Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello, new user got directed here by the "leader" of the little group i play with (or am trying to, still very new).

I have been looking for awhile about how to piece together a group of ork boyz, and literally everyone goes Shootas + Big Shootas or Rokkit Launchas.
My question is, is it a stupid idea to go slugga/choppa with a Nob+klaw? Normally i would just throw it together and try it but as i look in the codex, with the exception of the Nob the only upgrade weapons they can use are Shootas, Big Shootas, or Rokkit Launchas.

If i were to put together a group meant to get in the enemy's face and chop things, would i be best to slap in a big shoota/rokkit or just avoid the upgrade? Find it weird they wont even let me upgrade to big choppa.

Big Choppa needs big ork to match... only nobs. Also its not stupid... Gw just took a big dump on combat so most people are making shooty armies instead of stompy armies.... if you were just chopping i would stil put big shootas in there in order to mabye cause some extra damage, Nob+klaw is still a great combo and i wont give it up.... ever

Shootas can still melee right? just not as strong as with a choppa?

No i dont think so... they dont have a close combat weapon.... Ive never really dealt with a unit that didnt have CC weapons so i wouldnt know but it would make sense that they wouldnt because then what would be the point of taking Sluggas?

They lose 1 attack in combat. Worth it in my opinion in this edition.

Give us some info on what you play against.
Shootas get 2 attacks (+1 with charge) in CC, while Slugga / Choppa boyz get 4, +1 for the charge and +1 for 2 CC weapons.
Putting together a 30 boyz mob to get into CC is difficult, requiring a lot of foot slogging. Hardest part is getting into combat in a decent number of turns without losing half your boyz. I wouldn't add Big Shootas or Rokkits because you cant shoot them and run. If I were you I'd proxy in some Truks and run 4 of those with 11 boyz + Nob w/ Power Klaw. Or use a Battlewagon with 19 boyz + Nob w/ Power Klaw. You'll still get shot up on the way in, but it beats walking. A Big Mek with Kustom Force Field helps as well. Put him in a battlewagon and the 6 inch range gets a boost because you measure from the hull of the Battlewagon.

@GubbinsGob

If thats their melee cut youre talking about, definitely worth it. I dont HAVE to charge with every unit, since base limitations would prevent it anyway, so having a couple bigger range guns would be nice.

Thanks guys.

EDIT: Guy above me:

Mostly playing against blood angel marine masses, it depends on what my friends plan to do size-wise. Typically they do 800pts i think, which is either masses of marines or bigger Tyranids (depends on the player).
I am pretty lousy at this game still, im just trying to figure the basics out before i try to micromanage my unit compositions to counter specific things.
Im intending to use Trukks to get the choppy boyz in range, so its not full groups of 30 (and yes i got bosspoles i know that bit atleast lol). I only got 2 trukks atm, intend to get 1-2 more probably (trying to avoid making a massive army till i learn the game more).

Firstly, yes, shootas can engage in close combat. An ork boy (regardless of how he's armed) comes with 2A, which is more than most models in the game. Yes, a slugga boy is going to be better in close combat, but that doesn't make the shoota boy worthless (I'd also note that sluggas still have pistols, so aren't worthless in shooting either).

As for sluggas v. shootas in general, yeah, 6th ed went way, way, WAY in the direction of shooting compared to assault. As such, shoota boyz are now stronger than sluggas. Does that mean that sluggas are never worth taking? No.

It does, however, mean that the old 5th ed way of taking them is, though. You can no longer rely on a green tide of 100+ sluggas charging across the field and making it into close combat and beating face. A few trukks or battlewagons full of sluggas, in a well-balanced list, can still do fine over all.

Don't know how much I'd bother with shooting upgrades, especially if you have a klaw nob, though. Better to take a battlewagon with 4x big shootas or rokkits to do the shooting for you.

The basic rule of thumb for boys has always been: of they footsloggin = shootas; if they hitchig a ride in a transport = slugga/choppa.

In the brb it explains that pistols grant +1 attack in close combat(slugga=pistol) that's what makes them stronger.

Don't try and balance any units, make a single unit kick ass in one aspect(shooting OR CC) and you should do fine. Sooo, if you've got a sluggachoppa unit, do not take any upgrades on the boyz, but a nob is a must! BC or PK is upfor big debate ATM so go with whatever suites your mood.
If your running shoota boyz, nob might now be so important, and the bigshootaz upgrade are definately worth it! I usually always take at least one or 2 big shootas per shoota unit(usually give the big shoota to my nob[yes you van do that ]).

If your just starting your army, lootas are always fun definately worth taking! Don't give a rokkit launch to a boy in a boyz squad, wasted round of shooting/potential running. And never underestimate the power of boyz in large numbers!

Quite a few times I felt like I was getting my butt handed to me, only to find out that I tied or won O.o
for the time being just remeber orks are about quantity over quality, moar boyz, less upgrades

Squad 1: 30 boys, shootas, 3x big shootas, Nob with power klaw. Kill troops.

Squad 2: 30 boys, shootas, 3x rocket launchas, Nob with power claw. Pop rhino or chimera, kill the troops.

Leave the slugga/choppas at home or put them in a trukk.

And welcome

Yes, welcome

This has been done to death

In trukks go for sluggas, as you will not be firing with them: First turn-flat out; second turn-ok probably shoot but definitely get into cc; subsequent turns-more cc.
In battlewagons: first turn-maybe flat out, maybe 6'' and shoot; second turn-death roll and shoot; third turn- maybe assault the marines or maybe death roll them and then shoot them. Too much shooting, you'll want shootas.
Foot slogging doesn't really work but straight away you'll either run or shoot, if the enemy is in 18'' it is going to be better to shoot rather than let the enemy assault you. Yes, assaulting a big squad of boys is fine, overwatch might kill a marine but the marines will get their own back. Overwatch, is obviously better for shootas, overwatch is slightly overrated I feel.

Overwatch is overrated for a lot of armies. However, Orks are already at BS 2 so going from only hitting on 5+ to hitting on 6's with the BS 1 from Overwatch isn't much of a difference for us. We can still rely on volume of fire to do damage.

For low 800 point games I would definitely try a few 30 man mobz and win through sheer numbers. 120 boyz is 720 points. Throw in a Big Mek with KFF with a nob + PK or two. Use sluggas as a screening unit with the KFF while you move shootas into a nice piece of cover. Each blob of 20+ Boyz is a threat, and will take down Marines easily due to just the sheer number of dice.

I'm still relatively new to the game myself and worrying too much about countering specific units will just make your list weak in another area. Unless they play the exact same list and game type every game just keep playing and learning from mistakes. Mix things up and try new combos and unit compositions. Find what works against their playstyle and use elements of this in your next list with another new trial unit. If you play the same thing over and over, by all means make a list to smash them. If you haven't already, read Sun Tzu's Art of War with an open mind. It really does apply to 40k tactics and mindset.

aint got 120 boyz lol. I got about 70 or so atm, probably the bodies for 15 more but dont have any feet for them. Kinda weird how that happened, i have tons of bases, bodies, arms, and heads but ran out of feet. Wtf? lol.

All i have right now are:
~70 boyz
Warboss with twin-link + big choppa (Technically 2 as i have Ghazgul Thraka for some reason and im not running him as Ghazgul in a low point game)
2 Trukks
6 Bikers (2 with Klaws, 1 with Big Choppa)
3 Deffcoptas (Though one is "orkished" up since half the propellers broke and got lost in shipment, so its made from the sprue it came on lol)

That's a nice little collection to start with @ 800 pts games.

Wish my flgs played smaller games so that I could start collecting my army, bits at a time, but they play 2k games exclusively so to make any conversion I need to drop a crap ton of money just to have a cohesive(spellcheck?) army


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Untill things change for use, don't bother with ghaz, use him as a warboss with mega armor

Tempted to just boost my army with 2 of the ork battlefront boxes. Pretty much everything i want to run is in them and theyre 20-30bucks cheaper than buying that many boyz, more bikes, and another trukk on their own.

I kind of want to buy some dakkajets or something but i know nothing about them. Almost got a battlewagon but unless im running a Nob group (which isnt a bad idea actually...) and have them in it i see little point to one. But that leads towards the more quality over quantity play, and thats not orky!

BWs aren't reserved for Nobz at all! They're pure gold for Meganobz, Burnas and even Shoota Boyz who can shoot out of its open top and even fire overwatch while embarked-So 20 Shootas in a BW aren't bad. And they can get Deff Rollas-That's quite, quite Orky. What annoys me is that you don't get a Deff Rolla in the BW kit-you have to convert, proxy or get a BW upgrade pack.

Yea i said screw it and bought 2 battlefronts and a BW+roller parts. Also some paints since apparently last time i ordered some paints i neglected metal paints lol (black guns look lame).

Thanks for all the help guys.

What I ment by quantity over quality wasn't "stick tithe cheaper units" but rather "take only necessary upgrades" unless an upgrade is needed don't take it.

Grot artillery. Lobbas, speciifically. T7, BS3 artillery.

I also find runtherds to be great fun, running ahead as cover for your footslogging shootas. The poison attack on the grot prod is pretty sweet against big bugs as well.

I recommend running nobz, though running a small group of meganobz in a battlewagon with deffrolla, equipped with kombi burnaz is pretty sweet and reliable.

And remember, you can never have enough lootas. Toss a war boss in mega armour in with them and they get relentless as a special rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the record, I have wiped out a charging squad of thunder cav with a unit of overwatching shootas. I know that odds are it wouldn't likely happen that I kill them all like that again, but man, it was satisfying to see the look on the face of that wolves player when he failed those saves.

Basically now though, the PK nob is going the way of the dodo bird. He is far to easy to be challenge baited. So he is either dying to easy, or your turning down the challenge, making him useless in the assault.

But what Ive been doing is instead, giving the nob the Bigshoota, that way his 6s to hit are precision shots, and its a pretty cheap upgrade, so baited or not, its not a loss to the squad. Hell some people are just leaving the Nob out, which I dont think Im ready to do, and my group doesnt use the challenge rules (because we think its just very very stupid) But even still, Ive been rolling my army like if we did, so if I play at a FLGS or a tourny somewhere, I wont have to totally change how I play

Wait, big shootas get Precision shots? Is that nob only or period? I never knew that and i just played a 750pt game where i wish i did know that. Damn tesla necron was ticking me off.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Wait, big shootas get Precision shots? Is that nob only or period? I never knew that and i just played a 750pt game where i wish i did know that. Damn tesla necron was ticking me off.

No, only Characters and models with Snipers can make precision shots. If you have a Character with a Big Shoota, you can precision shoot with it.

KingCracker wrote:Basically now though, the PK nob is going the way of the dodo bird. He is far to easy to be challenge baited. So he is either dying to easy, or your turning down the challenge, making him useless in the assault.

So, I've been thinking about this more, and the more I think the more I'm thinking the CC nob can still make it with a big choppa.

I mean, he's still WS4, still wounds everybody on 2's with S6, still W2, and for pennies can take a 4+ armor save. At 3 or 4 attacks. At initiative. I think that this is the new challenge champion for orks. Yes, he doesn't ignore armor saves, but he goes BEFORE initiative 1. On the charge, you've got a pretty decent chance at making even a marine fail a single armor save before they get a chance to swing. Basically, you're using the problem of klaws being I1 to your advantage. Meanwhile, against things like power swords or other fast, choppy weapons, you've got WS4, T4, W2 to hide behind.

Yeah, he's not going to take down any beatstick HQs by himself, but anything up to this level, the BC nob is probably going to eat for breakfast, and that's an awful lot of stuff. Plus, if you can manage to take one of said beatstick characters and whittle him down to a single wound some other way, the nob is probably going to be good for finishing it off. For such a low, low price, I'd think it would be worth it.

Plus, an ork nob modelled like this:



Will always look cooler than one modeled like this:



Regardless of how much better the paint job is.

I have to agree, picture quality wise the latter is more appealing but still looks like a boy with a few trophies :/

I may be wrong but i thought there was a handy way of stopping the opponent challenging your nob in the first round of combat? I thought if you charge and keep him out of the 3 inch area he cannot be challenged, then when its your intiative you can move him in? Or has that been changed?

ATO

Im a big fan of the bigchoppa anyways. Not to mention its just badass looking

Alltheones wrote:I may be wrong but i thought there was a handy way of stopping the opponent challenging your nob in the first round of combat? I thought if you charge and keep him out of the 3 inch area he cannot be challenged, then when its your intiative you can move him in?

Nope.

If you take the reading of a vague and somewhat contradictory rule that a model can not be challenged or issue a challenge if it is not engaged at the start of the fight phase, then you must take the standpoint that nobody can ever challenge each other ever, as no model is ever engaged at the start of the fight phase, regardless of how close it is to opponent's models.

Taking a BC pretty much gears a Nob towards Challenges, while the PK is good for actually killing well armored stuff. Guess it's a matter of taste. Personally, I love how the BC looks and how much it costs, and I hate the fact it's AP-. I just can't make it work with all the power and terminator armor floating around. If CSM Chainaxes are AP4, Big Choppas should be AP4 too, maybe even AP3! Hope this gets corrected when the Orks get an update.

The nob avoiding challenges is up for HUGE debate right now in the community, my FLGS plays it where if he's not in range to swing he can't accept/declare challenge. While Ailaros feels so strongly against it he's tried to derail 2 threads with it already!(I'm just kidding ailaros)

But yea I'd check with your FLGS or group and see how your friends/opponents feel about it BEFORE the game.