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Pretty self explanatory: I'm going up against Orks and I'm trying to figure out if I want to use four autocannons or four heavy bolters in my Havocs. Any thoughts? Thanks.

I'd go with Autocannons over Heavy Bolters in pretty much any match-up, including Orks.

First off, wounding on 2's vs wounding on 3's means that the difference is actually very small....

4 Heavy Bolters = 12 shots, 8 hits, 5.3333 wounds
4 Autocannons = 8 shots, 5.3333 hits, 4.4444 wounds

So we're talking about a 1 wound per turn difference, at most. However, keep in mind that Autocannons have an extra 12" range, can easily hurt light vehicles (which heavy bolters can barely scratch), and only get better against higher toughness enemies. T5 Nob Bikers? The autocannons will actually do more wounds than the heavy bolters.

As said, heavy bolters inflict more wounds against an Ork horde.
The choice between autocannons and heavy bolters will also depend on the rest of your list.

but finding the models to represent the autocannons oooh boy

i was looking on bitzbox at either the guard weapons team auto cannon or an ork big shoota?

 muleyyy wrote:
but finding the models to represent the autocannons oooh boy

i was looking on bitzbox at either the guard weapons team auto cannon or an ork big shoota?

Yeah, big shootas are an option. I have 8 blastmasters (from 3rd ed) that I use as autocannons.

 muleyyy wrote:
but finding the models to represent the autocannons oooh boy

i was looking on bitzbox at either the guard weapons team auto cannon or an ork big shoota?

easily done with big shootas

If he has any vehicles besides the battlewagon, you will want the autocannons.

Heavy bolters are the better choice in the face of large numbers of footslogging mobs, Autocannons are the better choice when pitted against Trukks, 'Ard Boyz, bikers, et cetera. Also consider missile launchers as a best-of-both-worlds situation since they can take down vehicles and have blast markers for dealing with mobs.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Heavy bolters are the better choice in the face of large numbers of footslogging mobs, Autocannons are the better choice when pitted against Trukks, 'Ard Boyz, bikers, et cetera. Also consider missile launchers as a best-of-both-worlds situation since they can take down vehicles and have blast markers for dealing with mobs.

heavy bolters are still better against 'ard Boyz.

missile launchers cost more for CSM.

I say autocannons.

Short answer? It depends.

Long answer? I'll let the Mathhammer speak for itself. All wounds are considered unsaved at AP4, Havocs with 4 heavy weapons:

HB havocs vs....... T4........................... T5................... ........T5 w/ 5++
p(At least 1W).......0.99913557..........0.992292653....... 0.979860431
p(At least 2W).......0.99083704..........0.946048574........0.886908576
p(At least 3W).......0.954323507........0.818877354........0.69027965
p(At least 4W).......0.856954088........0.606925322........0.438191284
p(At least 5W).......0.681689133........0.368479286........0.22003789
p(At least 6W).......0.45639954..........0.177675415........0.085782852
p(At least 7W).......0.066400598........0.025543257........0.025543257
p(At least 8W).......0.103439289....... 0.01871139..........0.005684049
p(At least 9W).......0.031650763........0.003808513........0.000910201
p(At least 10W).....0.006125954........0.000496763........9.41587E-05

AC havocs vs........T4...........................T5............................T5 w/ 5++
p(At least 1W).......0.998477561........0.998477561.......0.99308115
p(At least 2W).......0.983253173........0.983253173.......0.945364944
p(At least 3W).......0.916646473........0.916646473.......0.801393634
p(At least 4W).......0.750129725........0.750129725.......0.553167237
p(At least 5W).......0.489947306........0.489947306.......0.285681895
p(At least 6W).......0.231287326........0.229764887.......0.101209245
p(At least 7W).......0.067150875........0.067150875.......0.021695172
p(At least 8W).......0.009074443........0.009074443.......0.002110425
p(At least 9W).......0..............................0.............................0
p(At least 10W).....0.............................0..............................0

HB havocs vs.......AV10......................AV11......................AV12
p(3HP stripped)...0.454745529........0.14079223..........0
p(explodes!)..........0.200929096.......0..............................0

AC havocs vs.......AV10......................AV11.......................AV12
p(3HP stripped)...0.660958665........0.438806666........0.211293649
p(explodes!)..........0.366988893.......0.260604726........0.138893479

@Exergy
what kit do those big shootas come in? they look great as Autocannons

The three in the front are from the ork boy box. the center left looks like a Cultist Heavy Stubber.

One thing I have seen for Havoc Autocannons is to cut off the barrel of a heavy Bolter and stick a longer barrel on there. Such as the barrel of a big shoota or a Guardsmen Autocannon.

I am currently doing the above Heavy Bolter idea, but I just can't get it to look how I want it to.

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
@Exergy
what kit do those big shootas come in? they look great as Autocannons

3 are from the ork boys kit, 1 is AoBR ork boy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
more autocannon ideas from heavy bolters

Gonna have to agree with the above, Autocannons all the way. They pretty much murder most ork vehicles other than the wagons/flyers, which is nothing but a good thing.

Kans? dead. Deffkoptas? Dead. Deff Dreads? Dead.

Unless you are absolutely certain he's running a pure green tide, it's an obvious choice, Autocannons all the way. Using up a Heavy Support slot with exclusively anti infantry seems like a bad idea in general.

I generally run autocannons with most of my havok squads, unless I am going for flakk missiles. Hell, I generally dont even bother with that, 8 autocannon shots means that 1-2 str 7 shot goes through even in snapshot, which against some fliers is all you need.

That being said, the 20 points extra for missle launchers might be worth it for the extra omph, and most importantly to counter that annoying KFF.

^^lovin' those autocannons. Cool conversions. Also, OT, as an ork player, I feel like it really does depend. Against a battlewagon brigade, autocannons can shoot at wagon side armor, but really it's unlikely that they will get to shoot at more than one wagon before the boyz unload and you start to think you might want heavy bolters. Also, if you are taking hb or AC, you aren't taking flakk missiles, so unless you have hellturkeys or a flying DP, all anti air will be snapfiring. Dakkajets are not something you should ignore, so you might think about which is better vs. Air. Dakkajet is only av 10, so str 5 is really enough, and with sixes to hit, you want quantity, not quality.

Someone stated already in the thread, but I'd take missile launcher. Krak shots for armor/nobs and Small blasts for boyz

My take on AC ,)

Here's mine just cut the heavy bolter hands, paste them on the IG autocannon team and enjoy