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The question is because I don't know if Chaos can compete.
I lack the time or the experience to understand if a list can be built that can deal with these 3 main armies that seem to be doing so well in competative play currently.
So Dakka, the challenge is on. Can we devise a list with allies or not that can beat IG, Daemons and Necrons?

This probably needs someone with more experience than I to really break down the opponents list and look at what we have to deal with to then understand what should be in our list to compete.
If even that is possible with our new codex...
I'm not asking anyone to write me a list, just some thoughts on what units will help to do well against the main forces above and perhaps what tactical play you can add to that.

Any advice is appreciated as always.

Well considering that CSM can take each of those three as allies then I would say that those threats can be dealt with.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
The question is because I don't know if Chaos can compete.
I lack the time or the experience to understand if a list can be built that can deal with these 3 main armies that seem to be doing so well in competative play currently.
So Dakka, the challenge is on. Can we devise a list with allies or not that can beat IG, Daemons and Necrons?

This probably needs someone with more experience than I to really break down the opponents list and look at what we have to deal with to then understand what should be in our list to compete.
If even that is possible with our new codex...
I'm not asking anyone to write me a list, just some thoughts on what units will help to do well against the main forces above and perhaps what tactical play you can add to that.

Any advice is appreciated as always.

daemons are far from on of the strongest codexes.

Chaos can compete but it isnt a top tier codex.

You can try to tailor a list to face those 3 opponents or you can build a list with the best options the CSM codex have to offer.

You need to be able to deal with armored vehicles, infantry and you need as much heavy weapons you can fit in your army.

I advise making a list that can take all comers instead of trying to make a list that can defeat a particular army. You can also make an ultra specialised list, like a Khorne list or an Iron Warrior list, they work pretty well against anything.

The CSM codex gives you the ability to build all kind of armies and it's a great flexibilty to have...

As somebody on Dakka once said, a cardinal rule of the game is "shoot the stabby, stab the shooty". If you make a balanced list of a mixture of the best shooty and the best stabby units in the codex, it then becomes only a matter of your skill to implement that rule in practice and of course, of the luck of the dice. Tailoring lists is lame and a crutch. If you want to be a good player, you should avoid it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As somebody on Dakka once said, a cardinal rule of the game is "shoot the stabby, stab the shooty". If you make a balanced list of a mixture of the best shooty and the best stabby units in the codex, it then becomes only a matter of your skill to implement that rule in practice and of course, of the luck of the dice. Tailoring lists is lame and a crutch. If you want to be a good player, you should avoid it.

Chaos isn't at a huge disadvantage against those armies. But they aren't any better off than they were with the 4th edition codex either.

Most likely they are a bit worse off than they were with double daemon lash + plasma cannon spam more powerful than anything in the new codex.

Daemons are not that hard to counter. CSm can match many of their prowess in assault and has better shooting. It may suffer against flying circus, though, but a Hades Cannon helldrake helped by some fortifications can help.

Agains Necrons and IG....I don't think there is much to be done. They can easily clog the skies with cheap, good flyers and still have points left to nuke you on the ground. You will never match them in number of bodies or number of vehicles, and your vehicles will easily be disposed of.

There is just all kinds of terrible information in this thread. A lot of it is just plain wrong, and a lot of it is not current
with the current meta as defined by tournament winnings.

TOP:
1 - Daemons Tzeentch Spam
2 - Toss up between necron air force and IG air force
3 - Grey Knights
4 - Space Wolves

MID:
Orks
Blood Angels
Dark Eldar
Necron - Ground Army Build
IG - Ground Army Build
Chaos Space Marines
Space Marines

It is more difficult to form a tier list in 6th edition because of the ally system. However, the above is very realistic considering the meta as of November, 2012.

So far the best I can come up with is taking crap loads of chosen, possibly Abby too. This way you get everything you need

-Shooty/Heavy Weapons in the form of 5 per squad
-Choppy in the form of making them all Khorne and getting 5 attacks per model on the charge 4 with overwatch if you get charged

Add Havocs, Forgefiends, Heldrakes, Oblits, Bikes and Spawn to flavor and cook for 3 hours at 1 GW store, chill overnight.

Firstborn wrote:
There is just all kinds of terrible information in this thread. A lot of it is just plain wrong, and a lot of it is not current
with the current meta as defined by tournament winnings.

TOP:
1 - Daemons Tzeentch Spam
2 - Toss up between necron air force and IG air force
3 - Grey Knights
4 - Space Wolves

MID:
Orks
Blood Angels
Dark Eldar
Necron - Ground Army Build
IG - Ground Army Build


Chaos Space Marines
Space Marines

It is more difficult to form a tier list in 6th edition because of the ally system. However, the above is very realistic considering the meta as of November, 2012.

These are the top armies
1) IG/SW IG/GK
2) Nercons
3) Daemons
4) GK
5) SW

Don't get me wrong, Daemons did well at FOB, but it did lose to an Nercons Air force. I even test played againt Daemons Vs. Nercons....my GT list easly won against Daemons

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

Firstborn wrote:
There is just all kinds of terrible information in this thread. A lot of it is just plain wrong, and a lot of it is not current
with the current meta as defined by tournament winnings.

TOP:
1 - Daemons Tzeentch Spam
2 - Toss up between necron air force and IG air force
3 - Grey Knights
4 - Space Wolves

MID:
Orks
Blood Angels
Dark Eldar
Necron - Ground Army Build
IG - Ground Army Build


Chaos Space Marines
Space Marines

It is more difficult to form a tier list in 6th edition because of the ally system. However, the above is very realistic considering the meta as of November, 2012.

These are the top armies
1) IG/SW IG/GK
2) Nercons
3) Daemons
4) GK
5) SW

Don't get me wrong, Daemons did well at FOB, but it did lose to an Nercons Air force. I even test played againt Daemons V
s. Nercons....my GT list easly won against Daemons

Daemons have done a lot more than that. They also took 2nd at Nova (could have easily won the final game), and
Have won multiple recent GT`s. Daemons normally table Necron ground based builds. The only current WAAC builds on their level are necron and ig air force builds.

Firstborn wrote:
There is just all kinds of terrible information in this thread. A lot of it is just plain wrong, and a lot of it is not current
with the current meta as defined by tournament winnings.

TOP:
1 - Daemons Tzeentch Spam
2 - Toss up between necron air force and IG air force
3 - Grey Knights
4 - Space Wolves

MID:
Orks
Blood Angels
Dark Eldar
Necron - Ground Army Build
IG - Ground Army Build
Chaos Space Marines
Space Marines

It is more difficult to form a tier list in 6th edition because of the ally system. However, the above is very realistic considering the meta as of November, 2012.

The problem here is your phrasing. Replace 'the meta' with 'your meta' and you have a valid point. Otherwise it is nonsense as not every meta is the same. For instance over here Necrons of all kinds have been dominating , not just the Air Force, and Guard have only been doing very well when paired with Wolves. Wolves on their own have not been doing well at all.

On another note, as an old school 40K veteran, if anyone is thinking of getting into the game based on one of the top builds; don't. Get into an army based on the models that you like. The "meta" is constantly changing. This time next year you will likely see all of these lists re-arranged.

And as Godless-Minicry pointed out, meta's are different depending on region. The game is much more enjoyable if you are able to build and paint the models you really like.

Firstborn wrote:
On another note, as an old school 40K veteran, if anyone is thinking of getting into the game based on one of the top builds; don't. Get into an army based on the models that you like. The "meta" is constantly changing. This time next year you will likely see all of these lists re-arranged.

And as Godless-Minicry pointed out, meta's are different depending on region. The game is much more enjoyable if you are able to build and paint the models you really like.

Maybe I got into the Game with IG, spent a hundred or so bucks on models that just were not good, and are not good still. lol
If you figure out the game a bit before you jump in you'll probably have more fun also.

Back to the op, chaos has a lot to offer:
Cheap and very customizable hq
Lots of scoring options
Lots of viable heavy choices
Good assault units
Good shooting units
Access to.flyers
Access.to anti air

Nothing seems terribly over priced save daemon princes, defilers and land raiders.

Stand out good units: burning brand, havocs, spawn, bikes, plague marines.

Unit Name Upgrades points
Primary Detatchment x2
HQ Slots
Abbadon hq Warlord 265
Lord of Chaos hq 65
Troop Slots
Chosen 2 melta 3 plasma Rihno 190
Chosen 2 melta 3 plasma Rihno 190
Plasma chosen 5 plasma Rihno 200
melta chosen 5 melta guns Rihno 175
Elite Slots
Terminaters 3 teminaters 188
Fast Attack Slot
Helldrake Baleflamer 170
Heavy Support Slots x2
Oblitarator of nurgle mark of nurgle 76
Oblitarator of nurgle mark of nurgle 76
Oblitarator of nurgle mark of nurgle 76
Oblitarator of nurgle mark of nurgle 76
Oblitarator of nurgle mark of nurgle 76
Oblitarator of nurgle mark of nurgle 76
Allied Force
HQ Slots
Plasma hq 4 plasma guns 2 plana pistels 185
Troop Slots
Vetern squad 3melta guns 155
Fast Attack Slot
Vendettas 2 squadroned 260

Total Points 2499



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this is the best list my friend and i have come up with over several weeks of testing ageist necrons, and daemons