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What fundemental shifts could realistically occur that would lead to the revival of the IoM?

Everyone figures out that the Emperor wasn't actually hurt form Horus at all, and is just suffering from Syphilis and Dehydration. Using ancient techno-arcana the Void Dragon (one who gave it to him) wipes up a nice batch of Penicillin and cures them both. They than unite all of the races under Bronies and live happily ever after. Brings a tear to my eye.

I guess we missed out on that whole "realistic" caveat?

Sarcasm appreciated however.

 Shlazaor wrote:
I guess we missed out on that whole "realistic" caveat?

Sarcasm appreciated however.

In reality though, many things could happen. Any number of lost technologies could be rediscovered and turn the tide in their favor. Any number of the "missing" Primarchs could come back and usher in a new Era. They could figure out that the Tyranids are indeed running away from something, humans from a different galaxy! Old Ones could come back and help them to defeat everything in the Galaxy. Really the skies thelimit.

All those are absolutely true and technically realistic but I was more interested in sparking discussion on slightly less deus ex machina options for revival. What do people think about the possibility of the IoM beginning to work more closely with the Tau Empire or are they far too xenophobic for that ever to become a wider strategic policy? Is some moderate level of reform within the IoM realistic and if so what do people think could spark such a reform?

You would need to overthrow the High Lords of Terra, take the technological monopoly away from the Adeptus Mechanicus, dismantle the Ecclesiarchy, end worship of the Emperor, and reintroduce the Imperial Truth.

So yeah, not very likely....

Reform would have to come directly from the lords of terra... even then it would be resisted at first by any number of the institutions below it but eventually they would submit

 Shlazaor wrote:
All those are absolutely true and technically realistic but I was more interested in sparking discussion on slightly less deus ex machina options for revival. What do people think about the possibility of the IoM beginning to work more closely with the Tau Empire or are they far too xenophobic for that ever to become a wider strategic policy? Is some moderate level of reform within the IoM realistic and if so what do people think could spark such a reform?

I don't think the IoM is going to ally with Xeno scum anytime soon. Nor do many Xenos want to help them. Tau and Eldar are both too worried that they would be back stabbed, and even if the IoM had no interest inback stabbing them and didn't....the Xenos would back stab first claiming a "preemptive strike".

You may be able to point towards an Astartes revolt, where they feel the High Lords have now turned against what the IoM stands for, and declare civil war. I don't know if they could even win that battle though, nor if they would have the balls to attempt it.

The machine cult would need to reform. If they began understanding technology rather than revering it, they could innovate and invent, rather than recover.

Tau are still willing to negotiate unlike the Eldar though.

Realistically, someone finally invents something extremely cool and helpful military-wise and kicks butt. Like mass-producing space marines or recruiting and training an entire planet's population of conscripts to become Veterans through programming-fu.

Okay, so first and foremost this won't happen. The Imperium is dead.

The Imperium focuses less on punishing and oppressing its citizens. This means more spare resources, and less rebellions/revolts.

The Mechanicum randomly decides that progress isn't bad any more, and starts making new stuff.

Now, the 13th Black Crusade is stopped at Cadia. Facing sabotage from the Alpha Legion, which turns out to be secretly loyal, combined with a united Eldar/Imperium force, the Black Legion is beaten back.

Hive Fleet Leviathan and the Octavius Empire Orks weaken each other enough so that they can be slaughtered by the Imperium.

Ghrazghull's next big Waaagh! encounters the Silent King. Both the Orks and the Necrons completely destroy each other.

Now stabilized, the Imperium is able to consolidate its territory and properly secure its borders.

In all honesty? Not much. The whole 'hopelessness' thing and the sense of teetering on the edge of total collapse is such an integral part of the setting that it's not likely to change. The Imperium will endure, as it always has, but whether anything's going to get 'better' for the galaxy as a whole is kind of a foregone 'no'.

 Shlazaor wrote:
What fundemental shifts could realistically occur that would lead to the revival of the IoM?

Really an easy one here. The Machine Cult is dismantled as people realize that technology isn't magic and engineering is "reborn"

 Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
All those are absolutely true and technically realistic but I was more interested in sparking discussion on slightly less deus ex machina options for revival. What do people think about the possibility of the IoM beginning to work more closely with the Tau Empire or are they far too xenophobic for that ever to become a wider strategic policy? Is some moderate level of reform within the IoM realistic and if so what do people think could spark such a reform?

I don't think the IoM is going to ally with Xeno scum anytime soon. Nor do many Xenos want to help them. Tau and Eldar are both too worried that they would be back stabbed, and even if the IoM had no interest inback stabbing them and didn't....the Xenos would back stab first claiming a "preemptive strike".

You may be able to point towards an Astartes revolt, where they feel the High Lords have now turned against what the IoM stands for, and declare civil war. I don't know if they could even win that battle though, nor if they would have the balls to attempt it.

I wonder if there is a certain point that the IoM could degrade to (in conjunction with a rise in the Tau Empire) that could see some sort of broader cooperation. Personally, I see the Tau just starting to mass convert IoM planets into their empire as more and more people lose faith in the failing IoM. The idea of Astartes reform is a very interesting one. I wonder if the reform brought about by an Astarte victory would outweigh the damage done by a civil war?

 Shlazaor wrote:
What fundemental shifts could realistically occur that would lead to the revival of the IoM?

Just have some worlds successfully reinvent the scientific method. One hundred years later and they are running the place...

1) The discovery of a fully intact STC machine.

2) The Emperor's reincarnation as the Star Child OR his rebirth into physical form.

3) The return of one or more of the missing loyalist primarchs.

 Shrike325 wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
What fundemental shifts could realistically occur that would lead to the revival of the IoM?

Really an easy one here. The Machine Cult is dismantled as people realize that technology isn't magic and engineering is "reborn"

I wonder what would have to happen to cause that tho...

A half decent mechanic? A monk studying plants? Orkimedes?

 Frazzled wrote:
Orkimedes?

Brilliant.

Nothing.

The current course of the IoM was pre-ordained by plans set in place by the Emperor. Only through hardship can the IoM truly shine in the galaxy and only through continued conflict and hardship will the IoM be prevented from following in the footsteps of the Eldar race.

Realistically, The Fall of one of the orders where internal conflicts cause it to collapse.

I do not think you can save it. The Admech needs to be disbanded and utterly removed, The Big E needs to die and be removed, the Lords of terra need removed, the hooky religion needs removed. The IoM could not really survive any of this really.

You are talking about placing a band aid on someone with a five times lethal radiation dose. Its far to late for anything to save it.

 Shlazaor wrote:
What fundemental shifts could realistically occur that would lead to the revival of the IoM?

* Abbaddon would have to be defeated and the black legion broken up.
* A primarch would have to return to rally the Imperium.
* The remaining Necrom tomb worlds would have to be destroyed before they awoke.
* One or more fully functional STC would need to be found.

If the Tau Empire and its Alien Auxilaries could, somehow, staunch Tyranid invasions from the galactic east all by themselves, somehow. Very unlikely.

In fact, the Tau seem to be more kin to the Eldar way of thinking; If something big and nasty his heading towards another something that's big and nasty, Move out of the way!

 Harriticus wrote:
You would need to overthrow the High Lords of Terra, take the technological monopoly away from the Adeptus Mechanicus, dismantle the Ecclesiarchy, end worship of the Emperor, and reintroduce the Imperial Truth.

So yeah, not very likely....

The imperial truth was a lie. The Emperor introduced it in a failed attempt to rob chaos of it's power by changing human nature. It would not work anymore because from M31 to M40 chaos has established too much of a foothold across the entire empirium.

Now, I know a lot of people like to use the cheap cop out that the chaos gods and daemons are simply powerful xenos breeds, but that is just silly. The chaos god's are primordial, metaphysical, eternal beings. They are based on the lovecraftian tradition, they encompass the incomprehensible horrors of the universe that mankind's sanity cannot handle.

I think one option could be microreforms taking place in the fashion of the Ultramarines miniature empire. Essentially turn the Lords of Terra obsolete, not by disbanding them, but by making their leadership obsolete. Of course the potential for them to see their power being usurped might cause some power struggle wherein they use their overwhelming resources to bring factions like the Ultramarines back in line.

 Shlazaor wrote:
I think one option could be microreforms taking place in the fashion of the Ultramarines miniature empire. Essentially turn the Lords of Terra obsolete, not by disbanding them, but by making their leadership obsolete. Of course the potential for them to see their power being usurped might cause some power struggle wherein they use their overwhelming resources to bring factions like the Ultramarines back in line.

Why does everyone want to save the Imperium by destroying it?

"The best way to make progess is have a galactic empire without any form of a ruling body"

The Lords of Terra were put in place by the Emperor because SOMEONE needed to govern the Imperium and the Primarchs werent going to do it and the Emperor was busy fighting the Chaos Gods.



Now Reforming the Lords of Terra is onething. Picking different people to be in the seats, works just fine.



Also I would like to add that the belief that the Emperor is a god isnt actually destroying the Imperium. If it was the SMs would have stepped in a long time ago to prevent it. Its just not what the Emperor wanted.



The most important thing to help the Imperium is figuring out how to get science and innovation to become accepted again.