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Well it's as the title says really... How do I take down stormravens with chaos daemons???
My friend runs 2 and the best thing I can do is hide...
All I need help with is shooting them down, when they are zooming...
Thanks...

The vast majority of the Daemon codex cannot touch flyers. Since you are spending a bunch of points on flamers I assume you aren't running a pile of FMCs, which are the only things in the codex that can kill flyers with regularity. You have two options. You can hide from them, which should work pretty well considering your flamers are extremely mobile and EW and an invulnerable save protects against heavy weapons pretty well, or you can adjust your list to include units that can damage an AV12 flyer. FMCs with Bolt will do pretty well since you are shooting with BS5 and pull off a hull point on a 4+. Bloodthirster works too, but he is much better against AV11 than AV12. Other than that you have no codex options. A Quad Gun or Icarus Lascannon can work but a static defense line doesn't play nicely with a flamer list. You can also add allies that provide more anti air support.

Honestly, I would just ignore them and wreck the rest of your friend's army. 2 ravens with cargo is a lot of points so you have a large advantage on the ground. Once his army is crippled you just need to position yourself well and protect your troops so a last minute drop can't win him the game.

Yeah, thanks for the help... I have two bloodthirsters... So there could be something there... Would they vector strike it?

DP's can only use bolts to kill Storm Ravens, you cant vector strike them with DP's only BT's and other GD.

Best you can do is ignore them

I also forgot to mention that I do not bother with troops... I just have 4 squads of three nurglings.. As I used to play a bloodletter bases list... Which are now redundant... This gives me a hell of a lot of points to spend... 54 flamers only come to 1242pts... 2 bloodthirsters with unholy might and botbg cost a further 550.... And the 4 squads of nurglings 156... That gets me up to 1948... That leaves me with 52pts to spend... Any ideas?
And thanks again for the help...


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I thought all flying monsterous creatures could Vector strike?
So why can't daemon princes? Am I missing a rule here?

They can but dont have a high enough strength to affect av12, BT is also only str 8 so needs 4's to glance 5/6 to pen,

Also what allies would you reccomend... I have thought of including 2 helldrakes with auto cannons instead of the bloodthirsters.... Is this a better option?


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Oh yeah... So do you think helldrakes are better?


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Damn, all these posts are out of synch...

I play BA's mate, so wouldnt know, I have only faced Helldrakes with bale flamers which do the same as your flamers. I would just go after his troops with your flamers, no troops means he cant win

54 flamers 1242pts
2 flying heralds 130pts
5 squads of three nurglings 195pts
2 helldrakes 340pts
Well, that's it so far... What should I do for hq and troops in chaos... Do I have enough points left?
I might make this a 2250pt list...

It's a BA player I am after with this list...
Known as samuele999 on this site... (hi Sam)
He is a very good player...
And I am a very bad player...

He generally runs 2 stormravens full with death company, and a dreadnought with those claw thingies....(very scary)
Not to mention his assault terminators and all his other scary tanks...

Ya, Helldrakes are pretty solid.

My friend took out my storm raven in a singe turn with 1 of them so 2 should take out a Storm Raven a turn no sweat and since you'll have CSM allies, might as well bring a Quad gun or Lascannon defense line just to be sure. Stick some cultists in there with an icon giving them feel no pain in addition to their 4+ cover so shooting at them will take some effort which people won't want to spend away from your Flamers. If he is in Zooming mode then all the death company inside die when it is shot down.

Ahriman is pretty ruthless HQ, but to go better with your theme of Nurgle troops you could go Typhus and a squad of Zombies to hold the Aegis defense line.

Yeah...it's not really a nurgle theme... They are there simply because they are a cheap way to fill up the needed troops choices...

And I like the idea of the quad gun/ las cannon thingy... Which do you think would be the best one for the job?

Thanks for the great suggestions... This is really helping.


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What is the strength of a quad gun, and how many shots?

Well, even if it isn't a theme Typhus with Zombies will stay put either holding an objective (conveniently placed by your defense line with some Nurglings hiding behind them so you can't draw line of site to them or at best shooting at them with a 3+ cover save).

Normally I'd say quad gun, but if you Bring Typhus he can shoot that Las Cannon with an 83% chance to hit and 50% chance to pen (66% to glance) and if the storm raven isn't on the board yet he can shoot it at a squad and a to hit roll of 6 you can allocate the wound to an HQ without eternal warrior or take your pick of their greatest threat on the board with its ridiculous range.

Hmmm, I don't know how I can fit typhus in???
I only have 343pts to spend on 2 troops and 2 HQs...
How can I fit all this in???

What is the cheapest hq in the csm codex?
Let's say I spend 140pts on the 2 HQs... And 200 on the troops... That leaves me with no quad guns...
Are 2 helldrakes enough for 2 stormravens?

So heres what the list looks like so far...

2 flying tzeentch heralds
54 flamers
15 nurglings
2 cheap chaos HQs (how many points are apostles?)
40ish cultists
And 2 helldrakes

Any further ideas?

Well, as an ally you only need 1 HQ and 1 Troop.

But I do see your point: A Chaos lord who also has BS 5 and is only 65 points and then 10 chaos marines with a lascannon or auto cannon and a Lascannon Defense line is only 300-310

I'd say 1 Helldrake, the defense line above and a Forgefeind with 2 Hades Autocannons (8 str 8 shots, even as snapshots are pretty good) is 710 points all said and done and keeps you within a single allied detachment should take out a storm raven a turn. Especially since they don't sell cultists by themselves yet.

A cheap HQ and a base squad of cultists with defense line is only 200 points though when they come out.

Here's the thing... I have 40 cultists... (around 200pts)
This leaves me with 143pts for two HQs... As I think that the two helldrakes are the way forward... This leaves me with 343pts for 2 HQs and 2 troops... The troops I have...(40 cultists)... What can I do with 70pts for an hq?

A base Chaos Lord is 65 points or a Sorcerer is 60. Sorcerer is nice so you can use biomancy to beef up your cultists. Only BS 4, but the lord could mount the cannon while the Sorcerer beefs ups your local units for the long haul.

Or two Chaos Lords w/ Cultists + two Aegis Defense Lines + 2 Helldrakes = No more Storm Raven problems.

That sounds like a plan... Thanks Sorginak

No sweat.

I think I just gave myself a good idea of how to kill my friends' Helldrakes a little more efficiently now as well.

Yer fethed. Allied CSM or allied Traitor Guard (think regular Guard but painted funny colors) is likely your best route.

I really don't think you are allowed to complain if you are running 54 flamers. That's about the beirdiest you can possibly get with Daemons. Of course you aren't going to be able to deal with everything if literally half of your points are being spent on one unit that just fires templates. 2 storm ravens will do basically nothing against all those flamers so you really shouldn't worry. Just place templates over your opponent's army and win the game off the back of a severely undercosted unit.

I really don't think you are allowed to complain if you are running 54 flamers. That's about the beirdiest you can possibly get with Daemons. Of course you aren't going to be able to deal with everything if literally half of your points are being spent on one unit that just fires templates.

+1

You took the "new and shiny unbalanced unit" and pushed it to the max in your army with the fewest possible troops (or near enough) and you're now whining that you found out something that your ultra-specialized army cannot cope with

Play a balanced and interesting list (and yes I think Daemons need allies .... in fact Daemons should nearly always be allies according to fluff) and you'll find that WH40K is in fact interesting and not only about building the invincible list

Take a Chaos HQ (preferably with BS5), 2 allied troops (cheap useful Marines or dirt cheap less useful cultists) and a large Havoc Squad (ablative armor + 4 AC or 4 Flakk, more expensive though) plus an ADL with Icarus ... You'll have some anti-air saturation fire plus one anti-air killing blow shot (or you can go quad gun for more saturation, but you're facing AV12 here)

P.s, I already had 27 flamers in 5th edition...when they weren't as good... (they were still great)
And I only got the other 27 as they were new models...
The only reason I use such a specialised list is that I love flamers soo much... I love the fluff, I love the models, and I love the rules...
Even if they were worse I would still max out on them...

Also, I am not trying to build an invincible list... Well I am... But only to stop my losing streak at the minute... (My friend is really good)

I am a player that is used to fielding mono-god lists... So I don't have enough models to create a balanced list... (before tzeentch it was khorne)

I have...
60 ish bloodletters
20 daemonettes
11 pink horrors
3 bloodcrushers
54 flamers
2 flying heralds
15 nurglings
1 soulgrinder
2 bloodthirsters
3 daemon princes (2 with wings)
9 screamers
and 5 seekers

Actually, maybe I do...

I will try to come up with a balanced list in a different thread.

I think maybe I'm seeing some issues with the rules?

First, if you ally with CSM, you're only allowed 1 fast attack unit from the CSM codes. One heldrake is one FA choice, so you can't have two in an allied detachment unless I'm missing something.

Second, unless they changed the rules in 6th, nurglings can't claim objectives because they're swarms. So you automatically lose objective based missions?

MarkyMark wrote:
They can but dont have a high enough strength to affect av12, BT is also only str 8 so needs 4's to glance 5/6 to pen,

Bloodthirsters are only str 7 unless you take Unholy Might, which doesn't affect Vector Strike.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
I think maybe I'm seeing some issues with the rules?

First, if you ally with CSM, you're only allowed 1 fast attack unit from the CSM codes. One heldrake is one FA choice, so you can't have two in an allied detachment unless I'm missing something.

Second, unless they changed the rules in 6th, nurglings can't claim objectives because they're swarms. So you automatically lose objective based missions?

2 force organisation charts = 2 allied detatchment charts... I think...
And can't the cultists claim objectives?


Would vendettas be better than helldrakes?

Sorginak wrote:Or two Chaos Lords w/ Cultists + two Aegis Defense Lines + 2 Helldrakes = No more Storm Raven problems.

A combination that is only possible at 2000pts or more, and to be honest, isn't all that effective at taking out multiple Storm Ravens. Firstly, Heldrakes are not good at anti-air roles, they are millions of miles better at talking the ground. Secondly, that's a bunch of S7 with no damage modifiers against AV12. Doesn't really scream, 'no more Storm Raven problems'.

What would you reccomend then

Well first and foremost; why are Daemons scared of Storm Ravens? Ravens specialise in killing mech, TEQ, and MEQ. Daemons have only one unit that fits this bill. With the right set-up they can have a good rate of fire, but Daemons still shouldn't sweat it too much.

What's important here is what you are running and how many he is running. Fateweaver, Lords of Change, and Daemon Princes are all excellent choices all round, and happens to be the best thing in the Codex at knocking out flyers. The one nice thing about Ravens in comparison to Vendettas or Scythes is two the most you are likely to see.

My friend runs 2, soon to be 3... So are you saying Scythes or vendettas?

An'arkh'ad'nron wrote:
So are you saying Scythes or vendettas?

Ah what? Did you not read my post?