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Hey all!
So, I'm looking to try something a little different than the Orks and Salamanders Space Marines I've been playing with for over 3 or 4 years.

There are three potential candidates I have in mind: Dark Eldar, Necrons and Chaos Daemons.
I really feel like these three have a lot of character, which is great, and they also have almost completely released model ranges to select the possible army from.

I was leaning towards starting with a Battle Force and then an HQ and possibly one other unit, whichever army I decide on.

So, what I'm looking for is suggestions on which HQ's plus one other unit would be the greatest benefit to getting one of these armies started, and also feedback on Pro's and Con's from existing players from the respective forces.

Id appreciate the info, as I'm having a heck of a time narrowing down between the three.
For what it's worth, I was liking the idea of using Zahndrekh and Obyron for Necrons, and Lelith for DE, but am not so sure on Daemons.
I'm not really into spamming 7 of the same unit either, so if we could keep away from that (whether or not it would allow me to win every match or not) that'd be awesome!

Thanks!
T-

I don't know Necrons well; but I'd advise against starting Daemons, they're unforgiving and very die-roll-reliant in the current rules, not to mention having no way to counter flyers. Dark Eldar, however, operate very differently from either Orks or Salamanders in that they're all about running the enemy ragged and then shooting them while they're still turning 'round; as far as getting started goes, the Battleforce is a decent starting point, but you really need a second Raider after that to put the other Troops unit in since Dark Eldar don't do well on foot; HQ-wise, Lelith is always good, but I'd advise getting a generic HQ for small games first, since she's kind of expensive. After that I'd advise looking into a Razorwing; it's a beautiful model, one of the best-designed vehicle kits I've bought from GW, and is an unholy terror in terms of massacring infantry while sticking with the Dark Eldar theme of outmaneuvering everyone.

Looking at the Necron Codex (I've never played the army, but I have a point of having copies of all the Codexes on hand for referencing questions like these) I'm thinking you want to look into either more speed or more close-combat prowess after getting a Battleforce and hopefully a generic Overlord for the sake of having a cheap HQ for small games; speed would mean either Destroyers or Tomb Blades, CC would mean Lychguard/Praetorians, most likely.

Daemons have Flying Monstrous Creatures, don't they? I thought those could hit flyers. Anyway, the only army I'm familiar with is Necrons, so here goes!

Necrons are durable and shooty, with a few strong CC units. Although I haven't tried the Necron flyers yet, consensus is that they are very good!

Zahndrekh is a good HQ but I would advise against taking Obyron too, unless he's rolling with Lychguard or some Lords. Even then, it's pretty expensive and slow despite his mantle.

If you end up choosing Necrons and decide to roll with Immortals for troops, you can go either way with their weapon options. I prefer the tesla carbines since we can get gauss in so many places.

Nothing in particular is an auto-include, but Annihilation Barges might be worth running a pair of in most settings. Avoid Flayed Ones unless you love something about them!

Yeah, that's the Daemons way of dealing with them at the moment.

Based on what you said, I'd advise Necrons of those three. A good number of options, great models, good rules and stats.

DE I would pass on now. Several changes to 6th hurt them a bit. They do have great models, but if you want to win beyond a casual level, you'll end up feeling spammy and limited. Lelith suggests to me you'd want to run more Wych heavy, and that just isn't good anymore.

Daemons would pass on for many reasons. Playing very certain ways you can have fun and compete in games, but it is not an army I'd recommend starting at this point to anyone.

Dark eldars are still very much alive, Lelith is an ok HQ, bit overcosted for what she can do, but fun nonetheless. Wych cult assault took the assault nerf quite hard, but if you want to defiantly run wych cult assault army, then you can too, you just gotta understand the limitation of wyches and off you go on your adventure of murders, bloody murders. I personally like the idea of Lelith in a coven list, though lacking in PGL, she can get FC quite easily with a haemy and an unit of wracks/grotesques, with liquifiers, they should be able to deal with the overwatch and/or the main unit having to strike at I1. Buuuut that's a story for another day, DE are still very much alive, competitively speaking, shooting side had been the best in 5th, and better still in 6th, wych cult assault is gonna struggle with even their original tarpit role, but I'm sure a capable player will be able to make it work. Most of DE units are still great, we still have a good selection of deadly assault units despite the nerf, but you do kinda end up either doing raider spam or venom spam, because transports are just mandatory for DE(Also a major factor in why they cost quite a bit to play).

Necrons, well, do I really need to say much? It's the codex everyone hates because it's just allroundedly good! Nemesor and Obyron are a nasty combo, I personally really like that combo, and according to the necron tactica thread, many necron players rate them better or around the level of Imotekh as well. They just offer so much diversity in tactic, want to assault a SW unit? Take away their counterattack and give your own FC! Want to take down tanks? Tankhunter! Expecting assault on an unit? Counterattack! And then there is the Obyron teleport ability that is just plain awesome when Nemesor is around... Army-wise, they can do shooting and assault very well, sure they strike at I2, but they have slightly better or same save as marines, and almost all their assault units have AP2 or rending weapons. Their shooting is also quite interesting, their range is about 24" on average, with only very few weapons going over that, so unlike tau or IG who will probably outshoot the enemies from outside their effective range, necrons fight their gun battle in range of every enemy's guns. In short, all round great army, slow, durable and just "WHY WON'T THEY DIE" for your opponent, with some psyker-isque abilities without the risk of the peril of the warp, but like your plan with DE Lelith, Nemesor+Obyron may be very hard to fit into smaller points games.

Daemons, can't say much, sorry.

Daemons are the 'Surprise - you're dead!' army. You ever see too many Daemon players, either due to the army's very large learning curve (only DE have a comparable learning curve). And/or the fact that people will accuse you of wanting the ultiment cheese because the army did utterly ruin the entirety of 7th edition Fantasy.

However, Daemons, in the hands of a good Daemonic general are utterly brutal for opponents to try and deal with! Some of the main strengths of the army are;
a) Every single model comes with an invulnerable save, Eternal Warrior and causes Fear! Only GK's currently can get around your EW due to their 'daemonbane' rule. You don't give a rat's fart about what's shooting you because you always get a save. Likewise specialist close combat weapons mean a whole lot of diddly-squat.
Since only a select few of your units can ever gain an armour save, (3+ for anyone with the Ironhide gift as well as Bloodcrushers), all those plasma/melta spams you might see are just so many wasted pts!

b) Each God is highly specialised. Khorne units eat MEQ's, while the Flesh Hounds make any GK player cry due to their Blessings of the Blood God gift. (2++ vs psychic powers & force toys!)
Tzeentch can out-shoot ANYONE! (yes, even Tau!) A basic Pink Horror gets 3 shots, while Flamers come with both Warpfire & Breath making them deadly to everything. Heralds of Tzeentch can fill in any ranged holes in your army, while a Tzeentch marked Prince with it's BS5 makes for good anti-armour.
Nurgle is resilient as feth and can hold onto key positions of the battlefield thanks to T5 + FnP. They're also deadly vs any high toughness units since they all come with poisoned attacks.
Slaanesh is squishy yes, but hordes and TEQ's simply explode to a combination of mass attacks & rending. A large unit of Daemonettes for example on the charge, will make any Ork player look on with jealousy at the number of rending dice you get to roll!

This means that your list requires alot of synergy to work well. Mono God armies as a whole don't do so well unless you look at 'counts as'. (ie: perhaps modeling Seekers of Slaanesh as Bloodletters riding Cold Ones in a Khorne themed list).
There are a couple exceptions though - an Epidemius Nurgle army is just plain gross, having the ability to ignore all saves once your Nurgle units have killed 21+ enemies. (Princes w/Breath help and/or allied Nurgle CSM's help enormously!) Meanwhile a mono Tzeentch list is godly in the shooting phase, while Screamers & Tzeentch Princes can tear even TEQ units a new one in assaults! (oh, and large squads of Flamers are pretty much impossible to assault with units of only 20 or fewer models since they all have a template weapon for that 'Wall of Death' overwatch!)

c) Everything Deep Strikes. Alot of people would say this is stupid and a huge disadvantage. They would be very, very wrong!
Being a daemonic general, you effectively get to always decide where the battle will play out. Your opponent is very limited in how they can deploy to defend against you. If they castle-up for example to stop you dropping Flamers on their key units, well, they've just given up free riegn of the battlefield to you! If they try and spread out a bit, you can overload on a flank or isolate a part of their battleline with superior numbers.
Daemons are the true masters of the Alpha Strike, even moreso than Dark Eldar!

d) Hardly anyone plays Daemons! Thus, most opponents will have very little idea of how to play against you.

e) Rumors strongly hint at Daemons getting a new new codex early on in the new year!!! So, more evil toys to play with, re-pointing of our currently over-costed Troops and of corse, new model kits to drool over!

Wow! You guys are presenting awesome points, but making it even harder to decide hahaha!

Thanks for the replies so far, keep the info coming!
-T

I vote daemons because you can also play fantasy with them as well. I had dark eldar till last Friday. They are fun but wasn't a style I liked

The fact that they are getting a new Codex is not necessarily a plus. This leaves everything you buy really open to nerfs/buffs or better units coming along.

Just because the codex isn't top-tier now doesn't mean they won't change some units for the worse still. Lots of examples of this.

That's true, just because Necrons are high on the list now, doesn't mean they couldnt get 4th-edition-Chaos'd next time.
I'm not necessarily looking to run something at any Tourneys, mostly friendly play, but winning is still nice lol.

What else ya got? Haha
T-

I was more referring to Daemons there, as they should get a codex sometime within the next year. A good idea since you're starting a new army from scratch, consider building to use allies. Maybe some new CSM + Daemons?

Really though, if you don't care much about tourny play, I'd just take whichever models or fluff you like. Any will be fine for friendly play.. Though I'd still rank them gameplay-wise (without use of allies) Necrons > DE > Daemons.

Necrons are allies of convenience with your Orks, so maybe that sways you a little if you want to ally them and still be able to play well at 2k points or something.

What kinda orks and salamanders do you run? May be pick the army that can play the most different from the two you already played?

I picked necrons as my 2nd because I can play them opposite to my DE: Slow, tough, and footslogging... Though I did end up including the wonderful annihilation barge(at that price, and being able to avoid finecast for my HQ... How could I resist??), and possibly some FA to make up for the lack of speed... Turns out I'm not a very creative person!

My Salamanders are pretty utilitarian (lots of Tactical and mostly Shooty elements, no melee-specific units). Orks are actually similarly built, lots of Shootas, Lootas, Dakkajets, but are at the core melee because, well, they're ORKS! Haha

So, I'm not opposed to shooting elements, especially the kinds of shooting that DE and Necron can put out! Especially 'crons, who doesn't like a "house" that shoots? Haha

The amount of poisoned shots DE can pour out are pretty exciting too!

It seems like Dark Eldar can field a lot of diversity. Kabals, Cults and Covens, or a mix of two or all three! Necrons can field lots of crazy units too, infantry, jetbikers, crazy pseudo-Matrix squid-Wraiths lol

I like both army's Flyers too, the Razorwing and the Doomscythe are both pretty heavy duty, and the Nightscythe has some definite perks too.

What would you guys say would be a good move as far as the "Battle Force plus" idea goes? Starting with a Battle Force plus an HQ and maybe one other unit to get the prospective army going.

Thanks, keep the ideas coming!
T-

I vote for Daemons or Dark Eldar. Though I don't know anything about Daemons, I think they look cool.

I run 6 venoms in my 2k DE list and I don't think it's spammy because along with that I have harlequins, wyches and warriors in venoms, raiders, etc. Alternatively I think raiders can be equally effective.

Don't get me wrong I love using my razorwing and that feeling when you kill 20 orks in one turn is amazing but the movement feels like a chore and if I had to move more than 1 flyer I turn I would hate it but that's just me.

Of the three I think necrons have the best battleforce and if you go with them I would take an overlord with a command barge.

For Dark Eldar I think the archon is the HQ choice for 6th. Not only can you use it as a shooty or cc HQ but you can alternatively proxy it as Vect. Along with this I would take a ravager and raiders and venoms to transport those 10 warriors and 10 wyches depending on the amount per group.

Really does depend on how you want to play it.

Both daemon and DE can be either an assault heavy army or a solid firebase.

Crons tend to be alot more towards drowning the enemy in sheer volume of firepower.


Ok, wall o' text time.



Crons:

Assault wise they arent all that great.
They have some decent choices, but 99% lack any real ability to chew through units in CC.
They act more as tarpits that will slowly break a unit down.

The 1 exception to this is wraiths.
Allways go for 6, allways take 3 whip coils, and its usually a pretty solid idea to take a lord with a scythe for that added impact.

You can make a royal court that is insane in combat, but its points match the insanity.

The flying aspect of crons is pretty damn solid though, and IMO, they have the best / most options when it comes to taking over the sky.
The doomscythe is solid with shooting and can ruin most players days, and for its moderate points cost, its very nice.

The night scythe is not a game breaker, but it gives you another vehicle in the air for the other player to contend with and really does keep you going alot longer.

Annihilation barges - Have to do a seperate thing for these really.
Just shy of 100 points and it causes and scary amount of damage through sheer volume of shooting.
Possibly one of the best units in the book for the damage it can cause.
Have recently seen a twin chart game where someone has taken 6 at 2k points (540 points for all 6) and those alone tore through the best part of the BA players army.

Other than that, its really a synergy list in which royal courts play a huge part.
They are something you can use to either bolster nearly every unit you have, or something you can build an army around.

Thats a rough rundown on them though.


DE:

Shooty is an understatement.
People either tend to run raiders full of warriors and a splinter rack, or smaller units (usually blaster armed trueborn) in venoms with twin splinter cannons.

Ravangers were pretty much an auto include in 5th due to the 3 dark lances each one has, but with 6th being quite towards flying armour, the voidraven and razorwing IMO have the edge on this one.

Combat wise, wyches can throw out a serious amount of damage and haywire grenades make a mockery of everything short of a flyer.
Lelith looks amazing on paper (usually 7+ attacks that ignore armour) but she really is a glass hammer, and a very small one.
She lacks the strength to really make those attacks count, and lacks the toughness to last in a drawn out fight.

Again for combat, incubi are a solid choice as they can chew through pretty much any unit you want them to, but you need a raider to get them there and you need to screen it as it will get shot down quickly.

Again, that was just a quick rundown on them.



Daemons:

My primary army
Nurgle has taken a slight nerf in 6th due to FNP being reduced to a 5+, however, only S10 ignores that now, so not a complete loss on that one.
They are still as slow as ever and dont really hit that well in combat.
If your going pure nurgle, make sure you have winged princes as they will be doing most of the damage for you.

Slaanesh is still good, overwatch hurts a bit though due to low toughness and poor saves.
The sheer volume of attacks at a high initiative though means you will cut through units pretty quickly, but you will want decent sized units as 5-10 really dont do much.
Fiends are an ace unit, stronger than any other normal slaanesh unit, faster than most of them and more attacks than the rest.
Also, they arent as soft so last a bit longer.

Khorne are good, but 6th hurt them a bit in that hellblades are now AP3 instead of ignoring all armour.
Crushers are just as strong as before really, but now thanks to the new assault rules can have a bit more range.
Letters on thier own arent bad, but lack of armour means they are only safe in combat, where they will go toe to toe with pretty much anything.
Hounds are, well, not that great.
They are a fast, hard hitting unit, but dont even have rending, so only really good against light units.
Thirsters are a beast as allways, so no real need for a mention other than that.
Skulltaker is very nice though.
Throw him on a juggernaught and put him with some crushers and send them monster hunting.

Tzeentch is my main army, and to be honest, i consider them slightly broken for power.
They allways were pretty solid, but 6th has just made that better, and a recent update has improved on this yet again.
Flamers are now the real stars of the daemons army.
Template attack that ignores saves and wounds on a 4+, for just over 20 points and has 2 wounds.
Also, wall of death overwatch means anything that assaults them usually dies very quickly.
Fateweaver is pretty much an auto include for tzeentch armies as it keeps them fighting longer than a nurgle army now.
I simply have a unit of horrors with an icon infront of fateweaver, then use that to drop units of flamers and screamers where i need them.
They sheer firepower they can throw out is scary.

Quick essential for daemons though, if you ever run a daemon prince, give him wings.
This gives him a ton of mobility, meaning he is where you need him the most.
This also makes him a FMC and really makes him live alot longer.


Think thats about it really.

Wow..

I'll attempt do the "battleforce plus" part then...

Necrons:

Best deal ever! Get a CCB box with it and you got an HQ and either a chariot/heavy(magnetise and you got both whenever you need). And I believe that's already a working 750pts-ish list? The CCB is truly a generous deal per GW's standard, they must be on something when they planned their necron boxes, most of them are very good deals, compare with other armies, that is...

DE:

The box itself isn't a bad deal... But you'd still need to get a lot of other boxes to get a working army. You could go with the battleforce + 2 venoms + an HQ choice, then you'd have a barely working 500pts list. You'd want to expand into the heavy slots if you want an edge, but you could also try reavers or whatnot, some DE runs their list without ravagers or flyers or MC and they play fine, heavy is just the easy route.

Daemons:

Sorry, no idea.

Clearly Jackal is marked out for greatness by the eyes of the Ruinous Powers themselves! Haha

Thanks for that awesome amount of information, that definitely gives me quite a bit to think on
It sounds like Daemons have a lot of underestimated/not thought of options that must not be there at casual glance, but if not dismissed, they have a lot more power than given credit for!

Would you be able to recommend anything for the "Battle Force plus" idea? I guess the benefit I have with Daemons is that that I actually have a Keeper of Secrets and a Great Unclean One from when Chaos Marines could run alongside them in the 3.5 C:CSM.

DE sound fast and deadly as they should. Raiders, Venoms and Razorwings definitely conjure up an awesome image of fast paced killin'!

Necrons sound like some serious heavy duty shooting! 6 Doomsday Arks? Geesh! That's a little crazy..

Thanks for all this info, I definitely appreciate it!
Anything else, anyone? Haha
T-

For Daemons, going the Battleforce + Daemon Prince + a Herald of your favourite God would be a solid start.

The Battleforce gets you enough models to run something like;

16+ Bloodletters - a large unit is mandetory because they have no ranged attacks of any kind, MUST Deep Strike into play, and can only hurt stuff by chopping it into iddy-bitty little red smears! The extra bodies help ensure that you should still have a meaty unit even after weathering a turn or two of enemy fire.

10 Daemonettes - still could really use a few more bodies, but if you drop 'em behind some cover and/or out of sight, they'll live long enough to tickle some enemies! Send 'em after either horde units like blob-squad IG, 'Nid gaunts, Chaos Cultists, etc... At a pinch, you can throw them into the likes of Ork Boyz, but with their T4, they do have the slight advantage.
These girls/guys/whats-its are also solid TEQ killers because they throw bucket-fulls of attack dice, and have Rending to boot! (my Orky friends are always jealous of these little beauties!)

2x 5 Pink Horrors - smaller units for now, but add an Iridescent Horror w/Bolt of Tzeentch for some not-totally reliable tank-hunting, or rather, S8/ap1 lovin' for those multi-wound T4 units & high armour save targets! Honestly, you don't use these guys for tank-hunting. Rather, send them gun down enemy infantry like dogs! With 3 shots apiece at ap4, only MEQ's/TEQ's aren't automatically running scared. With units of 9+, the number of shots you'll throw out can easily begin to worry any T4 units.

5 Seekers - okay, not so usefull at all with only 5 of 'em since they're soooooo squishy, but they have potential! Add another 5-7 or so and they'll start doing terribad things to other people. Think of them exactly like Daemonettes but they move way faster and have slightly more attacks! Being unit type 'Cavalry' also means they happily ignore difficult terrain penalites too!



For an HQ, you have a few options;
- A Herald of Tzeentch on Disc is mobile and can be given upgrades that make as flexible as a Tau battlesuit IC! His better BS also means he gets better use of Bolt for anti-tank, while he's still capable of also taking the godly Breath of Chaos gift, or else upgrading with the ability to shoot two different 'gifts' each at a different target.

- Skulltaker. The end-all-be-all of IC killing. Slap him on a Jugger, (conversion work required!), and you can escort him in with a unit of Bloodcrushers. Leave him on foot to save pts and he'll help those Bloodletter hack through TEQ saves. Put him on his chariot, (yet more conversion work!), and laugh as you have the equivalent of another Daemon Prince!!!
Only downside is Skulltaker in any mode of travel is slow, slow, slow! (but not quite Nurgle slow!)

- There is also a 'Direct Only' Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut available as well. not as amazing as Skulltaker, but still an option!

- The Masque of Slaanesh/Herald of Slaanesh. The Mask is wonderful, but really requires some cleaver play on your part and bigger, meaner, much scarier threats to keep her safe. She can't actually join any units since she's not an IC, and this is her downfall.
In a smaller army, I'd just use the model as a generic Slaanesh Herald who could lend some stronger attacks to the Daemonettes.

- Epidemius. He's really only amazing, (borderline broken), in a pure Nurgle army. But, in said army, he'll do awful, mean, horribad things that will make grown nerds cry tears of blood! Ally in some Nurgle marked CSM's to see how amazing armour save-ignoring shooting can be! (imagine Nurgle marked heavy bolter havocs?! oh dear... )

Those are the actual GW Herald models. However, you can easily convert just about any God-specific Chaos model or 'wizardy' looking chap into a Herald! For example, if you want a basic Herald of Tzeentch, you can pretty convert one out of any 'wizardy' model. Just give him a funky daemonic-looking head!



For an additional purchase, you can't go far wrong with a Daemon Prince! he's big, he bad@$$ and he'll help you out by providing some vehicle/TEQ killing prowess! Give him wings to make him highly mobile.
For a mark, it really depends on what you want...
Tzeentch boosts his invuln save, and gives you access to more shooting powers. (you can give him the ability to shoot upto 3 times per turn!) They tend to get expensive quickly however!
Nurgle unlocks the best character killing abilities. Noxious Touch + Unholy might is evil and means only solid invulns keep characters remotely safe!
Khorne gives him an additional attack making him a bit better at killing those non-stormshield Termie units.
Slaanesh gives you more initiative and the ability to buy the Hit-and-Run ability, plus the ability to strip a single chosen enemy model of an attack! (very handy for crippling the power fist dude!)

You can also go unmarked as well, but that's far less fun!
All princes bar Khornate ones can take most of the main Daemonic shooting powers, but Tzeentch gets more than the others.
Nurgle & Slaanesh princes can also buy a gift that gives them the effects of offensive & defensive grenades too!



From that little lot, you'll likely want to start looking at the Elites section and trying out the likes of Bloodcrushers, Flamers, Fiends, and likely more Flamers!

Other solid choices include the Greater Daemons, Screamers, more Seekers to make the first 5 viable, a Soul Grinder or two and/or trying out one of the new Slaaneshy chariots.
Those chariots actually hit really hard - especially the Exaulted chariot! Their weakness however is that they're about as survivable as Dark Eldar vehicles... But if you can keep your opponents occupied with other threats, these things will wreck units with their potential for 4D6 rending HoW hits!

Hope this helps!

These are a ton of favorable points in the Daemon's favor! I'm liking the sound of Bloodcrushers, Fiends and Flamers for sure! Haha
The Daemon Battle Force comes with a ton of figures, its true! Seems like it'd be easy to add a Winged Prince and an HQ to it to get it going!


Do any Dark Eldar and/or Necron players have any other thoughts on this?

Thanks for the awesome replies!
T-

Dark Eldar are my vote, although daemons are a close second. I started with orks and dark Eldar compliment them very well since they play and handle very differently. My recommendation is mostly from painting though. Dark Eldar are a huge joy to paint and have awesome models. I could paint talos pain engines all day. Scourges are great too.

I agree, the DE have some amazing looking models! All the skimmers and especially the Razorwing look so damn fast! Haha

I guess I didn't realize how well FMC's can do against Flyers, so that's reassuring.

Its a shame that (currently) Daemons don't have any dedicated Flyers though, dogfighting Razorwings against my buddies Dakkajet sounds appealing haha
Almost leaning towards DE or Daemons actually, but its hard because the Necrons have some shiny new toys these days....

Anyone have anything else?
T-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, with all the info the Daemons are definitely seeming more interesting with their unconventional style of warfare.

Questions:
how do the Greater Daemons stack up?

Is a Slaaneshi Herald on the Exhalted Chariot really as awesome as that model looks?

If I were to run a Keeper of Secrets and the above mentioned Herald/Exalted Chariot what would make a good 2nd Herald? (With no particular gods in mind) the reason for picking those two is that 1) I already have the Keeper and 2) the Chariot is so borderline ridiculous its cool lol

Are there any units to avoid as far as Daemons go? I'm not opposed to having representation from each of tye four Ruinous Powers, but don't really want to waste time and money on things that won't pay back the investment. Also, if units are called bad or not worth it, please say why.

I think that's it for the moment!
Anyone else who has any other info/opinions on the three armies, please feel free to chime in!
Thanks!
T-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bump for more info!

Any more Daemon/Dark Eldar /Necron info/feedback/opinions?

Id love to read more if there is any!

Thanks!
T-

 Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
I agree, the DE have some amazing looking models! All the skimmers and especially the Razorwing look so damn fast! Haha

I guess I didn't realize how well FMC's can do against Flyers, so that's reassuring.

Its a shame that (currently) Daemons don't have any dedicated Flyers though, dogfighting Razorwings against my buddies Dakkajet sounds appealing haha
Almost leaning towards DE or Daemons actually, but its hard because the Necrons have some shiny new toys these days....

Anyone have anything else?
T-

Why not go for Daemons w/allied DE then?! Sure it's the worst kind of alliance, But you could add-in a cheap HQ to flit about some dudes in a Venom or Raider and then have your Razorwing!

 Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, with all the info the Daemons are definitely seeming more interesting with their unconventional style of warfare.

Questions:
how do the Greater Daemons stack up?

Is a Slaaneshi Herald on the Exhalted Chariot really as awesome as that model looks?

If I were to run a Keeper of Secrets and the above mentioned Herald/Exalted Chariot what would make a good 2nd Herald? (With no particular gods in mind) the reason for picking those two is that 1) I already have the Keeper and 2) the Chariot is so borderline ridiculous its cool lol

The Exalted chariot can hit like a freaking frieght train on steroids! The problem is, it's armour is made of tinfoil just like those DE vehicles... You really need some much bigger & scarier looking threats to keep the opponent from looking at your chariot as an easy kill. (it's only av11 & open-topped after all!)
However, with 4HP's, it can take some punishment from smaller arms such as S5/6 weapons. Best of all, it's Hammer of Wrath hits are linked to it's remaining number of HP's. So an un-damaged Exalted Chariot can inflict 4D6 rending HoW hits on the charge, and then you get the Herald's blows as well. With a little luck, you can explode entire units with this thing! It's simply getting into combat unscathed that's the problem...

A Keeper is a solid HQ choice that honestly doesn't need many upgrades to do well. You've got plenty of ap2 attacks due to 'Smash!', can tackle vehicles better than the other Greaters, come with Fleet, and can buy offensive/defensive grenades & the ability to preform Hit-and-Run. With challenges now in the game, the Transfixing Gaze gift is also an amazing buy as you remove a single attack from your opponent. (very handy for gimping power fist/thunder hammer wielders!)

If you go for a Herald on Exalted Chariot, a KoS + say a Tzeentchian Herald on his chariot would be a decent pairing, since those other two are far more threatening and take more effort to remove. (the KoS being a big scary monster, while a chariot Tzherald has 5 wounds with a 4++ and can be immensely annoying with the right abilities!)

 Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
Are there any units to avoid as far as Daemons go? I'm not opposed to having representation from each of tye four Ruinous Powers, but don't really want to waste time and money on things that won't pay back the investment. Also, if units are called bad or not worth it, please say why.

I think that's it for the moment!
Anyone else who has any other info/opinions on the three armies, please feel free to chime in!
Thanks!
T-

I'd avoid the following units myself;
- Lord of Change. He's simply expensive for what you get. A 'Thirster or Keeper is far better in assaults, while a Daemon Prince shoots just as well but for cheaper - even with wings! A Herald of Tzeentch can also shoot multiple targets almost as well, but you can get 2 of them for less than the cost of a naked LoC!

- Herald of Nurgle. He's super slow, and not much use outside of an Epidemius build. Anything he can do, other Herlads can do much, much better - except in a Tally list obviously!

- Beasts of Nurgle. Just suck. Slow as slow can be, low initiative, no ranged attacks, random number of attacks in combat, only 2 wounds each... Heck, even a Tally list Nurglings are better bang for your buck! Just avoid...
If you want something spawny in nature like these guys, just ally in some CSM spawn!

- Furies. Welcome to the "Zombies of 40k" before VC's got their updated book! Useless assault unit that must always Deep Strike, is only WS3, has average initiative and no way to get specialist attacks like rending or poisoned attacks or even an ap value!!!
It's actually funny how bad these guys are... For what you really get, they deserve to be about 5-6pts/model right now, instead of being the same cost as a Grey Hunter!


Everything else has it's use, even Flesh Hounds. So really, unlike alot of other older books, we're pretty good in terms of viable unit choices.

I would think allied DE/Daemons would be a bit annoying with how much they need to move around.

Why does it seem like so many current Daemon players are only favoring Screamers/Flamers builds while filling in the obligatory HQ and Troops? Don't get me wrong, those two units are awesome, but I've gotten the impression that Daemons are (to some degree) like Eldar in that everything needs to work in some kind of unity with other units to really extend your mileage. So why are there (seemingly) lots of Daemon players who are essentially throwing their own codex under the bus?

Another Exalted Seeker Chariot questions: in the Codex it shows the different, improved stat-line once you equip them with a Steed or Chariot. Does the Exalted Seeker Chariot further improve the Slaaneshi Herald's stat-line further than the Codex Chariot entry on page 76, or is it the same for the Exalted Seeker chariot as it is for the generic chariot?

Thanks!
T-

** sorry, I don't think that was very well laid out, lol
What I'm saying is that it seems that the Daemon players I've seen Bat Reps from and even a few reviews are essentially saying that its only worth it to take Flamers/Screamers and everything else is mostly useless (unless you're going the Pro-Nurgle Epidemius Tally route with crazy allied Plague Marines) so they say their Troops are all useless except for taking the heat off the aforementioned units.

Any thoughts on that? (And the Exalted Seeker Chariot question!)
Thanks!
T-

So I've been thinking, that out of the three armies, I might consider trying Daemons but with Chaos Marine allies.

I have thought about something like this:
Keeper of Secrets
Herald of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot (please see above post question)
Herald of Tzeentch on Disc with various powers

x3-6 Flamers
Fiends or 'Crushers

10-15 Daemonettes
10-20 Horrors
10 Plaguebearers

3-6 Screamers

Chaos Sorcerer assorted powers

10-15 Marines
10-15 Marines (or Cultists)

Triple Ectoplasma Cannon Forgefiend

Any thoughts? I had some assorted questions in the last post if anyone can comment.
Thanks!
T-