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My younger cousin is playing 1000 point matches against his friend who uses Grey Knights (purifiers, terminators and dreadknight/None Draigo list)

He has struggled to win a single game, and I said I would ask on here if anybody has any tactics/unit choices that are more favourable against the GK's.
Thanks for your time!

ahem, to adequately take down the cheese knights there are several things you can do.

2+ armor really hurts them in 6 ed, with most of their force weapons being ap 3. Nothing kills dreadnights/ terminators/ paladins/ purifiers like hammernators. tell him to give them a try.

Stormraven. The knights have NO skyfire whatsoever unless they opt for an aegis line or their own raven. Send it in laden with hammernators and enjoy

BA is better equipped to fight them this edition in my opinion.
TH/SS Termies, DC or SG would wipe the floor with them in melee most of the time.
If there's a lot of terminators/dreadknights, bring lots of PG and PC with Honor guards and Devestators usually works.
BA Raven is at an advantage against GK version due to bloodstrike missiles.

Can't GK raven get bonus psyammo? Isn't it still good at anti air?

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
Can't GK raven get bonus psyammo? Isn't it still good at anti air?

Yes, I was speaking in comparative terms of the two versions.

Also anyone can take an aegis and quad gun.

I play gk and id say that yes hammer termis are best vs gk although the problem is getting them into combat, literally 2 squads of gk with psybolt ammo and 2 psycannons will chew hrough terminator armor squads deep striking on the field before you can " I'm going to deepstrike my terminator..." next a dreadknight with greatsword will kill all your terminators in close combat, those that are left that is ....
mephiston is pretty rediculous and quite hard to kill in all honesty, I'd honestly state that he can tank an entie gk army shy of terminators, and shy of a purifier sqaud of full pscannons shooting 16 rending shots... typically, and with an inquisitor allowing re-roll to hit off divination tree hell get around 3-4 rending wounds on mephiston, so keeping him safe is deffinitely a must.


So mephiston

death company, are a huge threat on the charge, generally a gk army can't withstand 50 attack on the charge especially with a reclusiarch, for re-rolls on the charge, so id say this wold be a big unit to take

10 death company

reclusiarch

I'd say run a death company dreadnought as well, but if he's running a dreadknight it won't be there long enough to do anything even if it deepstrikes, seeing warpquake will keep you from his army long enough to shoot it to death.

land raiders are actually quite good, seeing you need something to deliver those death company
so

mephiston

reclusiarch

10 death company

landraider

then I'd go 10 assault marines for more attacks in close combat.

I'm suggestingclose combat against grey knights because truth be told, you stand a far better chance in close combat against ap3 then in a shooting war where they have 24' range str 5 shots and 16 shots, 8 psycannon shots

finally, I don't know how many points this is...
a normal squad to hold an objective

mephiston
reclusiarch
10 death company
10 assault marines
10 vanilla marines
1 land raider
that's what i'd take

Mephy against GK is good, though I'd watch out for Nemesis D-Hammers, since he isnt EW and a force weapon wound kills him.

BA Stormravens have huge advantage against GK ones, use them for air Superiority.

Mephiston is good in 6e, but not godlike like he was in 6e.
Mephiston has only AP3 weapon and no invuln save. This combined with the fact that you don't get DtW against Force Weapons means that any GK with Hammer is suddenly huge risk for Mephiston.

Most GK builds, excluding Henchmen, will struggle taking down TH/SS termies so those are good choice. Even GK terminator/paladin units will most likely only have 1-2 hammers / 5 models.

Dezstiny wrote:
I play gk and id say that yes hammer termis are best vs gk although the problem is getting them into combat, literally 2 squads of gk with psybolt ammo and 2 psycannons will chew hrough terminator armor squads deep striking on the field before you can " I'm going to deepstrike my terminator..." next a dreadknight with greatsword will kill all your terminators in close combat, those that are left that is ....
mephiston is pretty rediculous and quite hard to kill in all honesty, I'd honestly state that he can tank an entie gk army shy of terminators, and shy of a purifier sqaud of full pscannons shooting 16 rending shots... typically, and with an inquisitor allowing re-roll to hit off divination tree hell get around 3-4 rending wounds on mephiston, so keeping him safe is deffinitely a must.


So mephiston

death company, are a huge threat on the charge, generally a gk army can't withstand 50 attack on the charge especially with a reclusiarch, for re-rolls on the charge, so id say this wold be a big unit to take

10 death company

reclusiarch

I'd say run a death company dreadnought as well, but if he's running a dreadknight it won't be there long enough to do anything even if it deepstrikes, seeing warpquake will keep you from his army long enough to shoot it to death.

land raiders are actually quite good, seeing you need something to deliver those death company
so

mephiston

reclusiarch

10 death company

landraider

then I'd go 10 assault marines for more attacks in close combat.

I'm suggestingclose combat against grey knights because truth be told, you stand a far better chance in close combat against ap3 then in a shooting war where they have 24' range str 5 shots and 16 shots, 8 psycannon shots

finally, I don't know how many points this is...
a normal squad to hold an objective

mephiston
reclusiarch
10 death company
10 assault marines
10 vanilla marines
1 land raider
that's what i'd take

The GKs with Halberds will go first, and cleave a decent amount of those Death Company down.

The best thing to bring against Grey Knights is the standard anti Marine fare - AP3/2, lots of shots, and for Grey Knights, some anti Psyker goodness.

When I play the GK player at my local store he has told me that he only thing in a BA army he fears is my plasma. He plays a highly competative GK list. His guys have halberds and stacking hammerhand cheese, meaning that he hits me first, he hits me hard and he negates my armor save. I have found bikes and plasma Tac squads to be the most useful against him for the superior mobility of the bikes and the fact that he will target the plasma Tac first as its the thing that can hurt him most. I do not fear his psyriflemen dreds as they are only av12, I do not fear his dread knights as I typicall (in5th) would kill them with sergeants PF (at the loss of the majority of said Tac squad) . I think my best chances for beating this particular player is to take IG allies and out shoot him wih them and use some small deep striking BA elements to take out/tie up his most deadly units. And I would probably field a stormraven and a vendetta.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
When I play the GK player at my local store he has told me that he only thing in a BA army he fears is my plasma.

Looking through all the above suggestions, why on earth are you all focussing on CC superiority in 6th? This is the only bit of really good advice. Just shoot the damn GK down. BA can get cheaper dev squads than vanilla marines, couple that will MLs and PCs you'll blow the GK off the board. Throw plasma guns in every squad. I don't know if assault squads can take plasma, but if they can, use your movement superiority to run circles around the GK while chipping away with plasma.

You also could take priests - FNP is good. There's no denying that.


Vindicators are great too. Throw a siege shield on it. Hide turn one, turn two, drive forward and slam a str:10 ap:2 blast on them terminators with more than one wound and ID them all. It's even better if you can take 2 vindicators, not only will you be more likely to land a hit, your opponent will spend an inordinate amount of firepower trying to take them down, giving your dev squad(s) time to pump out more damage.
This can be coupled with Baal Preds. an AV:13 wall is pretty scary for GK, these can incinerate the 3+ armor sections that the vindicators don't aim for. They're fast attack too, so it gives you room to take a lot. I really think mech is the way to go. Lasplas razorbacks, plasma guns/cannons, vindicators, devs with MLs or PCs and baal preds.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Looking through all the above suggestions, why on earth are you all focussing on CC superiority in 6th? This is the only bit of really good advice. Just shoot the damn GK down.

As a GK player myself, I agree with this. Sure, you can out assault the GKs if you work at it (a full 10 man assault squad and 10-man DC chewed right through my 10-man paladin squad in one turn). But it doesn't take any work at all to out shoot the GKs. Plasma still works very well, like it does against any marine. But even just volume of fire will do the job. The more saves the GK player has to roll, the more he'll lose, even with terminators.

I also agree with both of you tannhauser and griddlelol, plasma gun fire does hurt but,I will not lie to you when i say that when i run my ds gk and ds next to ur sm squad i normally punch out 4-5 from one turn of fire (and thats a bad scenario) so you may not have any plasma guns left so your kind of wasting a squad in terms of use.

I Agree with you that halberds go first but 10 halberd attacks when ur dc charge them is by no means deadly. in that many attacks I may cause around 4-5 wounds if im lucky and at that 2 of those attacks arent even power weapon based. And in my experience against the reclusiarch dc, i lose my ssquad whatever it is everytime on the initial attack, so to not take them is really hurting your army especially if playing against paladins

As for the plasma cannon squad. xD rofl if i saw one on the field i'd just give myself a vp just looking at it. that squad wont last one turn of shooting from a squad of gk deep striking on the field. trust me, ive done the scenario so many times at my LGWS where people run tons of long fangs. DS 2 gk units on the other side of the field i take out both their 4 man plasma cannon teams in a single turn (and although i dont run paladins (Majorly cheesy and in my opinion garbage unlessrunning a drago wing list) i run interceptors which shunt to ur side of the field and shoot the crap out of your 3rd lf unit if you have another one which at 1k i highly doubt someone would. therefore plasma cannons nutrilized 300pts gone now just shunt the dreadknight into the face of (an sm plasma gun unit) and assault/wipe /hold them all game long....

OBviously what im trying to say is that DEV anything is garbage against an gk player who knows how to utilize there army to full extent.

while i dont absolutely disagree with plasma gun crazy vanilla marines everywhere, you have to remmber this is only 1k game meaning 2- 3 vanilla marines is already half his points plus an hq, maybe a termi squad, plus the devs thats his 1k.

1k of gk what the op is suggesting is like

quisi 64ish
divination re-roll to hit
servo skulls for accurate ds

2 10 gk ss 500

with goodies

DK 155

and with the last bit of points between paladins and purifiers would go
10 purifiers 4 psycannons. for around 280

pt total 999

in all honesty ur not going to be around long if i take out
that one lone dev squad then a whole vanilla squad with my psycanoon purifiers and reduce another squad to half strength reducing the points to something more like a 1k -600-650 pt game upon my initial strike.

run the dc in the landraider with the reclusiarh, it generally never fails,
mephiston in the back of the tank so he doesnt get shot up to peieces, and finally something which can deter my psycannon fire for a turn possibly blowing up ur landraider and leaving them footslogging, so yes i 1 4 man plasma cannon team

so thats like 250
250
200 150 and 5 man squad of vanilla marines or something to hold an objective, would be the best scenario
because generally the squad that mephiston attacks most probably the purifiers dies, it just does. then ur dc can attack his paladins or other gk squad and wipe them , then ur plasamas open fire on the last gk squad. that's pretty much a good game because while the dread knight is strong and will probably cleave up some of ur dc , dc still have a high chance of winning that battle just on the sheer number of attacks alone, plus i dont think ud have to worry as ud be taking wounds off oh him as you move your landraider up the field from ur lascannons, so actually id argue even a SR gunship with all the dc and reclusiarch in their would be a good idea as you get a melta and las cannon shot when it comes in on the turn/ thats 2 wounds another 2 the next turn and whenever the knight shows up in combat hes only got 1 wound left, peice of cake

so suggestively

mephiston

10 death company (a reclusiarch if you have the points)

landraider/ or SR (u will have the points for a reclusiarch if you take the SR)

5 man plasma cannon team

5 man vanilla mraines holding an objective.

hope everyone's suggestions are helping.

***forgot to touch up on ur suggestion of vehicles.
I actually like the suggestion, of 2 vindis id actually favor them over devs as, I''d be afraid to go out of a building because I know that i could only hit one and be sure to destroy it.
(purifiers) but the other i wouldnt be to sure about killing it because i dont get re-rolls on my hits for the second one and with only 4 shots (moving to get into position) i probably couldnt kill it

the list above plus instead of a plasma cannon team, a vindi actually sounds good. Its also good seeing you can insta kill his dreadknight that way and with that out of the way dc in assault mephiston in assault
...gk is done

Ba on pods and meltas. Works every time for me.

not against warpquake xD

5 Thunderhammer terminators with an Furisio dreadnought with claws in a blood raven.

Fly in on a turn, and laugh as they have to skyfire at your Av12.
Then switch modes, and take advantage of the assault ramps to disembark and assault. Blender dread should take out a whole squad, so should Hammernators.

-Matt

GK used to be my bane as I run infantry but here are some pointers. One thing to always consider is that beating them in CC is not ideal and they outperform at 24". Mobility, FNP and range is our strengths over them.

- Meph will still wreck them 2Bio/1Divination if your local area allows.
- Devestators - they are cheaper then vanilla and supported by a priest they are hard to move.
- PC-PG tactical squad - can make GK fear and toss them with a priest and still hard to move.
- Sternguard + Priest = can hellfire round any squad quickly if allowed
- In a shooty list a divination librarian pays for itself a few times over.
- Stormraven with DC/Chap, Hammertime Termies + Priest or Meph can ruin their day.


In most my games against GK my assault troops usually deny GK advancement and my 2-3 Devs rain long ranged firepower from afar. Without getting close they have little to deny 3+ armor 5+ FNP.

@Hawaii Matt , if that SR in a 1k match falls out the sky the game is over, =/

@hazal, you hit it all pretty much.

All in all, the match becomes easier as the points go up, because at 1k, gk are pretty op because they have generally the strongest all around army next to nurgle marine blocks xD

at around 1500 pts the game becomes quite even but, at 1k there are generally some (must takes as opposed to more optional play) you have to take a dc or terminator squad in a transport and get into combat with that paladin squad, (I'm still going to edge away from plasma cannon dev teams because theyre to squishy as, there aren't enough threats on the board at this many points) you have to take a tactial squad of some sort, then a reclusiarch, or mephi, and with those last points as much ap2/3 as possible