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Explosion pg 74 wrote:
The vehicle is then removed and replaced with scattered wreckage (area terrain) or a crater roughly the same size as the vehicle (if you have one).

Wreckage pg 105 wrote:
Wreckage and rubble are area terrain. If a model is in cover behind wreckage or rubble, it has a 4+ cover save.

Impact Crater pg 105 wrote:
Impact craters are area terrain. If a model is in cover within an impact crater, it has a 5+ cover save.

So, a vehicle that explodes is replaced with either wreckage or a crater, both of which have their own rules. Who gets to decide whether it's wreckage or a crater?

I'd agree about it before the game, and make sure both players are using the same type.

It isn't phrased as a choice, but rather as being based on availability.

It'll likely be FAQed to be the same cover save no matter what, like they did in 5th edition.

I agree with rigeld2 on this one.

Of course, those two rules say "crater" and "impact crater", and an exploding vehicle would not cause an "impact" crater imo.

I would treat the two differently in any case.

I never noticed that. Really they should update this to be the same save, seems odd really.

We just remove the model - too poor to afford spceial models for when a tank blows up.

rigeld2 wrote:
It'll likely be FAQed to be the same cover save no matter what, like they did in 5th edition.

What manner of cover are people actually playing exploded vehicles then?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It'll likely be FAQed to be the same cover save no matter what, like they did in 5th edition.

What manner of cover are people actually playing exploded vehicles then?

My gaming group plays them as scattered wreckage (area terrain).

I have small cutouts for my vehicles when they explode that are just the size of the profile, we always count them as area terrain and using these things solves the problem of having a vehicle wreck and gaining more area for cover saves, as few craters are the size of the vehicle in question.

I would definitely discuss this issue pre-game. I would recommend not using craters as they are always in some way larger than the vehicle that exploded (and a wobbly model nightmare), their size can also lead to issues like a unit that assaulted and blew up said vehicle all of a sudden also being in terrain, which is not fair to the assaulting unit in some instances and advantageous to that unit in other instances. It's worth noting that if the unit is pinned or goes to ground in either case they'll get a 3+ save whether it's area terrain or a barricade.


I would say do as others have suggests and use thin flat cut outs of the vehicle in question which exploded OR use dice or markers to make an outline OR simply put nothing down.

If the vehicle "destroyed (explodes)" it's replaced with "Scattered wreckage", I.E. impact crater (5+ difficult terrain). If the vehicle is "destroyed (wrecked)", it's replaced with wreckage (4+, dangerous terrain).

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
If the vehicle "destroyed (explodes)" it's replaced with "Scattered wreckage", I.E. impact crater (5+ difficult terrain).

Your statement is only half true as that is not the only option:

Page 74 tells us that:

"The vehicle is then removed and replaced with scattered wreckage (area terrain) or a crater roughly the same size as the vehicle (if you have one)."

It can be "scattered wreckage (area terrain)" or "a crater"

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
If the vehicle is "destroyed (wrecked)", it's replaced with wreckage (4+, dangerous terrain).

This is 100% false. because:

"wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become a piece of terrain" P.74

Our group currently uses crap cd's as they are flat and a decent approximation of many vehicles.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
If the vehicle "destroyed (explodes)" it's replaced with "Scattered wreckage", I.E. impact crater (5+ difficult terrain).

Your statement is only half true as that is not the only option:

Page 74 tells us that:

"The vehicle is then removed and replaced with scattered wreckage (area terrain) or a crater roughly the same size as the vehicle (if you have one)."

It can be "scattered wreckage (area terrain)" or "a crater"

Both of which gives 5+ cover. It's not "decide which you want". It's "use the one you have".

 DeathReaper wrote:

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
If the vehicle is "destroyed (wrecked)", it's replaced with wreckage (4+, dangerous terrain).

This is 100% false. because:

"wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become a piece of terrain" P.74

How does that falsify my statement? "Replace with wreckage" just means for example; remove turret, turn upside down or something similar. Wrecks are dangerous terrain, plus getting cover from it provides a 4+ cover save.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=40k%20crater&_sop=15

Slightly related. Enjoy

You people talking about what you physically use are missing the whole point, please read the OP.

Vechicle Explosion says to use two different types of terrain. One is a 4+ area terrain, one is a 5+ area terrain. It doesn't say who gets to pick.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You people talking about what you physically use are missing the whole point, please read the OP.

Vechicle Explosion says to use two different types of terrain. One is a 4+ area terrain, one is a 5+ area terrain. It doesn't say who gets to pick.

The topic specifically asks who gets to decide.

Anyway, explosion doesn't say use two different types of terrain. Explosion leaves a crater (which is a 5+ cover save) or scattered wreckage (area terrain which also gives a 5+ cover save).

Reading over the rules on pg.74, Destroyed (wrecked) where the vehicle is left on the table, also gives 5+ cover save. There's not a single mention of a 4+ cover save anywhere on page 74 which deals with this stuff, so I don't understand where the OP dug this problem up from.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
If the vehicle "destroyed (explodes)" it's replaced with "Scattered wreckage", I.E. impact crater (5+ difficult terrain).

Your statement is only half true as that is not the only option:

Page 74 tells us that:

"The vehicle is then removed and replaced with scattered wreckage (area terrain) or a crater roughly the same size as the vehicle (if you have one)."

It can be "scattered wreckage (area terrain)" or "a crater"

Both of which gives 5+ cover. It's not "decide which you want". It's "use the one you have".

1) Wreckage gives a 4+ cover save, Impact Craters give a 5+ cover save (P.105 for both entries).

2) if you have both you have to choose one to use.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
If the vehicle is "destroyed (wrecked)", it's replaced with wreckage (4+, dangerous terrain).

This is 100% false. because:

"wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become a piece of terrain" P.74

How does that falsify my statement? "Replace with wreckage" just means for example; remove turret, turn upside down or something similar. Wrecks are dangerous terrain, plus getting cover from it provides a 4+ cover save.

1) Because It does not say "Replace with wreckage"...

2) There is no longer a "destroyed (wrecked)" result, this in achieved by removing all Hull Points.

3) You do not remove the model from the table in the case of a wreck, it is left in place and gives a 5+ cover save. (P.74 Wrecked Vehicles section).

That is how it falsifies your statement.

Battlefield debris does not cover results from destroyed vehicles. Pg.74 specifically states what you use.

When a vehicle loses all hull points it's wrecked, and it says specifically that it gives 5+ cover. Destroyed (explodes) says specifically that what remains is "scattered wreckage (area terrain), or crater ...". Both of which provides 5+ cover.

Pg 74 specifically says "The vehicle is then removed and replaced with scattered wreckage (area terrain) or a crater roughly the same size as the vehicle (if you have one)." but does not provide a cover save for that area terrain.

However, P105 : Wreckage/Rubble (area terrain) 4+ cover save

I think the problem is the OP is equating "a crater roughly the same size of your vehicle (if you have one)" with the area terrain "Impact Crater" on p105 which gives a 5+ cover save.

RAI would be take your vehicle, replace it with wreckage/crater/whatever you have to use to represent a vehcile that has exploded and use it as Wreckage/Rubble area terrain (4+ cover save) (IMO of course)

If the vehicle did not explode and was merely "wrecked" (lost all hull points) it stays where it is and is 5+ cover save.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
Battlefield debris does not cover results from destroyed vehicles. Pg.74 specifically states what you use.

When a vehicle loses all hull points it's wrecked, and it says specifically that it gives 5+ cover. Destroyed (explodes) says specifically that what remains is "scattered wreckage (area terrain), or crater ...". Both of which provides 5+ cover.

Citation needed for the underlined.

Area terrain = 5+ cover save. (Pg.18)

Oh, and battlefield debris =/= vehicle wreck. Read the very first sentence on battlefield debris pg 105.

Ah. Good point SgtSixkilla.

Replaced with scattered wreckage (area terrain) could very well mean "treat it as area terrain", full stop. 5+ cover save.

(written while you edited)

* edit again : So why, in Battlefield Debris, does it specifically say "Wreckage" if wreckage (which I imagine equates to vehicle wreckage as I can't think of any other kind considering buildings are rubble .. what else is left?) =/= vehicle wreck. Yet another poorly worded usage I think.

"Wreckage and rubble are area terrain. If a model is in cover behind wreckage or rubble, it has a 4+ cover save." P.105

Scattered wreckage = Wreckage

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Wreckage and rubble are area terrain. If a model is in cover behind wreckage or rubble, it has a 4+ cover save." P.105

Scattered wreckage = Wreckage

Wrong. "Scattered wreckage (area terrain)" (pg.74) = area terrain. Area terrain = 5+cover (pg. 18).

The problem here is not the Explodes! result. That is crystal clear. The remains of Explodes! is 5+ cover. Scattered wreckage (area terrain) =/= Wreckage.

The problem is pg.105 where it says "battlefield debris (wreckage) = 4+". However, battlefield debris is not added to the battlefield after the battle has started. In the description for battlefield debris, it says "Doubtlessly, the land over which you now battle has seen many such conflicts before, and those wars might have left behind something that can serve in this new struggle." Which means Battlefield Debris is debris that were on the table before you started the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rorschach9 wrote:

* edit again : So why, in Battlefield Debris, does it specifically say "Wreckage" if wreckage (which I imagine equates to vehicle wreckage as I can't think of any other kind considering buildings are rubble .. what else is left?) =/= vehicle wreck. Yet another poorly worded usage I think.

I agree. But battlefield debris (as described on pages 104 and 105) does not pertain to this question. Battlefield debris (wreckage) is stuff like the downed aquila lander scenery piece, the wrecked rhino scenery piece etc.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Wreckage and rubble are area terrain. If a model is in cover behind wreckage or rubble, it has a 4+ cover save." P.105

Scattered wreckage = Wreckage

Wrong. "Scattered wreckage (area terrain)" (pg.74) = area terrain. Area terrain = 5+cover (pg. 18).

The problem here is not the Explodes! result. That is crystal clear. The remains of Explodes! is 5+ cover. Scattered wreckage (area terrain) =/= Wreckage.

The problem is pg.105 where it says "battlefield debris (wreckage) = 4+". However, battlefield debris is not added to the battlefield after the battle has started. In the description for battlefield debris, it says "Doubtlessly, the land over which you now battle has seen many such conflicts before, and those wars might have left behind something that can serve in this new struggle." Which means Battlefield Debris is debris that were on the table before you started the game.

I'm convinced but be prepared to be told "That's just the fluff. Fluff =/= rules".

I'm prepared to answer: Who says that's fluff?

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
I'm prepared to answer: Who says that's fluff?

I had the issue of "that's fluff" when defending drop pod doors opening. I don't see it in the fluff myself, but others apparently do.

This being YMDC you never know what you're going to get.

Yeah. I got the same in the same discussion. Some people, eh? Interpreting rules to get a certain benefit was never my style. It always comes back to bite you in the donkey.

Anyway, to me, it's pretty clear what's intended, as it says on the explodes result that what's left is area terrain, and page 18 says area terrain = 5+. And for the wrecked result it says 5+ cover right there in the rule itself. No ambiguity whatsoever.