Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So my friends and I were talking about the new Chaos codex last night and we got to the subject of Special Characters. The general consensus was that the Chaos Marinesdon't really NEED new characters (their HQ section is too big as it is), but we had fun with the topic. So here its in a nutshell -

If you could pick one character from the entire 40K Universe and turn him into a Chaos Space Marine special character (with a model and playable rules of course) who would it be and why? If you could remove or change one existing SC who would it be and why?

Please note this is not really about the new Codex and more intended for the fun of it.

Personally, I would love to see Honsu of the Iron Warriors get a model. The Iron Warriors don't even really interest me that much, but he is just such a classic villain that I think he deserves a slot. I would make him an HQ choice and maybe have an option for the "Newborn" character from the IW Omnibus and "The Chapters Due" books to be his bodygaurd. It could even be just a "counts as" combat familiar. I would also maybe give him a special rule that allows you more Heavy Support slots.

The character I would change would be Lucious (SP?). Don't get me wrong, I think he's a really cool character, but I don't feel like he's appropriate as an actual HQ choice. From reading about him in the books and even just from reading his codex entry, I feel like he would be more concerned with proving his martial prowess more than he would be concerned with actually leading troops. So in light of that, I would make him an Elites choice and give him back Eternal Warrior. I would also make a rule along the lines of him not counting against your Elites quota if led by a Lord with the mark of Slaanesh. So for me, in his case it's not about making him more effective but rather making him fit better with his fluff.

So that's my answers. What does everybody else think?

M'kar. While his character is supposed to be ridiculously powerful, the changes to DPs, if applied to him, would probably make him reasonable on the field.

I agree with OP. Warmaster Honsou would be a kickass SC.

I'd move Huron to Codex: Space Marines and have him modify the army list therein to be more appropriate to post-heresy Renegades.


As for characters that I'd add, I'd love to see one of the Night Lords characters (Sahaal or Talos), or an Iron Warriors Warsmith of some sort (not warPsmith)

I would Add Sgt Sarik from the Savage Scars book, and remove Lysander.

Commander Farsight

Cypher was ultra cool and would tie in well with the Dark Angels being the foe in the boxed set.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I'd move Huron to Codex: Space Marines and have him modify the army list therein to be more appropriate to post-heresy Renegades.


As for characters that I'd add, I'd love to see one of the Night Lords characters (Sahaal or Talos), or an Iron Warriors Warsmith of some sort (not warPsmith)

Huron turned the Red Corsairs to Chaos after the Badab War, it wouldn't really make sense, but nor does the lack of new equipment to any of the Chaos Space Marines. Otherwise you can use the Tyrant's Legion list from Forge World, which works quite well for the post heresy renegades.

I'd like to Cypher, Doomrider, some form of tactical Chaos Lieutenant who didn't focus too much on fighting, but had an effect on special rules and such.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I'd move Huron to Codex: Space Marines and have him modify the army list therein to be more appropriate to post-heresy Renegades.


As for characters that I'd add, I'd love to see one of the Night Lords characters (Sahaal or Talos), or an Iron Warriors Warsmith of some sort (not warPsmith)

Huron turned the Red Corsairs to Chaos after the Badab War, it wouldn't really make sense, but nor does the lack of new equipment to any of the Chaos Space Marines. Otherwise you can use the Tyrant's Legion list from Forge World, which works quite well for the post heresy renegades.

The Tyrant's Legion list really is more of an integrated IG/SM list, while Huron's forces in the CSM codex is odd as his forces would still be much more reminiscent of Codex marine forces in terms of organization and equipment than Legion forces. For instance, Huron's forces really shouldn't be toting around Reaper Autocannons and Havoc Launchers or fielding Defilers, but should have Assault Cannons and Land Speeders and the like. Hence why I feel he'd fit better in C:SM as a list-modifying character.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I'd move Huron to Codex: Space Marines and have him modify the army list therein to be more appropriate to post-heresy Renegades.


As for characters that I'd add, I'd love to see one of the Night Lords characters (Sahaal or Talos), or an Iron Warriors Warsmith of some sort (not warPsmith)

Huron turned the Red Corsairs to Chaos after the Badab War, it wouldn't really make sense, but nor does the lack of new equipment to any of the Chaos Space Marines. Otherwise you can use the Tyrant's Legion list from Forge World, which works quite well for the post heresy renegades.

The Tyrant's Legion list really is more of an integrated IG/SM list, while Huron's forces in the CSM codex is odd as his forces would still be much more reminiscent of Codex marine forces in terms of organization and equipment than Legion forces. For instance, Huron's forces really shouldn't be toting around Reaper Autocannons and Havoc Launchers or fielding Defilers, but should have Assault Cannons and Land Speeders and the like. Hence why I feel he'd fit better in C:SM as a list-modifying character.

You don't necessarily need to use Defilers, and Reaper Auto-Cannons are only available to Terminators, as well as Havoc launchers being represented as simple modification to vehicles since a departure from the Imperials. Adding Huron to Codex: Space Marine's would be incredibly awkward, due to the fact he's a full fledged traitor, and is in league with the powers of Chaos. The Chaos List is far from perfect (Razor Backs and Land Speeders would and should be available) and again, Huron is an awkward character due to his nature as a renegade. The Tyrants Legion doesn't require you to use the guard/human section.

I'd put DOOOOOOOOMRIDER back in.

M'kar. While his character is supposed to be ridiculously powerful, the changes to DPs, if applied to him, would probably make him reasonable on the field.

That would be a cool one too! I could see two versions of him similar to what the BA codex did with Tycho. You could have one version where he's a true "Demon Prince" and a second where he's been entombed in the dreadnaught body.

I also like the idea of bringing back Cypher. He's another one where I could almost see two versions of him. One version in the Chaos codex and another version in the loyalist ... but then that might make him Alpharius ... holy crap. I just blew my own mind ... lol

I'd get rid of Typhus (blaaaaand) and replace him with a Nurgly Daemon Prince. The Codex needs a Daemon Prince special character. Also, I'd move Huron (if I could) to a Renegades Codex and change the existing Codex to Codex: Traitor Legionnaires. Then, in the place of Huron, there should be Krieg Acerbus or some sort of Iron Warriors Warsmith. Maybe Erebus should have a character.

I'd like Doombreed so we could finally get a Daemon Prince special character.

Ahh, so many choices.

I'd bring Captain Cortez from the crimson fist back with his spiffy model.
Also had my vote to Honsou.

Either Sindri or Eliphas would be both awsome choices.

I'd also had Gabriel Angelos, both as a captain and chapter master version of the character.

Honsou and Alpharius. Honsou could grant Ignore Cover or some such and Alpharius could grant Inflitrate and turn a random SM into a CC CSM and clean house inside the squad.

Talos of the Night Lords (he's awesome and we don't really have anyone like him in the dex). I'd also add Marduk of the WB, again, I'm a little surprised he's not already included.

 DeffDred wrote:
Commander Farsight

But Farsight is found in the Tau codex and he said Chaos....

I see what you did there.

Erebus surely? He masterminded the whole god damned heresy, he's the orginal Dark Apostle and would make a perfect special character version of Chaos marines newest character. I'd say Kor Phaeron for the same reason but he's a filthy half breed not a true Astartes so Erebus trumps him in terms of evil mastermind.

Lobukia wrote:Talos of the Night Lords (he's awesome and we don't really have anyone like him in the dex). I'd also add Marduk of the WB, again, I'm a little surprised he's not already included.

Decimus could be a good character though. That was a legit Night Lord. Or Lucoryphus, just because there needs to be a Raptor character and he's an extremely badass Raptor.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would Add Sgt Sarik from the Savage Scars book, and remove Lysander.

He said Chaos Marine, not loyalist.

I'd like to add in Honsou. I'd like to have a Warsmith (no p in this case!) special character who could change Iron Warrior army compositions. Also a Warpsmith/Warsmith who was decent in hand to hand would be lovely.

If I were to remove one it would probably be Lucius. His model doesn't appeal to me and his rules don't excite me. He doesn't do much to change your army (no more than a Slaanesh lord would) but I do understand the reasoning behind his presence in the codex.

I agree with Brother SRM. Lucius should be replaced with Doomrider. Much more unique and much more interesting.

Have Doomrider kill Lucius It will be glorious. Then we will have DOOOOOMLUCIUS!

Grey Templar wrote:Have Doomrider kill Lucius It will be glorious. Then we will have DOOOOOMLUCIUS!

feth yeah. Then we could keep both.

Slaanesh would have to choose a favored Champion, she wouldn't want to pick one over the other, so she'd have them both share a body.

Doomrider's motorcycle would be covered in the screaming faces of those Lucius slain in the past. He'd use the Lash of Submission as a whip, to spur his motorcycle on. And he'd wield a saber like Lucius.

blood reaper wrote:
You don't necessarily need to use Defilers, and Reaper Auto-Cannons are only available to Terminators, as well as Havoc launchers being represented as simple modification to vehicles since a departure from the Imperials. Adding Huron to Codex: Space Marine's would be incredibly awkward, due to the fact he's a full fledged traitor, and is in league with the powers of Chaos. The Chaos List is far from perfect (Razor Backs and Land Speeders would and should be available) and again, Huron is an awkward character due to his nature as a renegade. The Tyrants Legion doesn't require you to use the guard/human section.

Just because he's a Traitor doesn't mean that, as a playable force, he wouldn't be more appropriate in C:SM than in C:CSM. Yeah, he's a traitor devoted to Chaos, but his forces on the table really should be practically identical to those in Codex: Space Marines with marks and the like available instead of ATSKNF. Most of the really *Chaosy* units wouldn't really be found in renegade chapter forces like Huron's. Warp Talons, Obliterators, Defilers, Cult units, etc. There's way more stuff in C:CSM that *shouldn't* be in armies like Huron's than should relative to C:SM.

Also, Reaper AC's are now on dreads as well, because Kelly decided for some reason he needed to nerf dreadnought autocannon ranges.

LoneLictor wrote:

Talos is dead. And he was never a skilled fighter. The men under his command (Xarl, Uzas) were better than he was.

We have spoiler tags for a reason. The book is only a few months old and not all of us have had a chance to finish it yet...

For Chaos, I would actually like Argal Tal of the zword Bearers, the Possessed. IIRC he survived the Heresy so why not. Make him a Lord with zpossessed rules, and makes Possessed Troops. Could be fun if not good. Oh, and him and his squad can choose their morphing each turn.

To change, I would say remove Fabius altogether. He kinda sucks and there isn't a reason to have 2 Emperor's Children in one codex.



For Space Marines, I agree, add Gabriel Angelos. Basically a Captain with a GK Daemon Hammer, and maybe a 6" Stubborn bubble to represent his inspiring speeches/presence/whatever.

To change I would say Change Cassius. Surely as master of sanctity and being the oldest of his Chapter he would be more useful inside passing on wisdom than fighting. And, he's a codex deviant Smurf! Heresy!


For Nids I say add Red Terror as a Ravenor upgrade and dump the Parasite. Mediocre unit, effort to convert, makes mediocre models and dies to a stiff breeze for the cost of a Carnfiex or Harpy.


And for Grey Knights, drop Grand Master Mordrak as he has mediocre rules. He allows a unit of Termies with stealth to Deep Strike turn 1, and then he is a Grand Master.

Add in some sort of Paladin upgrade character, like a Justicar, call him Master of the Paladins. He makes his squad Stubborn. WS 6 and Ld 10.

 Deadshot wrote:

Add in some sort of Paladin upgrade character, like a Justicar, call him Master of the Paladins. He makes his squad Stubborn. WS 6 and Ld 10.

Coz Paladins need to get better...

But for me it's gotta be bring back Cypher and Doomrider. Make Fabius Bile more apothecary like, give DPs eternal warrior and just generally improve all the mediocre SCs that Chaos now has. I will never understand how Phil Kelly does it... he takes a good basis for a codex but makes it all kinds of grey at the same time... how does he do it?

This is related to a thread I posted in Proposed rules so here ya go:

Honsou (Iron Warriors)

WS:6 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:5 A:3 Ld:10 Sv: 2+

Special Rules:
Independent Character
I am ME: Honsou does not let himself be limited by what others say of him or swayed by the ever luring voices of Chaos. As such, he pushes himself to be the greatest that he can be under his own power without the assistance of that such as the Dark Gods. Honsou and any one unit in the army of the player's choosing benefits from the Stubborn and Relentless universal special rules. Furthermore, he cannot role on the Chaos Boon table,
Eternal Hatred: Honsou has a rather unpleasant history with the Ultramarines. An army that includes Honsou gains Preferred Enemy: Space Marines (Or that warlord trait that does the same thing).
He just won't die!: Honsou has encountered death many a time only to evade it through luck, skill, cunning, or a combination of all three. Honsou benefits from the Eternal Warrior special rule.

Wargear:
Power Axe
Arm of Metal: Honsou has a bionic arm of living metal. This counts as a close combat weapon with the following profile:
S: x2 AP:3 Type: Melee, ArmorBane
Artificer Armor
Plasma Pistol
Frag and Krak grenades



Roek Ghulclaw (Alpha Legion)

WS:6 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:5 A:3 Ld:10 Sv:3+

Special Rules:
Infiltrate
Independent Character
Fearless
Hit and Run
Infiltrate, Destabilize, Subvert: Roek Ghulclaw is a master of infiltrating and subverting his enemies and this talent is well reflected in the warband he leads. An army that includes Roek Ghulclaw can purchase the Universal special rule infiltrate for up to 3 Troop choices at 20 points per unit. Furthermore, when Roek Ghulclaw charges into combat or is charged, roll a D6. This roll takes place after it has been determined whether or not the charge was successful, but before models are moved. On a result of a 6, one of the opponent's models in the unit is revealed to be in league with the Alpha Legion. Randomly select a non-character model from the enemy unit, and it immediately joins Roek Ghulclaw's unit, retaining all of it's equipment and abilities. Move this model so that it is in base contact with an enemy model and within unit coherency with Roek Ghulclaws unit. If this is not possible for whatever reason, remove the model from the board, as the enemy figured out that the model was a spy and had them executed. Additionally, this model does not get a +1 attack for charging, even if Roek Ghulclaw's unit or the enemy unit normally would.

Wargear:
Blade of the Hydra: An ancient relic that is rumored to have come from the Dark Ages of Man and once belonged to Alpharius. It appears to be no more than a simple power sword but was crafted with technology now lost to man which makes it a far more superior blade than many the Imperium can create. The Blade of the Hydra is a power sword that benefits from the Rending USR.
CombiMelta
Bolt Pistol
Frag and Krak grenades
Power Armor

Warlord Trait: Master of Deception


Tarraq Darkblood (Night Lords)

WS:7 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:5 A:3 Ld:10 Sv:3+

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Fearless
Hit and Run
Terror Renown: Tarraq is one of the most vicious killers within the Night Lords and the Galaxy knows this all too well. Tarraq benefits from the Universal Rule Fear and hits opponents with weapon skills less than his own on a 2+.
Dodge: Tarraq is as agile as he is murderous and as such can easily evade the blows of his opponents. Tarraq benefits from a 4+ Invulnerable save in close combat

Wargear:
Jump Pack
Claws of Trepidation: A pair of Lightning Claws with inbuilt flamers.
Power Armor
Frag and Krak Grenades

Marduk (Word Bearers)

WS:6 BS:5 S:4 T:5 W:3 I:6 A:4 Ld:10 Sv:2+/4++

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Favored by Chaos: Marduk has obtained much in the way of approval by the Dark Gods and as such benefits from all their blessings (already included in profile).
Daemon's at his beck: Marduk is a talented summoner who can easily bring daemons into the material plane without sacrifices when and where he wants them. If allied with Daemons, Marduk allows Daemons to reroll their reserve rolls (including successful ones) and the Daemons must use Marduk's ballistic when deepstriking for scattering purposes.
Stubborn

Wargear:
Terminator Armor
Sigil of Corruption
Accursed Crozius: A power maul
Borhg'ash: A daemon weapon which inflicts an additional attack for every successful wound Marduk lands upon his opponents.
S: User AP:3 Type: Melee


I'm terrible at coming up with point costs so if dakkadakka would be so kind to assist...

C&C welcome


Oh, and I'd kick out Huron. Pronto.