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So on the way back from Throne of Skulls last night my friends and I came up with the idea of running a tournament in which you use the worst army possible. The name of the game is to just take the most nonsense stuff from any 40k codex and play some really fail games. Points is 2000 (more fail for the fail god), can use double force org if you like but try not to just spam 8 or 9 of the same units as its to be the lulz so the more different units of fail the better.

Players are expected to try and win each game, as trying to loose will just be particularly boring (ie sit in DZ and not move or shoot = suck game) but the player who finishes last will therefore have an army that is an affront - even to the Fail God himself - and they will ironically win the tournament. Conversely the person who finishes at the top of the pile has therefore failed at failing, and is routinely mocked.

We'll be running this at some point in Glasgow, Scotland over in the next few months so if your interested let us know on this thread. More details to follow nearer the time. For instance, a couple of armies that are being considered by friends of mine are as follows:

Eldar
Autarch, WarpJumpGenerator 95
6 SwoopingHawks 126
14 Guardians, BrightLance, Warlock, Spiritseer, Jetbike, Enhance 208
10 Guardians, BrightLance, Warlock, Spiritseer, Jetbike, Enhance 176
3 Vypers, BrightLance (deepbreath) VectoredEngines SpiritStones StarEngines Holofields 465
3 Vypers, BrightLance (deepbreath) VectoredEngines SpiritStones StarEngines Holofields 465
3 Vypers, BrightLance (deepbreath) VectoredEngines SpiritStones StarEngines Holofields 465

2000pts.

or Templars

Marshal - 134
auspex, bionics, combat shield, 2 x master crafted chainsword, teleport homer

Command squad - 261
9 initiates
Standard bearer
Sergeant w/ terminator honours, adamantine mantle, 2 x master crafted chain sword, teleport homer, combat shield

Rhino - 90
Power of the machine spirit, pintle mounted storm bolter

Emperors champion - 125
Suffer not the unclean to live

TROOPS
Crusader squad - 160
5 initiates, 5 neophytes), frags, crusader seals
Rhino - 90
Power of the machine spirit, pintle mounted storm bolter

Crusader squad - 170
5 initiates, 5 neophytes, kraks, crusader seals
Rhino - 90
Power of the machine spirit, pintle mounted storm bolter

FAST ATTACK
10 jump marines - 370
10 storm shields

10 jump marines) - 370
10 storm shields)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator - 140
Power of the machine spirit, pintle mounted storm bolter
Predator- 140
Power of the machine spirit, pintle mounted storm bolter

I think it'd be more fun to try to make an army that is the worst possible (perhaps scored by a judge) but then try to win with it. Hard to enforce people not trying to lose, when losing is the goal.

Wolf Fail:

Canis [185]

Fenrisian Wolves 128
Fenrisian Wolves 128
Fenrisian Wolves 128
Fenrisian Wolves 128
Fenrisian Wolves 128
Fenrisian Wolves 128

Wolf Guard Battle Leader 130
-Jump Pack
-Runic
-Wolf Tooth Necklace
-Wolf Tooth Talisman

Skyclaws 200

Wolf Guard Battle Leader 155
- Saga Hunter
- Wolf Claw x2
- Runic
- Wolf Tooth
- Wolf Tail

Wolf Scouts 205
- PP x2
- MG
- MotW

Lone Wolf 85
(TDA,CF,SS)

Whirlwind 90
-Dozer Blade

Whirlwind 90
-Dozer Blade

Whirlwind 90
-Dozer Blade

So I have ZERO scoring troops and three ordnance, barrage large blasts that can (and will) scatter into my orks... er wolves and murder them.

Running derp squad of Skyclaws and a derp squad of Wolf Scouts and a single Lone Wolf that really wants to kill himself given the amount of fail going on.

How's that? I can' actually win any game except one game type out of 6.

I think that this is the best idea. do it. now.

My friend Vladsimpaler and I have thought about this as well. Fail Orks would just be sooooooo great at 2000 pts. Something like

HQ
Big Mek - 73
Kustom Mega Blasta
ammo runt
3 grot oilers
Bosspole

Troops:
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100
30 grots w/ bare runtherd - 100

(LMFAO ^)

Fast Attack:
Storm Boyz (9) - 108

Heavy:
Battlewagon - 205
Killkannon, 'Ard case, RPJ, grot riggers, stikkbomb chukka, armour plates, boarding plank, grabbin' klaw, reinforced ram.

Battlewagon - 205
Killkannon, 'Ard case, RPJ, grot riggers, stikkbomb chukka, armour plates, boarding plank, grabbin' klaw, reinforced ram,

Battlewagon - 205
Killkannon, 'Ard case, RPJ, grot riggers, stikkbomb chukka, armour plates, boarding plank, grabbin' klaw, reinforced ram,

Total: 1996

Sure I have a lot of troops, but they are utter garbage, wouldn't even be able to fit on the board (so they'd come in via reserves) and then I 'may' have them retest their ld if they fail. So i elect not to and they get swept. Oh man, I'd lose in a hurry haha.

-VardenV2


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would also purposely try and deep strike the storm boyz near an objective that is swarming with enemies. If I get a hit, they will die. If I scatter, they will die... tactics!

 RiTides wrote:
I think it'd be more fun to try to make an army that is the worst possible (perhaps scored by a judge) but then try to win with it. Hard to enforce people not trying to lose, when losing is the goal.

It's actually pretty easy to enforce. During the game you use the army your opponent brought. The army gets the points for the game, not the player. Effectively you use your opponents army and he gets any points you gain. If the objective is to have the fewest points, you have the incentive to both make the worst army possible and play your best with his army in order to tank his scores.

I predict this tournament will fail at failing.

Isn't there a rule that says you can just walk off the table to kill units?

Chrysis wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I think it'd be more fun to try to make an army that is the worst possible (perhaps scored by a judge) but then try to win with it. Hard to enforce people not trying to lose, when losing is the goal.

It's actually pretty easy to enforce. During the game you use the army your opponent brought. The army gets the points for the game, not the player. Effectively you use your opponents army and he gets any points you gain. If the objective is to have the fewest points, you have the incentive to both make the worst army possible and play your best with his army in order to tank his scores.

I don't see in the OP that the players will switch armies... just use their own (unless I'm missing it).

If that's the case, you'd probably also have to say at least a few scoring units would be required, or change missions to be mostly kill-based, etc.

The reason I like the idea of making a bad list and then trying your best to win with it, is sometimes you see this in warmahordes- trying an unconventional list (perhaps due to a multi-list format) and doing well with it.

Of course, it works to try to win if you switch armies, but I don't think that's the suggested event.

It isn't, but it's the only realistic way something like this can be run. If the ultimate objective is to get the lowest score possible, then it's practically impossible to force people to try and win. After the 3rd consecutive shooting phase of the Guard player going "Whoops, I forgot to fire my artillery, my bad." people are going to start getting annoyed and it's impossible to prove that they didn't actually forget.

So to stop that, you have to swap armies. Now people will actually try and build bad lists because they'll be easy to stomp. And people will try to win, because the more points they can score in a game the fewer points they'll actually get for the game. The only other rule I'd add other than this is "No proxies." The guy playing with your army is already not especially familiar with it, making it more difficult to understand is bringing external factors into the results.

Chrysis wrote:


So to stop that, you have to swap armies. Now people will actually try and build bad lists because they'll be easy to stomp. And people will try to win, because the more points they can score in a game the fewer points they'll actually get for the game. The only other rule I'd add other than this is "No proxies." The guy playing with your army is already not especially familiar with it, making it more difficult to understand is bringing external factors into the results.

This.

We did that for are gaming group, make as bad list as possible, and then swap with someone else and play the tournament. It works because you make as bad list as possible, knowing you won't be playing it, but playing against it.

One other problem is that you're never going to have WYSIWYG armies for an event like this, since nobody has all the models required to make a terrible list. You'll need to come up with a policy on proxying, and be prepared to handle disagreements.


And of course Tau win this tournament effortlessly. Two squads of six carbine Fire Warriors, and then nothing but crisis suits with no weapons (drone controller with 2x marker drones, shield generator, targeting array, and every hardwired system). Once the token troops are slaughtered you have absolutely no way to kill anything except by assaulting with your crisis suits.

I wouldn't want to play an army I'm unfamiliar with... I'd rather try to make the weakest army list of my own possible (would have to be graded/scored, obviously) then try to win with it.

But, I can see switching armies with close friends / a gaming group... just not at a tournament with people I don't know

Parasite, 18 Pyrovores (don't assault them... Or do - its only 3 heavy flamers per unit), and the rest of the points in Rippers. With Spinefists. And Mycetic Spores for all the Pyrovores, just so they have a chance to do something.

Or go for the all Spore list, deep strike everything, and guarantee a loss every match.

 Brometheus wrote:
Isn't there a rule that says you can just walk off the table to kill units?

No. Models may not leave the table unless explicitly allowed to(flyers for example)

BA 2K

Reclusiarch - Jump Pack - 145

9x Death Company - Jump packs, 2x Thunderhammers - 855
9x Death Company - Jump packs, 2x Thunderhammers (1 w/dual power fists) - 845
Lemartes

1995


Guaranteed to get tabled in almost every game.

 RiTides wrote:
I wouldn't want to play an army I'm unfamiliar with... I'd rather try to make the weakest army list of my own possible (would have to be graded/scored, obviously) then try to win with it.

But, I can see switching armies with close friends / a gaming group... just not at a tournament with people I don't know

If you're relying on the honour system to have everyone trying to win (and you'll have to, because "You must try to win" is unenforceable) you're playing with friends anyway. If you try to run it at a tournament without swapping armies you aren't testing how bad the lists are, you're testing how "bad" the generals are. Someone who is determined to lose will find a way no matter what he uses, even something like a Draigo-wing list. And if you're asking people to try to win even though they want to lose I guarantee some of them won't be trying very hard.

As an idea, this is inherently restricted to groups of people you are happy playing with. It will never work open to everyone, although with list swapping is far more likely to work than without.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:
BA 2K

Reclusiarch - Jump Pack - 145

9x Death Company - Jump packs, 2x Thunderhammers - 855
9x Death Company - Jump packs, 2x Thunderhammers (1 w/dual power fists) - 845
Lemartes

1995


Guaranteed to get tabled in almost every game.

It'd destroy the previously mentioned Parasite/Pyrovore list. You have to keep in mind that it's practically impossible to design a list that is universally terrible. Any list is going to have some sort of strength to it, and it's an interesting test to see if people can exploit those strengths.

Chrysis wrote:
You have to keep in mind that it's practically impossible to design a list that is universally terrible.

Unless you play Tau. See the list with a total of 12x pulse carbines as its only ranged weapons I posted earlier. So really the whole tournament comes down to whether or not you have a Tau player with the models to bring it.

 Peregrine wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
You have to keep in mind that it's practically impossible to design a list that is universally terrible.

Unless you play Tau. See the list with a total of 12x pulse carbines as its only ranged weapons I posted earlier. So really the whole tournament comes down to whether or not you have a Tau player with the models to bring it.

They could still punch things to death, although they wouldn't do a good job. That is certainly the closest possible to a universally terrible list, and I imagine it certainly would take the prize if fielded. They could still win objective based games, especially if their opponent was the pyrovore list previously posted. As long as the suits worked together I think they could hold the rippers off the fire warriors.

Some interesting points brought up here. Ok yeah it may be hard to enforce people to try and win, but we hope that the spirit of the event would discourage people from powergaming ( I actually can't believe I wrote that for a thread about fail armies/tournament - perhpaps powerlosing??) If myself and the other TO's discover someone that is basically not moving or shooting, and generally just trying to loose they will be routinely mocked and outed as being a doosh.

But i suppose its all subjective really. For instance, I intend to take a Tau army of uber fail led by Aun'va, and you'd better believe he's leading my charge! I suppose some would say I'm trying to loose by having him charge forward and he's so terrible, but for me I actually want to see if I can kill something with him.

Here's what I may take. Never played Tau so unsure of the points just now;

HQ
Aun'va
Crisis commander with flamer, failsafe detonator bomb thing. Don't know if the commander can have it or a suit bodyguard guy, if so some of them

Elites
12 Aun'va bodyguard firewarriors that are not troops, devilfish with some gak upgrades, but no disruption pod

Fast attack
10 vespids with strain leader
10 vespids with strain leader
10 vespids with strain leader

Troops
35 kroot with kroot dugs and kroot cows
35 kroot with kroot dogs and kroot cows
35 kroot with kroot dogs and kroot cows
35 kroot with kroot d0gs and kroot cows
6 fire warriors with all upgrades on leader guy, same fail devilfish as above with elite FW

Heavy
Skyray with all upgrades
Skyray with all upgrades
Skyray with all upgrades

Considering that Aun'va has a rule called 'The Price of Ultimate Failure' or something like that, the Space Pope is totally destined for this tournament, and even if he dies the army won't benefit from preferred enemy as its full of vespids and kroot.

And yes, we will be proxying, purely because of the rubbish nature of the models, we wouldn't expect people to buy loads of pyrovores/mandrakes/vespids or other such under-par models that they'd never use in their normal competitive gaming

I'll say just one more thing : this was born out of the idea that my friends and I all play quite competitively and regularly attend tournaments - this is the anethema to what we'd normally be like and will therefore be a good bit of refreshing fun so we are open to suggestions on how it could be more fail/fun

That many Kroot would actually be pretty good...

I like the idea of a tournament with 'rubbish' lists. You have to try and win games, trying to fail would be pointless as its either impossible (if you apply restrictions like you have to actually move, shoot, assault etc) or it just involves doing nothing all game.

But trying to take a pretty rubbish list and win with it, it'd actually be a good way of showing how good you are at 40k. If everyone has rubbish lists, your on a pretty level playing field.

The probably is, whats rubbish? You'd more than likely get a few people trying to make the 'best' rubbish list possible. I think it'd take some work from the organisers, going through each codex and banning or restricting units/war gear. You could probably justify certain things being rubbish, when in actual fact they are pretty decent, and against actual rubbish lists would do very well.

This sounds like fun, sub'd for reading later!

I agree with those that said build lists and swap, or if you are playing this idea with close friends pull armies out of a hat and the player that wins the most with his random bad list wins.

Really though unless everyone involved has an extensive model collection this won't really work.

 Caranthir987 wrote:
Some interesting points brought up here. Ok yeah it may be hard to enforce people to try and win, but we hope that the spirit of the event would discourage people from powergaming ( I actually can't believe I wrote that for a thread about fail armies/tournament - perhpaps powerlosing??) If myself and the other TO's discover someone that is basically not moving or shooting, and generally just trying to loose they will be routinely mocked and outed as being a doosh.

But i suppose its all subjective really. For instance, I intend to take a Tau army of uber fail led by Aun'va, and you'd better believe he's leading my charge! I suppose some would say I'm trying to loose by having him charge forward and he's so terrible, but for me I actually want to see if I can kill something with him.

Here's what I may take. Never played Tau so unsure of the points just now;

HQ
Aun'va
Crisis commander with flamer, failsafe detonator bomb thing. Don't know if the commander can have it or a suit bodyguard guy, if so some of them

Elites
12 Aun'va bodyguard firewarriors that are not troops, devilfish with some gak upgrades, but no disruption pod

Fast attack
10 vespids with strain leader
10 vespids with strain leader
10 vespids with strain leader

Troops
35 kroot with kroot dugs and kroot cows
35 kroot with kroot dogs and kroot cows
35 kroot with kroot dogs and kroot cows
35 kroot with kroot d0gs and kroot cows
6 fire warriors with all upgrades on leader guy, same fail devilfish as above with elite FW

Heavy
Skyray with all upgrades
Skyray with all upgrades
Skyray with all upgrades

Considering that Aun'va has a rule called 'The Price of Ultimate Failure' or something like that, the Space Pope is totally destined for this tournament, and even if he dies the army won't benefit from preferred enemy as its full of vespids and kroot.

And yes, we will be proxying, purely because of the rubbish nature of the models, we wouldn't expect people to buy loads of pyrovores/mandrakes/vespids or other such under-par models that they'd never use in their normal competitive gaming

I'll say just one more thing : this was born out of the idea that my friends and I all play quite competitively and regularly attend tournaments - this is the anethema to what we'd normally be like and will therefore be a good bit of refreshing fun so we are open to suggestions on how it could be more fail/fun

None of your units really fall back either because they do not take leadership tests when Aun'Va bites the big one.

Aun'Va
HQ Shas'O With all the hardwired stuff, ejection seat, failsafe detonator
12 Firewarriors with Pulse Carbines X 8
10 firewarriors with Pulse CArbines X1
8 Gun Drones X6
2000 Points

Aun'Va jumps off a roof and takes a fall test. Jumps off again and dies. All firewarriors take a leadership test and fall off the board. Or at least 50% do.

Better yet try to take an Inquisitor with Plasma Siphon. I'm not sure if it works on allied armies or not but tau would be even worse for it.

I dislike the 'play to lose' attitude. If the goal is to bring 'non-optimal' lists, then promote a system of COMP (yes comp) that promotes taking unique and uncommon units and armies.

How about a system which counts against you for every common unit you bring?

Example:
+1 for every unit of the same type being used in the tourney
+1 for every unit with the exact same configuration used in the tourney.

Your goal is to have the lowest point army.

This discourages spam and promotes underused units and underused armies. If 10 people have Grey knights and necrons, the chances you will have duplicate and have a higher score. If yout ake a spamfest or a metalist, then youw ill have a crappy score. Then people play to win like normal.

That sounds way more interesting than just lose lists.

so how about this
dp with MO Slanesh Aura dimensional key ichor blood gift of mutation

chaos sorcerer

3x hellbrutes each with 2 power fists and 2 combi bolters

6 squads of 35 cultists champion with shotgun
3 squads are khrones

3 preadators with dirge casters, demonic possesion, dozer blades, extra armour, warpflame

Run any DA codex Greenwing list.
Bonus points if you use Devastators and Lascannons on your tactical squads!

nkelsch wrote:
I dislike the 'play to lose' attitude. If the goal is to bring 'non-optimal' lists, then promote a system of COMP (yes comp) that promotes taking unique and uncommon units and armies.

How about a system which counts against you for every common unit you bring?

Example:
+1 for every unit of the same type being used in the tourney
+1 for every unit with the exact same configuration used in the tourney.

Your goal is to have the lowest point army.

This discourages spam and promotes underused units and underused armies. If 10 people have Grey knights and necrons, the chances you will have duplicate and have a higher score. If yout ake a spamfest or a metalist, then youw ill have a crappy score. Then people play to win like normal.

That sounds way more interesting than just lose lists.

Sounds interesting however it greatly benefits Players that play less common armies. I mean I am the only Daemon player at my local shop so with your system I could run very close to my regular tournament list with no penalty.

That is why I said, I prefer make the worst list you can (must be WYSIWYG) and each game trade with your opponent, or each player randomly chooses a list and plays the event with it. The problem with almost ever Comp system is that it adds a second game to the tournament, the game of how do I work the the system to build a broken list within the system.

IG

x2 Primaris Pysker
140

3x Infantry Platoon
2 squads - nothing special

50 Conscripts

250 points x3 = 750 points

4 Chimeras

220 points

3 scout sentinel squadrons
with 9 missile launchers - I never hit with missiles, ever.

405 points

3 Deathstrike Missile Launchers

480

1995 points - 212 infantry, 16 vehicles, and M.A.D. after 4 turns. It's at least the most entertaining list in the tourney.

As for a bad list here are mine at 2k points
Daemons

Herald of Slaanesh (Transfixing gaze, Icon, Unholy might)

3 x 4 Nurglings
3 x 3 Nurglings

3 x 7 Beasts of Nurgle

3 x 20 Furies



I would say though that this type of tournament is probably better run at lower points.

You could start with a comp score based on the units composing each player's army.

If you go through each Codex...... give positive credit for using particularly weak units, negative credit for strong & popular unit choices.

With proper comp score, a solid list would start so far behind they can't make up the ground ...... encouraging the use of lesser units.




Breng....... that means no flamers, screamers, LOC, Tzeench & Nurgle DPs, Fateweaver or Bloodthirsters for you.
I'd forsee Daemonettes, Bloodletters, Flesh Hounds, Beasts of Nurgle, Furies, & Khorne DPs (w/out wings).