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So based on the lore that I know, this is the allies matrix that I thought of. I'm no lore encyclopedia though so any help would be much appreciated.

I tried to make it so any common army could be played. For example, renegade marines or traitor guard can be played by allying with chaos marines or daemons. Human auxiliaries are available to the Tau. Tyranids can even do genestealer cults by allying with Imperial Guard.




Note: Tables are really difficult to make on forums, hope it's easy enough to read.
Note 2: After looking at the tyranids line, I thought for a second it said nom nom nom nom


*edit for legibility

Fairly difficult to read, I'd recommend adding more spacing to make it more legible. I'm wondering how you're justifying Guard allied with 'Nids, Genestealer Cults don't bear much resemblance (if any) to Guard regiments in terms of the amount of armor we're talking...

If you're looking to make tables on forums, boot up Microsoft Excel, do the table there, take a print screen (may take more than one depending on table and monitor size) and then upload the image(s) onto a hosting site and then post it/them here.

Simples.

So Tau only get Guard and Eldar as BB, while Space marines get 8.

Kinda skewed worse than the original.

Would love to see this mocked up so it is legible.

If I'm reading this right, why are CSM Battle Brothers with Codex Marines?

Thank you very much for the suggestion Shadow!



Alright, so as to justification for this.

Yes, there are significantly more instances of Battle Brothers for the Imperium side than for Xenos side. This allies chart was not made for balance, it was made so fluffy armies that can't be covered in a codex can be legal.

CSM being Battle Brothers with SM is not a typo. There was a post I saw that justified it much better than I can, but the gist of it is to allow for Renegade Marines to be fielded.

There are some odd ones on here I admit, but most of them have some sort of fluff justification. Unfortunately, fluff based allies charts are very imbalanced. I honestly have no idea how to make an allies chart that is based on fluff and balanced. I'm no fluff expert though, so if there are ones on here that make no sense fluff wise please let me know.

Yeah, I will admit that balancing a fluffy chart would be difficult or impossible. But this clearly benefits IoM armies more than anything else.

Which colors are good/beneficial allies?

I think this would be a better representation, IMO.

for those who have a hard time reading it goes as follows.

Space Marines, Blood Angels, Black Templar, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Imperial Guard, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Orks, Necrons, Tyranids.

Grey= Battle Brothers
Yellow= Allies of Convenience
Blue= Desperate Allies
Wnite= None

All I can add is: Thank you for putting Tau as Battle Brothers with Imperial Guard. I'm without any clue as to why the core book says Tau are BB with Space Marines and only Allies of Convenience with Guard. No sense was made that day.

...I'm still confused as to why 'Nids and IG are suddenly Allies of Convenience. Nowhere in the fluff are there Genestealer Cults with aircraft or Leman Russes...

Yeah, I think it's a bit too heavily skewed toward IoM. Why do CSM lost DE and Crons as allies? DE and CSM seem to be the perfect Desperate Allies pairing: raiders making a tentative agreement to split plunder, with both of them watching the other waiting for them to let their guard down before trying to steal it all. Crons also seem like they're be fine working with CSM, it's not like Chaos bothers them any.

@AnomanderRake: I debated between either making Tyrandis their own battle brother or adding in guard for the GC, in the end I just went with what he had.

@codemonkey: It is skewed towards the IoM, but I do not know their fluff well enough to put in the variances that I would like. I knew Space Wolves and Dark Angels have problems working together, but don't know any other marines who operate similarly. As to why CSM lost DE and Crons as allies, DE never made sense to me. Lets see you try and avoid having your soul stolen by chaos, even if its only one fourth of chaos, yet you'll team up with them? Crons was because I was told by our local Cron player that in their new fluff they would never work with Chaos.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
...I'm still confused as to why 'Nids and IG are suddenly Allies of Convenience. Nowhere in the fluff are there Genestealer Cults with aircraft or Leman Russes...

It's theoretically possible. If the Genestealer infestation were to spread to local IG regiments, it's probable they'd take advantage of the Guard's technology.

 arinnoor wrote:
@AnomanderRake: I debated between either making Tyrandis their own battle brother or adding in guard for the GC, in the end I just went with what he had.

@codemonkey: It is skewed towards the IoM, but I do not know their fluff well enough to put in the variances that I would like. I knew Space Wolves and Dark Angels have problems working together, but don't know any other marines who operate similarly. As to why CSM lost DE and Crons as allies, DE never made sense to me. Lets see you try and avoid having your soul stolen by chaos, even if its only one fourth of chaos, yet you'll team up with them? Crons was because I was told by our local Cron player that in their new fluff they would never work with Chaos.

Well, CSM don't steal souls just by being nearby. As long as the DE do their thing, they're fine. I'd say Crons are pragmatic enough to work with nearly anyone, circumstances providing. They certainly aren't afraid of getting corrupted.

 Darth Bob wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
...I'm still confused as to why 'Nids and IG are suddenly Allies of Convenience. Nowhere in the fluff are there Genestealer Cults with aircraft or Leman Russes...

It's theoretically possible. If the Genestealer infestation were to spread to local IG regiments, it's probable they'd take advantage of the Guard's technology.

Idk. When I first heard about Allies, I thought it was weird that IG and 'Nids couldn't ally. But, the fluff says that generally when the real invasion comes, the genestealer cultists just run out into the open to get consumed and reprocessed, not try to fight using the tanks they had.

I don't know codemonkey. My mind just can't get around any Archon taking that risk, but then again I typically think of DE in a Skaven mindset so perhaps I could be wrong.

On the Necrons can you give me a reason they would ally with Chaos Marines and not the daemons? I view them as, in the intrust of allies, of being one and the same.

Out of interest, what is the reasoning and reason behind why Eldar and Dark Eldar are only Desperate Allies?

I don't see Craftworld Eldar, who from what I've read do not hold their dark kin in a very high light, uniting with said kin unless their need was dire. Am I wrong about this?

 arinnoor wrote:
I don't see Craftworld Eldar, who from what I've read do not hold their dark kin in a very high light, uniting with said kin unless their need was dire. Am I wrong about this?

Eldar and Dark Eldar view each other with contempt, but they still view each other as family. It's like if your brother is a complete donkey-cave and is in a bit of trouble, you will probably say "You did this to yourself, but you are still my brother, so I'm going to help you out". Plus, Eldar + DE is a fairly decent representation for Eldar Corsairs without using the Corsairs rules from FW.

EDIT: Also, Orks and Tau should be desperate allies, as the fluff outright states that Orks are one of the few races who the Tau will fire on sight at, negotiations have failed too many times and they've gained enough of an insight into Ork psychology to realize that they are completely and utterly incompatible with the Greater Good.

Dark Angels and Space Wolves should be no worse than Allies of Convenience. The rivalry between them is often overstated on these boards, usually when they work together they have a customary (and usually nonlethal) duel between two champions, and then work together as well as any other chapter (unlike, say, the White Scars and the Raven Guard).

RegalPhantom wrote:

 arinnoor wrote:
I don't see Craftworld Eldar, who from what I've read do not hold their dark kin in a very high light, uniting with said kin unless their need was dire. Am I wrong about this?

Eldar and Dark Eldar view each other with contempt, but they still view each other as family. It's like if your brother is a complete donkey-cave and is in a bit of trouble, you will probably say "You did this to yourself, but you are still my brother, so I'm going to help you out". Plus, Eldar + DE is a fairly decent representation for Eldar Corsairs without using the Corsairs rules from FW.

The Eldar and Dark Eldar both regard their species (the difference is ideological; there is at least one recorded case of an Incubus deciding he wants to join a Scorpion Aspect shrine) as so superior that anyone else might as well be animals, really. A reasonable analogy might be the Nazis' attempt to reach out to 'Aryans' outside Germany to help out; they may not like each other, but if someone you don't like but consider an actual person is under threat from someone who you don't like and consider less than human, you're reasonably likely to jump in and defend other people against the hostile subhuman-animal-things based on tribal instincts alone.

RegalPhantom, I'll trust you on the Eldar/DE bit, but from what I've read on Space Wolves and Dark Angels I would have to disagree. In the Space Wolves book Sons of Fenris by WIlliam King it takes quite a bit to get both Chapters to work together.

@Arinnoor

I agree with most of your changes, but was curious why you changed CSM and SM?

I think it would be best to let them stay battle brothers in order to simulate the renegade space marines. Recently traitorous marines would have access to new equipment and would not be mutated yet or anything like that. The fluff wouldn't make sense if it was saying that Raven Guard are allied with the World Eaters, but hopefully nobody is going to try to pull that.

And desperate allies still gives them that ability, of all the new equipment, but keeps them in a state of distrust. I don't see why battle brothers would be needed.

Just thinking that they are kind of at either end of a spectrum.

They either completely hate each other for their treachery/loyalty, or they are buddy-buddy because they have both turned chaos.

I feel like doing anything but battle brothers is like trying to take the average of a binary number, and won't really work. However, allowing battle brothers gives the player the option of either making a renegade marine group or not taking allies and staying loyal.


Personally though, if I was a TO I wouldn't allow allies unless they had a damn good background. Allies seem like they should be a way to make a friendly game legal to me, but to each their own.

Hm, I guess this is a difference of opinion to me as I do not feel true renegades would be buddy-buddy with Chaos and don't turn to Chaos itself. If they have turned to Chaos then are they not Chaos Marines and not Renegade? Relictors are to my mind the primer example.

I still ask why is battle brothers needed? I could see and argument for Allies of Convenience, but don't really see the need for battle brothers as, IIRC, all that would gain them is the ability to put ICs in each others squads, benefit from each others rules and powers. I don't see Renegades, in my interpretation of them, as accepting Chaos powers as at that point they would be Chaos Marines and not Renegades.