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What the title said. At some point for my story I'm going to have to write 3 space battles between Space Marines and Orks but don't know how to write them. A ambush of the scout force in the inner core of the system, a battle in orbit and the final battle again near and in orbit. Can the greenskins be cunning and be capable of strategy enough to cripple a Space Marine fleet and drive it off (the marines have to come back to try and evacuate the remnants of the chapter but that's the last battle for later on near the end of my story) any advise on space battles would be most welcome, cheers

Sure. Though it would be kinda hard to conduct an ambush without some cloaking device (da mek's speshul masheen) or astroid field cover or some other thing that can confuse signals.
(da mek's jammin thingy)

I'd really love to help you. It sounds like an interesting project you're working on. But I've kinda always struggle with the concept of Orks in the 41st Millenium. They just seem too.... stupid. I've never really understood how they've ever been a serious threat to the Imperium. How they can fly giant space cruisers and invade planets. Why don't they just get annihilated at every turn by high tec and well organised Space Marines despite the numbers advantage? I just never thought they were that credible as a threat in the 40k universe. I realise that might anger a few of the big Meganobz on here, it's just my opinion.

I remember when the Gorkamorka game came out. That really suited them. That was a really fun game.

So, yeh, sorry, this probably isn't really a worthwhile post from me. It doesn't really help you but I do understand where you're coming from. Hopefully some of the Ork players here can help you. Failing that I don't know if it's an option to scale down to a single planet/near space conflict with a small scout force becoming isolated and requiring rescue or whatever. But that would be a shame too because I do like huge space battles. Dunno pal, but I wish you luck.

 Decio wrote:
Sure. Though it would be kinda hard to conduct an ambush without some cloaking device (da mek's speshul masheen) or astroid field cover or some other thing that can confuse signals.
(da mek's jammin thingy)

Also, orks are known for using hollowed asteroids, rokks, as warships.

I recall a bit of fluff stating that many an imperial tradesman has wandered into an asteroid field only to find some seemingly harmless rocks firing up engines and closing in for the kill.

 alanmckenzie wrote:
I'd really love to help you. It sounds like an interesting project you're working on. But I've kinda always struggle with the concept of Orks in the 41st Millenium. They just seem too.... stupid. I've never really understood how they've ever been a serious threat to the Imperium. How they can fly giant space cruisers and invade planets. Why don't they just get annihilated at every turn by high tec and well organised Space Marines despite the numbers advantage? I just never thought they were that credible as a threat in the 40k universe. I realise that might anger a few of the big Meganobz on here, it's just my opinion.

I remember when the Gorkamorka game came out. That really suited them. That was a really fun game.

So, yeh, sorry, this probably isn't really a worthwhile post from me. It doesn't really help you but I do understand where you're coming from. Hopefully some of the Ork players here can help you. Failing that I don't know if it's an option to scale down to a single planet/near space conflict with a small scout force becoming isolated and requiring rescue or whatever. But that would be a shame too because I do like huge space battles. Dunno pal, but I wish you luck.

While I use to agree with you, I try to think of it as more random Orky attitude along with their belief system. A lot of their stuff works simply because they believe it does, they have a massed psychic nature about them as a race that allows this to happen. Painting something Red doesn't actually make it go faster, but because the Orks BELIEVE it does the Trukk actually goes faster. I think the same goes for just about anything. Their engines on their ships probably don't work logically, but because a Big Mek says it works and all the Orks believe the Big Mek it semi-magically bursts into action. As per their attitude they have the ultimate "can do" attitude. Nothing deters them, and nothing ever makes them think "wait a second, this is stupid". This means that giant gambles nobody else is willing to attempt can pay off for the Orks. It also means that sometimes, yes, they get utterly slaughtered. But since there are so many of them, they can attempt this at every point on the battlefield and not suffer all that much. I.E. think China's Human Wave tactic. There was no logic behind that, utter stupidity is about the best you can hope for. However, simply throwing that many people at a problem was bound to show a weak point, and that is where you put your real forces after the initial giant wave.

 Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:

 alanmckenzie wrote:
I'd really love to help you. It sounds like an interesting project you're working on. But I've kinda always struggle with the concept of Orks in the 41st Millenium. They just seem too.... stupid. I've never really understood how they've ever been a serious threat to the Imperium. How they can fly giant space cruisers and invade planets. Why don't they just get annihilated at every turn by high tec and well organised Space Marines despite the numbers advantage? I just never thought they were that credible as a threat in the 40k universe. I realise that might anger a few of the big Meganobz on here, it's just my opinion.

I remember when the Gorkamorka game came out. That really suited them. That was a really fun game.

So, yeh, sorry, this probably isn't really a worthwhile post from me. It doesn't really help you but I do understand where you're coming from. Hopefully some of the Ork players here can help you. Failing that I don't know if it's an option to scale down to a single planet/near space conflict with a small scout force becoming isolated and requiring rescue or whatever. But that would be a shame too because I do like huge space battles. Dunno pal, but I wish you luck.

While I use to agree with you, I try to think of it as more random Orky attitude along with their belief system. A lot of their stuff works simply because they believe it does, they have a massed psychic nature about them as a race that allows this to happen. Painting something Red doesn't actually make it go faster, but because the Orks BELIEVE it does the Trukk actually goes faster. I think the same goes for just about anything. Their engines on their ships probably don't work logically, but because a Big Mek says it works and all the Orks believe the Big Mek it semi-magically bursts into action. As per their attitude they have the ultimate "can do" attitude. Nothing deters them, and nothing ever makes them think "wait a second, this is stupid". This means that giant gambles nobody else is willing to attempt can pay off for the Orks. It also means that sometimes, yes, they get utterly slaughtered. But since there are so many of them, they can attempt this at every point on the battlefield and not suffer all that much.

Yeh, I accept that. It's an interesting perspective. I readily admit to never having read any of the Ork fluff or background or anything, but yeh, I can kinda see it. Your explanation helps.

When the Orks attacked Rynns World (Crimson Fist homeworld) they came out of the warp really close to the planet which caught the defenders off guard because if the Orks had got it wrong, they could of appeared inside the gravity of the planet and lost all their ships. Suicidal but smart from the Orks.

Well, as being utterly destroyed by them in BFG and RT can show you, orks are pretty good space fighters, with lots of hard as nails ship (kroozers, terror ships, ram ships and. obviously, hulks and roks), bristling with powerful (if short range and unpredictable) gun bateries, deadly in close quarters (where they can ram or board any ship with predictably catastrophic results) and capable of launching waves after waves of multi-role fighta-bommas driven by reckless ace pilots.
They are a good match for SM in particulars, as their tactics are somehow similar: getting up close and personal to hammer enemy ships with powerful, short-ranged broadsides (weapon batteries and devastating bombardment cannons for SMs vs orks' big gunz), while launching waves of powerful multi-role fighters as cover, all the time trying to maneuver to launch the most vicious (barring Tyranids, of course) boarding parties of the whole BFG game. The main difference is that, while SM fleet tend to maneuvre in closely controlled formations to combine their firepower and outmaneuvre their enemy, breaking their formations, orks tend to rush on, trying to overwhelm their oipponents with sheer numbers and tenacity.
In addition, while SM fleet actions are well coordinated and disciplined, Ork ships tend to act on their own, sometimes abandoning every appearence of a plan as soon as the battle is joined.

Fluff speaking, multiple sources show Orks as being particularly cunning (sorry, kunning) and shrewd space fighters, capable of devastating ambushes (like the already named rok fields tactic) and unconventional tactics, usually taking full advantage of the typically unpredictable ork tech: long range, massed tellyporta boardings, traktor beams to launch asteroids against the enemy or to tear their ships to shreds, weirdboy-powered warp weaponry (or even proper psychic bombs to blow enemy fleet off the immaterium), jamming signals, force fields and the likes (they are, after all, one of the BFG fleets with the most options, while having a really low number of different ship types, in the classic ramshackle style and one-size fits-it-all greenskin philosophy).

All in all, the main carachteristic of Orks is randomness: you can expect them to follow both the kunning brutality of Gork or the brutal kunning of Gork, always surprising you with both (potential) master plans or apparently suicidial tactics, but always devolving in a swirling, chaotic everyone-for-himself melee as the battle is joined.

It might be helpful to read the ork rules from battlefleet Gothic http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1280010_BFG_Xenos_Fleets.pdf

In my story they have landed and taken the planet apart from two cities before my chapter arrived, a scout force of vessels have been sent to the inner core from the 2nd planet, they need to get wiped out. The fleet in orbit need to be forced from the planet then a space battle at the end (don't know what is going to happen in that one but have a few ideas floating about) I need help with what lingo your meant to use for space movement, distance and calcutations they use to plot their targets.

Ork stuff works because Meks instinctivly know how to put stuff together and the Waaaagh field compensates for what shouldn't work.

Orks use looted ships from other races, hollowed out asteroids called Rokks(that have engines and guns stuck on them pointing everywhich way), as well as Space Hulks and the occasional scratch built ork warship.

Orks favor ambushes and boarding, they are not ones to ships-of-the-line combat like the Imperial Navy

as for what kind of tech they use, lexicanum has full inventories:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork_Vessels_(List)#.UHH5yU3A_X4
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork_Fleet_Weapons#.UHH50U3A_X4

And as always, if you see three orks there's probably at least four more somewhere near. Even the best of fleets can be routed when there's too many targets barreling in, firing wildly and lining up for full frontal ramming runs. Several ork Kaptins will be attacking the same target in wildly different ways, all trying to be the first to cripple and board it.

I love the references on these topic, Gave me an eyegasm

All i can say is based off of info I've read in the past and games played in RPGs Orcs normally trickle into the system in non-standard ways and don't use warp travel less they managed to salvage a warp drive that already exists (to this day i think it's something orks cannot produce themselves... makes sense since it's imperfect for mankind as is since the emperor was perfecting it before the HH)

Normally an Ork rok will look even to scanners completely normally due to the thickness of the shell and a lack of caring where they end up though they seem to somehow stay grouped together despite the pragmatic nature of achieving parallel travel within space when a small distance can calculate to vast changes over time. regardless they normally smash into play be it another ship or planet and start killin

Kill Kroozahs and the like though get chaotic and can become their own little worlds where gangs walk amongst the ship looking to cause trouble with another group of boyz when suddenly an alarm might go off that an enemy ship is quitely coasting by. The chaotic mad-max style ship suddenly bristles into a war machine and meks assume control of vast majorities of the ship like it's 2nd nature and what is considered a dead ship suddenly bursts into life and chases down the enemy ship giving it a nice ram while firing all weapons. If the weapons or ram doesn't explode one of both ships the orks prepare boarding actions using normally nasty klaws to rip open the hull and pour boys in as fast as possible. Though they often use crude fighters and looted patrol vehicles as well to make it aboard the enemy craft.

While under a Waaagh however the orks get alot more organized and smart when it comes to ship combat. Normally a vigilant commander should be able to spot an ork ship and neutralize it before it becomes ready for battle in it's dead wake but lead by a killy warboss the ships are always at the ready and looking for new salvage and loot while on the migratation to a new world to stomp. At this point they are pretty standard style combaters, orks tend to not favor mobility or handling of their ships. Instead they favor firepower and bulk which means ork ships typically outsize other enemy vessels until you start reaching larger scales of ship combat. Not particularly dangerous but never small in number a proper waaagh of ships is intimidating for anyone to witness first crawling into the system less they are advanced enough ships to warp jump.

Another quick question. Do they have space suits? For boarding.

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Another quick question. Do they have space suits? For boarding.

I wonder this myself, but the way I see it Orks are so tough and belligerent that I would not be surprised if they have little or no space suits at all.

I would expect at most, some kind of semi-sealed helmet that is cracked and broken but the wearer 'believes' it works.

I would say Orks are definitely tough enough to last in a vacuum for a relatively long time compared to a human, possibly longer than a Space Marine would... The rest of their vacuum survival is probably down to their refusal to die and/or belief that their ramshackle 'space gear' still works.

Orks can survive Vaccum for a fair amount of time. So they wouldn't need Space Suits provided they got inside quickly.

Maybe that's why they're eyes are all so bulging.

I've written the destruction of the scout force and will post it up in my fiction tomorrow but I'm saving the most I've learnt in the thread for the battle in orbit. Thanks to everyone who has posted but keep it coming as I enjoy reading what you all put up, cheers

I recall that in one of the BL novels a extremely smart warboss put his weird boys on a small space huk in the warp and used them to knock out the navigators of imperial ships causing them to fall out of warp travel early then a large ambush fleet comes out of a asteroid belt destroying several imperial heavy cruisers and transports their main tactic being torpedo runs and boarders not relying on lance batteries like imperial ships

I think it would be a space equivalent of a land battle.
BAH! Just 'ammer em wif boyz until we clobber em. Nevar mind lossez. Der's alwayz moar where dat kame frum.

The thing about Orks is... in broad strokes they tend to be an unruly mob of thugs (even in space) with little accuracy.. but the nature of Ork kind can kinda surprise you. Kinda like with Kommandos. The race as a whole adapts to a situation as needed, and produces what will give a best objective. So in theory you could get the Orkish version of a decent naval crew if there was some pressure for the Orks to have one. I was thinking part Stormboyz, part Flash Gitz, and part Kommando and cram that into a Freebooter mob.

Connor MacLeod wrote:
The race as a whole adapts to a situation as needed, and produces what will give a best objective. So in theory you could get the Orkish version of a decent naval crew if there was some pressure for the Orks to have one. I was thinking part Stormboyz, part Flash Gitz, and part Kommando and cram that into a Freebooter mob.

In FFG's Rogue Trader game, Blood Axe starship crews are better at running silently than crews of other klans. They're being sneaky.
But I still 'ates em. Bloox Axez izn't proppa orkz.

Based on my knowledge of Battlefleet Gothic, most Ork fleets consist of large numbers of vessels built from scrap and designed at least as much with ramming in mind as exchanging gunfire, and Space Marine vessels are optimized more for planetary assaults than space battles anyway. An Ork fleet beating a Space Marine fleet in a straight-up fight is totally plausible, given that Orks would outnumber the Space Marines significantly any way you look at it.

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Maybe that's why they're eyes are all so bulging.

Orks do use void-suits. It normally is just a face mask with an air-canister and occasionally armor plates for protection. but normally it isn't anything amazing But orks are a little too smart to just jump out without a void suit (some will of course)

I highly suggest you get the Rogue Trader books which an an excellent rpg system which allows you to make an Ork Freebooter who is a sanctioned Xeno. Like other orks you can send at the enemy they are able to equip a void suit and vox bead.

 plonka2000 wrote:

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Another quick question. Do they have space suits? For boarding.

I wonder this myself, but the way I see it Orks are so tough and belligerent that I would not be surprised if they have little or no space suits at all.

I would expect at most, some kind of semi-sealed helmet that is cracked and broken but the wearer 'believes' it works.

I would say Orks are definitely tough enough to last in a vacuum for a relatively long time compared to a human, possibly longer than a Space Marine would... The rest of their vacuum survival is probably down to their refusal to die and/or belief that their ramshackle 'space gear' still works.

I picture a bag and a straw.

nomotog wrote:

 plonka2000 wrote:

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Another quick question. Do they have space suits? For boarding.

I wonder this myself, but the way I see it Orks are so tough and belligerent that I would not be surprised if they have little or no space suits at all.

I would expect at most, some kind of semi-sealed helmet that is cracked and broken but the wearer 'believes' it works.

I would say Orks are definitely tough enough to last in a vacuum for a relatively long time compared to a human, possibly longer than a Space Marine would... The rest of their vacuum survival is probably down to their refusal to die and/or belief that their ramshackle 'space gear' still works.

I picture a bag and a straw.

Exactly

If the ork thinks it works, it works.


I'm thinking one of those old swimming masks and a snorkle

And now I want to make up a couple orks in void suits consisting of swimming gear

Would the greenskin use a captured vessel to fool their enemy into letting their guard down since they champ at the bit to get at there foe normally?

Sure why not.

Ork warbosses can easily surprise people with the complexity and ingeniousness of their tactics.

Im pretty sure the orks capture alot of ships since they are prone to boarding actions. As for being able to trick the enemy, Idk. It would be hard but possible