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In the new Chaos Codex, power weapons are listed under the wargear section for terminators. Does this mean that they can take either a standard Ap3 power weapon or an Ap2 power axe?

p61 BRB describes this. Unless the codex says something more specific, you have the choice to select the type of weapon.

Snapshot wrote:
you have the choice to select the type of weapon.

Citation needed.

You just need to forge a narrative. This model has an axe because he took it from the dead body of a marine from (insert legion here).

 Testify wrote:

Snapshot wrote:
you have the choice to select the type of weapon.

Citation needed.

Power weapons P.61 tells us we need to look at the model to tell which type it is.

So if it is modeled as an axe then it is an axe, modeled as a sword, it is a sword. Etc.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Testify wrote:

Snapshot wrote:
you have the choice to select the type of weapon.

Citation needed.

Power weapons P.61 tells us we need to look at the model to tell which type it is.

So if it is modeled as an axe then it is an axe, modeled as a sword, it is a sword. Etc.

...stop doing that. You give a page reference and quote, then *USE YOUR OWN INFERANCE* to insist that it's RAW. It's not.

That is actually right from Page 61, I am not inferring anything.

Here is the full quote from P.61: "If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has: if it's a sword or dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or halberd, it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or staff, it's a power maul; if it's a spear or lance, it's a power lance."

It is clear that you need to "look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has." P.61

so if the model has an axe, what kind of power weapon does the model have, a Power Sword, Power axe, Power maul, Power lance?

The power weapon rules are the worst written rules in the 6th edition rulebook, IMHO. Regardless, a rule that tells you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon it has is not carte blanche permission to choose what type of power weapon the model has. If anything does, it is the non-specific use of the term 'power weapon' in the codex that would allow you to choose and not the main rulebook.

 Testify wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Testify wrote:

Snapshot wrote:
you have the choice to select the type of weapon.

Citation needed.

Power weapons P.61 tells us we need to look at the model to tell which type it is.

So if it is modeled as an axe then it is an axe, modeled as a sword, it is a sword. Etc.

...stop doing that. You give a page reference and quote, then *USE YOUR OWN INFERANCE* to insist that it's RAW. It's not.

Not this again....
I have a HQ model modeled with a mace... been that way for @20 years.... Prove it isn't a "Power Maul", as defined in the BRB.

 Testify wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Testify wrote:

Snapshot wrote:
you have the choice to select the type of weapon.

Citation needed.

Power weapons P.61 tells us we need to look at the model to tell which type it is.

So if it is modeled as an axe then it is an axe, modeled as a sword, it is a sword. Etc.

...stop doing that. You give a page reference and quote, then *USE YOUR OWN INFERANCE* to insist that it's RAW. It's not.

So what you are saying is a power weapon is not a power weapon?

You may choose the type of power weapon if power weapon is stated. Power swords if it is modeled as such. Power ax if you have an axe. Power lance for modelled lances.

I point you to all of the updated faqs that replace power whatever with power weapon except for specialized unique power weapons. Power sword in c:ba is replaced with power weapon. Power weapon is listed in the main rule book. Therefore you use those rules.

I love how this topic keeps coming up with the exact same argument...
If anybody can find one of the previous threads (there was one right after 6th ed was released) then we can probably skip all the back and forth.

It boils down to;
1. You are allowed to model legitimate wargear on your models (Not RAW but if you want to go there then I won't even take the models out of the box, let alone off the sprue).
2. Certain models have a generic power weapon as an option.
3. If a model has a generic Power Weapon you look at the model to determine type (RAW).
4. You can model what ever type of power weapon on your model as long as the wargear option only says "Power Weapon" (combination of 1, 2, and 3. Again not RAW due to #1).
5. Some people claim that modelling any type of power weapon is MFA.
6. Some people are idiots (has nothing to do with the previous point).

FFS, not this again. Yes, you can choose.

rogueeyes wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Testify wrote:

Snapshot wrote:
you have the choice to select the type of weapon.

Citation needed.

Power weapons P.61 tells us we need to look at the model to tell which type it is.

So if it is modeled as an axe then it is an axe, modeled as a sword, it is a sword. Etc.

...stop doing that. You give a page reference and quote, then *USE YOUR OWN INFERANCE* to insist that it's RAW. It's not.

So what you are saying is a power weapon is not a power weapon?

You may choose the type of power weapon if power weapon is stated. Power swords if it is modeled as such. Power ax if you have an axe. Power lance for modelled lances.

I point you to all of the updated faqs that replace power whatever with power weapon except for specialized unique power weapons. Power sword in c:ba is replaced with power weapon. Power weapon is listed in the main rule book. Therefore you use those rules.

And some of the FAQs are doing the reverse (Power Weapon --> Power "insert type here". See Howling Banshees.

 DeathReaper wrote:
That is actually right from Page 61, I am not inferring anything.

Here is the full quote from P.61: "If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has: if it's a sword or dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or halberd, it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or staff, it's a power maul; if it's a spear or lance, it's a power lance."

It is clear that you need to "look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has." P.61

so if the model has an axe, what kind of power weapon does the model have, a Power Sword, Power axe, Power maul, Power lance?

You said you can choose. "Look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has" does not mean you can choose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 helgrenze wrote:

Not this again....
I have a HQ model modeled with a mace... been that way for @20 years.... Prove it isn't a "Power Maul", as defined in the BRB.

Due to the ambiguity of the rules, some common sense is in order. I doubt people will mind your captain with a power maul, it's more the units of specialised power weapon users. Most of the "worst" ones have been fixed in FAQs though.

well if you have any way or willingness to convert the model to a different weapon then yes, that means it is a CHOICE of which weapon you want....

 Testify wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
That is actually right from Page 61, I am not inferring anything.

Here is the full quote from P.61: "If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has: if it's a sword or dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or halberd, it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or staff, it's a power maul; if it's a spear or lance, it's a power lance."

It is clear that you need to "look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has." P.61

so if the model has an axe, what kind of power weapon does the model have, a Power Sword, Power axe, Power maul, Power lance?

You said you can choose. "Look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has" does not mean you can choose.

Except you can choose, as the entry tells you the model has a power weapon. and to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon.

If the model you put on the table has an axe then it is a power axe.

If the model you put on the table has a sword, then it is a power sword.

If the model you put on the table has a Staff or mace, then it is a power maul.

If the model you put on the table has a lance, then it is a power lance.

As per the rules on Page 61.

Not necessarily. You could be physically coerced into using a power weapon model that isn't of your choosing.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
That is actually right from Page 61, I am not inferring anything.

Here is the full quote from P.61: "If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has: if it's a sword or dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or halberd, it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or staff, it's a power maul; if it's a spear or lance, it's a power lance."

It is clear that you need to "look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has." P.61

so if the model has an axe, what kind of power weapon does the model have, a Power Sword, Power axe, Power maul, Power lance?

You said you can choose. "Look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has" does not mean you can choose.

Except you can choose, as the entry tells you the model has a power weapon. and to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon.

So where does it say that you can choose?

You "choose" by modelling a power weapon of your choice onto the model when you make your model WySIWYG.

The only time I Would have an issue, is if you're model is not WYSIWYG (which I'm fine with BTW) and you either change the weapon mid-game or decide what type of power weapon it is right before the game starts and you can see what I'm bringing to the table.

Correct, Testify, there are no rules allowing you to pick a model out of your bag to use in a game of 40k. Everyone therefore must lose every game of 40k, forever, due to page 122, Victory Conditions.

Page 61 when it tells you to "look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has"

The type of weapon is dependent on the model you are placing on the table.

Happyjew wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Testify wrote:

Snapshot wrote:
you have the choice to select the type of weapon.

Citation needed.

Power weapons P.61 tells us we need to look at the model to tell which type it is.

So if it is modeled as an axe then it is an axe, modeled as a sword, it is a sword. Etc.

...stop doing that. You give a page reference and quote, then *USE YOUR OWN INFERANCE* to insist that it's RAW. It's not.

So what you are saying is a power weapon is not a power weapon?

You may choose the type of power weapon if power weapon is stated. Power swords if it is modeled as such. Power ax if you have an axe. Power lance for modelled lances.

I point you to all of the updated faqs that replace power whatever with power weapon except for specialized unique power weapons. Power sword in c:ba is replaced with power weapon. Power weapon is listed in the main rule book. Therefore you use those rules.

And some of the FAQs are doing the reverse (Power Weapon --> Power "insert type here". See Howling Banshees.

Yes but I'm not talking about the specific power weapons. Chaplains have a power maul. No matter how you model it you still have a power maul. A power weapon is how you choose to model it.

Page 61 gives you the results of your choice, but it never specifically gives you a choice. The closest thing that gives you a choice is the non-specific use of the term 'power weapon' in the codices versus the more specific 'power axe', etc.

 Ghaz wrote:
Page 61 gives you the results of your choice, but it never specifically gives you a choice. The closest thing that gives you a choice is the non-specific use of the term 'power weapon' in the codices versus the more specific 'power axe', etc.

The rules for modelling your weapon of choice are in the same place as the rules for assembling you miniatures.

Agreed, and that place is not on page 61.

...The official terminator models COME WITH power axes, so that couldn't even be considered MFA.

Modeling-for-advantage is a touchy subject for a lot of people, and has surprisingly few rules covering it, despite including quite a few in-game effects, silly and otherwise. (Anybody painted eyes on their Wraithlord/guard models yet?) I prefer to be conservative in my own modeling and accepting of other people's modeling, as arguing about MFA isn't really much fun in either direction.

I suspect there are people among those currently arguing for allowing you to add a power weapon subtype not on the standard models, who would also balk at adding swivel mounts to vehicular weapons where the official model has a fixed mount (not counting cases where the rules say the weapon is hull mounted, just where the model is). Both rules say "look at the model", do they not?

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. The rules changed to allow some additional customisation of power weapon wielding models, and your choice has to trade off S, AP and Init. IF my model does not have what I want to play in that game, I would write it on my list and declare to my opponent before the game starts. If you try to change this after you've seen what your opponent is fielding, then I guess you're TFG.

And don't forget the ultimate rule that this is supposed to be a fun game and as long as you agree something with your opponent you can do pretty much anything you like. Want to try out power axes, but don't have any yet, ask your opponent. Want to see what it would be like if you biker chaplain had a power lance (not sure why you would ever want to, but whatever), then ask your opponent and try it out.

I suppose the better questions would be: Why the hell in the first 6th ed. codex, after making a point of splitting the rules for power weapons into distinct categories in the rulebook, are terminators equipped in such a loosely worded way?

Does Phil Kelly really believe that Power swords/axes/mauls/lances are all worth exactly the same points on terminators?

The Infinite wrote:
I suppose the better questions would be: Why the hell in the first 6th ed. codex, after making a point of splitting the rules for power weapons into distinct categories in the rulebook, are terminators equipped in such a loosely worded way?

It's not loosely worded. Rulebook is 100% clear what does it mean when model is equipped with power weapon.

The Infinite wrote:
Does Phil Kelly really believe that Power swords/axes/mauls/lances are all worth exactly the same points on terminators?

Not only Phil Kelly does that, whole 40k design team thinks that way. The design paradigm of 6e is that all power weapons are worth the same amount of points. This has been heavily affirmed by both published Errata and now by Chaos Codex.

And personally I think sword/axe/maul are pretty well balanced in comparison to each other. Lances are the red-headed step-childs of the power weapon family though, I'm hard pressed to think of a realistic scenario where I'd rather take lance than one of the other power weapons. If lance was AP2 or S+2 during charge, then things would be different.