just in front of the Warriors, my opponent was later able to consolidate into them.
Szeras this time upgraded the second Warrior squad to +1S. While I would normally reroll this, I decided against it since I figured they'd need it in fighting Boyz. Turned out they would do nothing but wack at Battlewagons/Trukks, making it worthless.

Shooting.... ugh. Doomsday Ark failed ágain. This time he wiffed his shots.
One warrior squad managed to kill all but one Burna, really effective there.
The rest all opened up on the Battlewagon with the Meganobz. While I had hopes that mass Warrior fire would down a vehicle, T8 makes that pretty much impossible.

Orks, turn 2:

With everything in charge range, the orks rushed forward. The Boyz rushed the front while the Warboss + Meganobz were able to go around the flank and get to my Lychguard.
Gorkanaut went for the Tomb Blades

This time the ork shooting payed off. The Tankbustas opened up with the Dakka Dakka strategem. Good rolls on the Quantum Shielding meant a total of 6 wound were dealt to the Doomsday Ark.

And in the Orks went, WAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!
The Meganobz were the first to fight to avoid combat interruption and managed to kill all the Lychguard. Boy did I miss the 4++ that the shields would give. If only I had the points....
Boyz + Warboss started wacking on the Warriors, but the +1 T really managed to reduce their casualties. A total of two warriors and two scarabs died.
The other squad of Warriors was tied up by the other Battlewagon + Trukk. Despite a Deff Rolla, the vehicles managed to only kill on Warrior.

Gorkanaut vs Tomb Blades... yea you can guess how that went :(.

Necrons, turn 3

Reanimation Protocols brought back a 4 Warriors over the two units.
Two warrior squads stayed put, I was convinced they would be able to hold the tide of Boyz + ork transports. That left the last squad of Warriors + the Immortals left for shooting.
The Overlords moved closer to the front, they were needed in the melee.

Shootin' time! Combined fire of the Warriors (now BS 2+, courtesy of Szeras), the Immortals and the Gauss Flayer Array from the DDA killed the Meganobz. The Doomsday Ark this time managed to put 7 wounds into the Gorkanaut, but I feared it was already too late.

The warriors traded blows with the Boyz and the transports, taking out a suprising amount of them down but doing little damage to the vehicles.

Orks, turn 3:

The Gorkanaut, with parts of the Tomb Blades still in its massive claws, lumbered towards the frontline. The rest of the Orks were in close combat, so it was a short movement phase.

The Tankbustas opened up on the DDA again, this time not so lucky with the Quantum Shielding. A total of 12 wounds utterly destroyed it.

And while the melee continued and slowly drew in my favour, I knew I had no answer to the Gorkanaut. And thus, just as we both had to leave, I conceded the game.

Post-match thoughts:

-Warriors are surprisingly effective against units like Boyz in close combat. While I'm sure they would have lost if there were more Boyz, giving them +1 T or +1S can really make a difference.

-While mass Gauss Flayer fire cán work against T7 vehicles, it's no use when the vehicles is T8.

-definitely more Scarabs! My opponent had a rough time cutting through them. If they could have granted me another turn of shooting, it could have gone very differently (if I had more anti-tank, that is...)

Great report, thanks for sharing!
I do hope they address the RP unit wiping, those lychguard paid a premium on points for nothing but showing up, the rule had 0 impact on that game.

I'd drop a cryptek and a unit of warriors in favor of more Immortals to gain some room, maybe even drop an Overlord for some more Scarabs and Tomb Blades. A unit of 9 is not as easily removed, I usually keep them at distance until mid-game where I can zoom in and safetly get into rapid fire range.

**Arachnofiend**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
The veil of darkness is free, since it's the first and only relic you can take in a necron force. Further relics cost CP, not points.

Huh, that's different. And looks a little unbalanced.
It would explain why the veil is one use only though. Doesn't explain why the TSons can use theirs as many times as they want.

It's not unbalanced because everyone's relics are like that. Not sure what you mean about TSons, the Athenaen Scrolls is a terrible relic and I'd take the Veil of Darkness over it every time.

**Necronplayer**

torblind wrote:

Unit size is still 10, so not really mitigating the RP weakness?

Agreed. I don't think it would mitigate the weakness entirely, but I think it would be valid to say since you have more wounds on the field at the same point cost, you're dampening the blow?

OL could also MWBD something else. If you have 20 warriors in RP range, they will output more damage then the tesla immortals. Even more with MWBD.

Of you have the relic, you have the option to take anything across the board with MWBD, could be 10 LG, could be 20 warriors, could be 10 gauss immortals. Offering choice to a changing game board

I agree here, as well. MWBD is a great tool for certain units. Your example of LG is spot on. Using MWBD to help land the charge, as opposed to a 300 point unit sitting as a sponge through the next turn.

My point I'm trying to make is that the OL and Tesla immortals synergy, as mentioned a few times on the front page of this thread, doesn't appear to be as effective when you can invest the same amount of points in only Tesla immortals.

**Odrankt**

So... It's better to invest points into 2 units of Tesla Immortals rather then 1 unit be buffed by MWBD? Meaning taking a Cryptek is the "best" HQ based on points and use-ability?

**Necronplayer**

Odrankt wrote:
So... It's better to invest points into 2 units of Tesla Immortals rather then 1 unit be buffed by MWBD? Meaning taking a Cryptek is the "best" HQ based on points and use-ability?

With respect to how many hits you'll get per points, yes, 2 units of immortals is more efficient than 1 unit and an OL.

If you use your immortals to advance, then there will be some value in an OL and MWBD to offset the -1 to hit. But again, that's only one unit that they can buff.

I think a Cryptek/Orikan would be better to babysit your immortals.