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Maybe i just suck at searching, or suck at reading rulebooks, but i can't find a good answer anywhere.
My question is, what is the Dakkajet's arc of fire? The supa-shootas are fixed, and the dakkajet can only turn a maximum of 90 degrees in the beginning of your movement phase. Can it only fire straight forward, or what?

Similar on the vendetta ( although it can hover ) its just assumed to be infront of the plane , what my guys do is about a 33 degree turning arc for wing mounted weapons excluding missiles . But in your case it would be assumed a 45 degree firing arc ( similar to leman Russ hull weapon )

The guns are hull mounted. So you have a 22.5 degree left, right, up, and down angle on the guns.

rigeld2 wrote:
The guns are hull mounted. So you have a 22.5 degree left, right, up, and down angle on the guns.

This. hull mounted weapons have a 45 degree arc.

rigeld2 wrote:
The guns are hull mounted. So you have a 22.5 degree left, right, up, and down angle on the guns.

+1

+2

Note that is from each gun individually.

So there will be a seperate 45 degree cone extending from each gun, not a single 45 degree cone from the center of the dakka jet.

Thanks for the quick answers everyone! This will help me alot in my upcoming battles!

Is the rulebooks specific about the 45 applying to the Z axis?

Since the game is three dimensional, it must apply to the z axis.

Night scythe height of gun about 5.5", height of target 1.5" difference in height 4". Simple trig to figure this out, will use a cheater website.

http://www.1728.org/trig.htm

Angle is 22.5 which is half of the 45

Side 2 is 4

Blind spot of a night scythe shooting 1.5" tall infantry=zero to 9.66". Effective range of the gun is 10 to 24"

Ork dakkajet 1 of the 3 suppa shootas is at the same level as the night scythe, the other 2 are about an inch taller. That raises their minimum range to 12" against a model 1.5" tall because side 2 is now 5".

If a flyer ends on a hill that increases side 2 by about 3", which would increase the minimum range of a night scythe to 17"

 schadenfreude wrote:
Is the rulebooks specific about the 45 applying to the Z axis?

Yes."In the rare cases when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 degrees" (page 72).

I suppose the main issue with the dakkajet, would be trying to figure out where to measure the arc from - considering it only comes with two weapons statwise, but has four weapons on the model.

(and, naturally, 3 stat wise, 6 on the model - if you purchase the additional Supa Shoota).

Considering the weapon spread, where would one actually check the arc?

Luide wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Is the rulebooks specific about the 45 applying to the Z axis?

Yes."In the rare cases when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 degrees" (page 72).

But not down so strict raw=flyers can't shoot ground targets?

 schadenfreude wrote:

Luide wrote:
["In the rare cases when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 degrees" (page 72).

But not down so strict raw=flyers can't shoot ground targets?

It's not "up" as the direction, it's "up to" meaning the maximum possible. 45 degrees total is 22,5 up or 22,5 down as already stated.

But in your case it would be assumed a 45 degree firing arc ( similar to leman Russ hull weapon )

I don't agree with the Leman Russ part
the 45 degree arc only applies to fixed weapons (vindicato's demolisher, flyers wing's weapons (and some chin ones too), Vyper's underslung weapons ...)
In the case of the Leman Russ, the front (hull) weapon is mobile and can turn 45 degree on each side, thus a 90 degree firing arc (and I think it's even clearly shown in a picture in the BRB)

 Kharrak wrote:
I suppose the main issue with the dakkajet, would be trying to figure out where to measure the arc from - considering it only comes with two weapons statwise, but has four weapons on the model.

(and, naturally, 3 stat wise, 6 on the model - if you purchase the additional Supa Shoota).

Considering the weapon spread, where would one actually check the arc?

This is the real issue, the jet comes with two twin linked guns and one of them is split with a barrel on each wing, so is that one gun with two firing arcs?

Spetulhu wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Luide wrote:
["In the rare cases when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 degrees" (page 72).

But not down so strict raw=flyers can't shoot ground targets?

It's not "up" as the direction, it's "up to" meaning the maximum possible. 45 degrees total is 22,5 up or 22,5 down as already stated.

So my previous math stands and most flyers have a 9.5 to 12" minimum range against a ground target that's 1.5" tall.

I agree with the left-right arc for flyers as the direction of flight is something that is easy to represent on a fixed model, but not the up-down arc. It makes a bit more sense for gound vehicles as the weapon mount is fixed to a chassis that depends on the ground angle for its absolute range of movement. However it makes no sense for Aircraft as they are able to change their angle at will. Having ground attack aircraft on a base with a fixed height and angle is not a good representation of the abilities of a ground attack aircraft, especially given that most of them have fancy vector thrusters or AG devices.

Personally I tend to ignore vertical arc issue for all vehicles, except for very specific cases where the height difference is extreme. For the 2-3 storey range of building heights used in normal games almost ay vehicle would be able to find a bit of lumpy ground in their travel path to help with barrel elevation. this too is not well represented in the use of ultra-flat simplified table tops.

 Flinty wrote:
I agree with the left-right arc for flyers as the direction of flight is something that is easy to represent on a fixed model, but not the up-down arc. It makes a bit more sense for gound vehicles as the weapon mount is fixed to a chassis that depends on the ground angle for its absolute range of movement. However it makes no sense for Aircraft as they are able to change their angle at will. Having ground attack aircraft on a base with a fixed height and angle is not a good representation of the abilities of a ground attack aircraft, especially given that most of them have fancy vector thrusters or AG devices.

Personally I tend to ignore vertical arc issue for all vehicles, except for very specific cases where the height difference is extreme. For the 2-3 storey range of building heights used in normal games almost ay vehicle would be able to find a bit of lumpy ground in their travel path to help with barrel elevation. this too is not well represented in the use of ultra-flat simplified table tops.

You may ignore them if you like, however there are no rules for doing so. Hull mounted weapons have a degree angle which includes the vertical.

A fair point, but a rule of debatable integrity

bagtagger wrote:

 Kharrak wrote:
I suppose the main issue with the dakkajet, would be trying to figure out where to measure the arc from - considering it only comes with two weapons statwise, but has four weapons on the model.

(and, naturally, 3 stat wise, 6 on the model - if you purchase the additional Supa Shoota).

Considering the weapon spread, where would one actually check the arc?

This is the real issue, the jet comes with two twin linked guns and one of them is split with a barrel on each wing, so is that one gun with two firing arcs?

Yes, if a gun has multiple barrels you are free to choose which barrel you measure down.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Yes, if a gun has multiple barrels you are free to choose which barrel you measure down.

I'm going to bet we don't have a rule to back that up. Not that I disagree, just that this section of the rule book is pretty thin.

So what is the consensus on arc of fire?
We know left and right is 22.5 degrees in each direction, is up and down split the same way?
If so, would it be helpful to diagram LoS to ground for each flyer with a listings of minimum range?
Should I just model my flyer angled down 22.5 or 45 degrees for a "no more down than this" approach?




-Matt

The rules say trace down the barrel.

The rules also don't say what to do if you have multiple barrels.

So you are logically allowed to trace down a barrel if it has multiples.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Yes, if a gun has multiple barrels you are free to choose which barrel you measure down.

I'm going to bet we don't have a rule to back that up. Not that I disagree, just that this section of the rule book is pretty thin.

So what is the consensus on arc of fire?
We know left and right is 22.5 degrees in each direction, is up and down split the same way?
If so, would it be helpful to diagram LoS to ground for each flyer with a listings of minimum range?
Should I just model my flyer angled down 22.5 or 45 degrees for a "no more down than this" approach?

Necron FAQ wrote:Q: What is the arc of fire for a gauss flayer array? (p53)
A: As it is mounted on the hull it will have a 45 degree arc of
fire. However it is slightly unusual in that it has multiple gun
barrels. As long as you can draw line of sight along one of
them, you can target the unit

That seems general enough to be precedent setting.
And yes - up and down is split the same way.

 schadenfreude wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Luide wrote:
["In the rare cases when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 degrees" (page 72).

But not down so strict raw=flyers can't shoot ground targets?

It's not "up" as the direction, it's "up to" meaning the maximum possible. 45 degrees total is 22,5 up or 22,5 down as already stated.

So my previous math stands and most flyers have a 9.5 to 12" minimum range against a ground target that's 1.5" tall.

if the gun was level with the ground, yes.

but the guns(and/or their mounts) are not generaslly level with the table top, they are already at a 22.5* down-facing angle.

All 3 guns on a valk/vend, for example, have a little over 3" minimum range to an average standing model(further for kneeling, prone, or short models).

I know this may has most likely come up in another post, but what is the official reference which fixes vehicle arcs of fire to 22.5 to either side for a total of 45? And where that is decided from?
I know the BRB 45 reference but all it says is 45, I do not see where it says 45 divided in half L/R from the fixed position as opposed to 45 from the fixed position. Please be kind as I know this has been beat to death, I am just trying to get the reference.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Luide wrote:
["In the rare cases when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 degrees" (page 72).

But not down so strict raw=flyers can't shoot ground targets?

It's not "up" as the direction, it's "up to" meaning the maximum possible. 45 degrees total is 22,5 up or 22,5 down as already stated.

So my previous math stands and most flyers have a 9.5 to 12" minimum range against a ground target that's 1.5" tall.

if the gun was level with the ground, yes.

but the guns(and/or their mounts) are not generaslly level with the table top, they are already at a 22.5* down-facing angle.

All 3 guns on a valk/vend, for example, have a little over 3" minimum range to an average standing model(further for kneeling, prone, or short models).

The vendetta's guns are aimed straight forward, but the model might have a downward angle. Can anybody confirm which models have a downward angle when on their flight stands?

Vendettas, Valks, Ork Flyers, and Necron Flyers.

So NOT Stormravens or stormtalons.

 ah64pilot5 wrote:
I know this may has most likely come up in another post, but what is the official reference which fixes vehicle arcs of fire to 22.5 to either side for a total of 45? And where that is decided from?
I know the BRB 45 reference but all it says is 45, I do not see where it says 45 divided in half L/R from the fixed position as opposed to 45 from the fixed position. Please be kind as I know this has been beat to death, I am just trying to get the reference.

Page 72 shows fire arcs. The one of the Leman Russ would be the most relevant.
45 deg total. Which would be 22.5 to either side.
And 45 deg vertical, so 22.5 down and 22.5 up for a total of 45