Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**p5freak**

Hard_rock_geo wrote:

Wraiths definitely are good, I've just found them a tad expensive, especially as I play against a lot of smiting lists. Scarab screen is definitely a good strategy that i use for my C'tan. The only issue with Wraiths is they can move faster so could be held back a little bit by a scarab screen. Still a viable tactic for sure.

Scarabs can advance. As nephrekh they auto advance 16". They can even charge after advancing with a stratagem.

**Hard_rock_geo**

Scarabs can advance. As nephrekh they auto advance 16". They can even charge after advancing with a stratagem.

Yeah but then your wraiths will also be advancing at the same rate, always gonna be slightly faster than the scarabs. Not that it matters a great deal, its just not 100% perfect.

**Odrankt**

I run my Wraiths as Nihilakh so I can give them 2+ invul using the Nihi gem when 3" of an objective.

**p5freak**

Hard_rock_geo wrote:
Scarabs can advance. As nephrekh they auto advance 16". They can even charge after advancing with a stratagem.

Yeah but then your wraiths will also be advancing at the same rate, always gonna be slightly faster than the scarabs. Not that it matters a great deal, its just not 100% perfect.

What ? You dont have to advance your full movement. If you roll a 3 for your scarabs when they advance you can move them 12", just like your wraith. You can even decide not to move at all when advancing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Odrankt wrote:
I run my Wraiths as Nihilakh so I can give them 2+ invul using the Nihi gem when 3" of an objective.

Wraiths arent the best choice of units when it comes to objective grabbing/holding.

**Hard_rock_geo**

Scarabs can advance. As nephrekh they auto advance 16". They can even charge after advancing with a stratagem.

Yeah but then your wraiths will also be advancing at the same rate, always gonna be slightly faster than the scarabs. Not that it matters a great deal, its just not 100% perfect.

What ? You dont have to advance your full movement. If you roll a 3 for your scarabs when they advance you can move them 12", just like your wraith. You can even decide not to move at all when advancing.

Yes I know you don't have to move the full movement. What I'm saying is the scarab screen will be slightly holding back your wraiths. You will mostly likely want to be advancing your wraiths 1 or 2 turns fully as fast as they can go in order to get into combat. If your scarab screen is 2 inches a turn slower then that's 4 extra inches your gonna need to make on your charge. Not exactly game breaking but its not 100% ideal.

**p5freak**

Hard_rock_geo wrote:
Scarabs can advance. As nephrekh they auto advance 16". They can even charge after advancing with a stratagem.

Yeah but then your wraiths will also be advancing at the same rate, always gonna be slightly faster than the scarabs. Not that it matters a great deal, its just not 100% perfect.

What ? You dont have to advance your full movement. If you roll a 3 for your scarabs when they advance you can move them 12", just like your wraith. You can even decide not to move at all when advancing.

Yes I know you don't have to move the full movement. What I'm saying is the scarab screen will be slightly holding back your wraiths. You will mostly likely want to be advancing your wraiths 1 or 2 turns fully as fast as they can go in order to get into combat. If your scarab screen is 2 inches a turn slower then that's 4 extra inches your gonna need to make on your charge. Not exactly game breaking but its not 100% ideal.

Ok, got it now. There are two dynasties for wraith that make sense, nephrekh and novokh. If you play wraith as novokh you can play scarabs as nephrekh. That way your scarabs will be as fast as your wraith with a roll up to 4. If your wraith are nephrekh as well, then yes, they will get slowed down a bit.

**skoffs**

Hard_rock_geo wrote:
AM has at least 48" range. How do you get them within 24" for your destroyers ?

So I combine the Deceiver with the veil of Darkness. This reliably gets both Crypteks, both units of Destroyers and the C'tan himself across the board turn 1. Otherwise I use the mobility that fly gives us to get into good cover as I advance. The 72 inch Doomsday Cannon is gonna outrange them still, they'll need to come to us at some point.

So what happens when you don't go first?

**Neophyte2012**

skoffs wrote:
Hard_rock_geo wrote:
AM has at least 48" range. How do you get them within 24" for your destroyers ?

So I combine the Deceiver with the veil of Darkness. This reliably gets both Crypteks, both units of Destroyers and the C'tan himself across the board turn 1. Otherwise I use the mobility that fly gives us to get into good cover as I advance. The 72 inch Doomsday Cannon is gonna outrange them still, they'll need to come to us at some point.

So what happens when you don't go first?

Then you are doomed anyway.

Lucky thing is, the redeployment via Deceiver happens at the start of Battle Round 1, which means you already knows weather you will go furst or no.

So, if you really not getting the 1st turn, you can choose to put those Destroyers and support characters in cover AND behind large LoS blocking terrains, by LoS blocking I don't mean totally unseen by enemy, but at least the most enemy heavy hitting units threatening those Destroyers cannot shoot at you T1.

**Hard_rock_geo**

Scarabs can advance. As nephrekh they auto advance 16". They can even charge after advancing with a stratagem.

Yeah but then your wraiths will also be advancing at the same rate, always gonna be slightly faster than the scarabs. Not that it matters a great deal, its just not 100% perfect.

What ? You dont have to advance your full movement. If you roll a 3 for your scarabs when they advance you can move them 12", just like your wraith. You can even decide not to move at all when advancing.

Yes I know you don't have to move the full movement. What I'm saying is the scarab screen will be slightly holding back your wraiths. You will mostly likely want to be advancing your wraiths 1 or 2 turns fully as fast as they can go in order to get into combat. If your scarab screen is 2 inches a turn slower then that's 4 extra inches your gonna need to make on your charge. Not exactly game breaking but its not 100% ideal.

Ok, got it now. There are two dynasties for wraith that make sense, nephrekh and novokh. If you play wraith as novokh you can play scarabs as nephrekh. That way your scarabs will be as fast as your wraith with a roll up to 4. If your wraith are nephrekh as well, then yes, they will get slowed down a bit.

Yeah I think you could potentially build a really powerful Novokh detachment with lots of wraiths/destroyer lord. Hopefully our transports get a cost reduction come the winter and we can start to use lychguard more effectively too.

Then you are doomed anyway.

Lucky thing is, the redeployment via Deceiver happens at the start of Battle Round 1, which means you already knows weather you will go furst or no.

So, if you really not getting the 1st turn, you can choose to put those Destroyers and support characters in cover AND behind large LoS blocking terrains, by LoS blocking I don't mean totally unseen by enemy, but at least the most enemy heavy hitting units threatening those Destroyers cannot shoot at you T1.

Yeah pretty much this. If i get second turn i use the redeployment defensively. Hide as much as I can that isn't already hidden. I can still veil on my turn 1 to get some movement. Then the second destroyer squad can move up the board a bit more cautiously with the second cloaktek/C'tan in support.

**p5freak**

Hard_rock_geo wrote:

Yeah I think you could potentially build a really powerful Novokh detachment with lots of wraiths/destroyer lord. Hopefully our transports get a cost reduction come the winter and we can start to use lychguard more effectively too.

Yes, you can. Dlord with phylactery and voidreaper, 9 scarabs as shield in front to intercept smites, countercharges, etc., and 6 wraiths, all novokh.

**torblind**

p5freak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Odrankt wrote:
I run my Wraiths as Nihilakh so I can give them 2+ invul using the Nihi gem when 3" of an objective.

Wraiths arent the best choice of units when it comes to objective grabbing/holding.

It's not about holding objectives, just need to stay within 3" of them

**Odrankt**

torblind wrote:

p5freak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Odrankt wrote:
I run my Wraiths as Nihilakh so I can give them 2+ invul using the Nihi gem when 3" of an objective.

Wraiths arent the best choice of units when it comes to objective grabbing/holding.

It's not about holding objectives, just need to stay within 3" of them

Wraiths Backed up by 9 Scarabs is what I use to hold an Objective. However I am saying I use the Nihilakh gem to grant them 2++ because. All they need to be is within 3" of an objective. even if your opponent is obj-secured you can still use the gem meaning you give them a hard time in their CC phase.

**p5freak**

Odrankt wrote:

Wraiths Backed up by 9 Scarabs is what I use to hold an Objective. However I am saying I use the Nihilakh gem to grant them 2++ because. All they need to be is within 3" of an objective. even if your opponent is obj-secured you can still use the gem meaning you give them a hard time in their CC phase.

Do you know that your opponent doesnt need to attack you if you are 3" away from the objective ? He can also stay 3" away with his obsec (single model) unit on the other side of the objective, holding it. You wasted 2 CP. 9 scarabs and wraiths plus 2 CP sound excessive to hold an objective.

**Odrankt**

p5freak wrote:
Odrankt wrote:

Wraiths Backed up by 9 Scarabs is what I use to hold an Objective. However I am saying I use the Nihilakh gem to grant them 2++ because. All they need to be is within 3" of an objective. even if your opponent is obj-secured you can still use the gem meaning you give them a hard time in their CC phase.

Do you know that your opponent doesnt need to attack you if you are 3" away from the objective ? He can also stay 3" away with his obsec (single model) unit on the other side of the objective, holding it. You wasted 2 CP. 9 scarabs and wraiths plus 2 CP sound excessive to hold an objective.

Yes I do know and I only pop the gem if im in CC. You charge the unit thats holding the object, end Of Turn you pop gem, you use Scarabs to make sure they can't fall back as well as back hp unit if not enough models died and than on their turn they have to fight you unless unit has fly but because of Scarabs they won't be allowed anywhere near the objective because of bodies and the unit as to be an inch away from any enemy model when called back

I have never wasted my CPs when doing that. I wouldnt suggest it if it didnt work for me.

**Blndmage**

How worthwhile is the Sef Destruction Stratagem?
I tend to run tons of Scarabs, but I'm usually really low on CP, so I never use it.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Blndmage wrote:
How worthwhile is the Sef Destruction Stratagem?
I tend to run tons of Scarabs, but I'm usually really low on CP, so I never use it.

It's a pretty fun surprise for your opponent if he fields single wound heavily armored infantry. A good roll can immediately remove 3 marines.
Not that useful against cheap infantry or anything more than 1 wound though.

**torblind**

p5freak wrote:
Odrankt wrote:

Wraiths Backed up by 9 Scarabs is what I use to hold an Objective. However I am saying I use the Nihilakh gem to grant them 2++ because. All they need to be is within 3" of an objective. even if your opponent is obj-secured you can still use the gem meaning you give them a hard time in their CC phase.

Do you know that your opponent doesnt need to attack you if you are 3" away from the objective ? He can also stay 3" away with his obsec (single model) unit on the other side of the objective, holding it. You wasted 2 CP. 9 scarabs and wraiths plus 2 CP sound excessive to hold an objective.

I'd happily take 2++ on my wraiths after I run them in my opponents face turn 1. If he also charges them then great, I get value from the +1A also.

**p5freak**

Odrankt wrote:

Yes I do know and I only pop the gem if im in CC. You charge the unit thats holding the object, end Of Turn you pop gem, you use Scarabs to make sure they can't fall back as well as back hp unit if not enough models died and than on their turn they have to fight you unless unit has fly but because of Scarabs they won't be allowed anywhere near the objective because of bodies and the unit as to be an inch away from any enemy model when called back

A model can move in base contact with enemy models when falling back, but has to end their movement more than 1" away.

**orkdom**

I feel like the benefit of the Nihilakh Strat on the Wraiths is really about not having to hide them or limit their movement to prevent a great weight of fire falling on them before they can really get into combat with a valuable target.

I've been playing my last few games with a mixed Outrider Detachment of Novokh D Lord, Nihilakh Wraiths, and 2 squads of Nephrekh Destroyers. I reserve the Destroyers for DS, and hide most of the other stuff in the army turn one, so my opponent has almost nothing to target besides the 2++ Wraiths that have just flown across the board.

I'm currently taking a Battalion and 2 Outriders, including 2 D Lords, 2x5 Wraiths, 2x6 Destroyers, and 2x3 Tomb Blades. One Outrider is all Nephrekh and the other is the mixed one, and the battalion is Nephrekh as well, and pretty bare-bones (overlord, chrono cryptek, and tesla immortals).

Immortals and Blades just grab objectives and hide in cover, the characters and Nephrekh Wraiths shoot up the board behind LoS-blocking terrain (Nova L's for me right now), the Destroyers are in reserves and the Nihilakh Wraiths just present themselves as targets on an objective. The army can absorb enemy shooting turn one without taking serious damage, and then turn two everything drops into position and locks up high value targets.

**Blndmage**

I didn't think you could mix sub factions in one detachment. How are you doing that?

**orkdom**

Per the Big FAQ, units in a Detachment must share at least one Faction Keyword other than thise Factions capable of "souping." So Necrons require only one, i.e. "Necrons."

**Slayer-Fan123**

Blndmage wrote:
How worthwhile is the Sef Destruction Stratagem?
I tend to run tons of Scarabs, but I'm usually really low on CP, so I never use it.

It's an excellent way to bring a unit down a bracket. I also killing a Roboute with 2 wounds once doing it.

**skoffs**

orkdom wrote:
Blndmage wrote:
I didn't think you could mix sub factions in one detachment. How are you doing that?

Per the Big FAQ, units in a Detachment must share at least one Faction Keyword other than thise Factions capable of "souping." So Necrons require only one, i.e. "Necrons."

Something tells me you're not going to be able to do that at a tournament. (I think you're going to need permission from a TO before you try running that.)

**COLD CASH**

orkdom wrote:
I feel like the benefit of the Nihilakh Strat on the Wraiths is really about not having to hide them or limit their movement to prevent a great weight of fire falling on them before they can really get into combat with a valuable target.

I've been playing my last few games with a mixed Outrider Detachment of Novokh D Lord, Nihilakh Wraiths, and 2 squads of Nephrekh Destroyers. I reserve the Destroyers for DS, and hide most of the other stuff in the army turn one, so my opponent has almost nothing to target besides the 2++ Wraiths that have just flown across the board.

I'm currently taking a Battalion and 2 Outriders, including 2 D Lords, 2x5 Wraiths, 2x6 Destroyers, and 2x3 Tomb Blades. One Outrider is all Nephrekh and the other is the mixed one, and the battalion is Nephrekh as well, and pretty bare-bones (overlord, chrono cryptek, and tesla immortals).

Immortals and Blades just grab objectives and hide in cover, the characters and Nephrekh Wraiths shoot up the board behind LoS-blocking terrain (Nova L's for me right now), the Destroyers are in reserves and the Nihilakh Wraiths just present themselves as targets on an objective. The army can absorb enemy shooting turn one without taking serious damage, and then turn two everything drops into position and locks up high value targets.

Read dynastic codes in the codex that is illegal. Every model must have the same dynasty for the detachment. - this is incorrect hes quite right its legal.

**orkdom**

COLD CASH wrote:

*snip*

Read dynastic codes in the codex that is illegal. Every model must have the same dynasty for the detachment.

Here it is for reference:

"If your army is Battle-forged, units with the appropriate keyword will receive the corresponding Dynastic Code, detailed opposite, so long as every other unit in their Detachment is from the same dynasty."

It is perfectly acceptable to mix dynasty keywords within a single detachment; however, if you choose to mix dynasty keywords, the units therein will not gain the benefits of the Dynastic Codes corresponding to their dynasty. I'm doing absolutely nothing illegal here, and have no need to ask permission of any TO before playing a list in this way.

It isn't even really power-gamey (not that one should necessarily consider such things when trying to play 'competitively', that's up to the individual); it's a small version of soup allowed such Factions as are not part of the larger Imperium/Aeldari/Chaos/Tyranids (with GSC) collections. If Necrons want to find ways to compete with the bigger Soups, it's something they need to at least consider.

**COLD CASH**

orkdom wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:

*snip*

Read dynastic codes in the codex that is illegal. Every model must have the same dynasty for the detachment.

Here it is for reference:

"If your army is Battle-forged, units with the appropriate keyword will receive the corresponding Dynastic Code, detailed opposite, so long as every other unit in their Detachment is from the same dynasty."

It is perfectly acceptable to mix dynasty keywords within a single detachment; however, if you choose to mix dynasty keywords, the units therein will not gain the benefits of the Dynastic Codes corresponding to their dynasty. I'm doing absolutely nothing illegal here, and have no need to ask permission of any TO before playing a list in this way.

It isn't even really power-gamey (not that one should necessarily consider such things when trying to play 'competitively', that's up to the individual); it's a small version of soup allowed such Factions as are not part of the larger Imperium/Aeldari/Chaos/Tyranids (with GSC) collections. If Necrons want to find ways to compete with the bigger Soups, it's something they need to at least consider.

I stand corrected, it is as you say quite legal. I was mistaking the wording for a different meaning. No codes but strats as you say are fine hmmm. Good fine print reading lol.

**orkdom**

Yep, hehe.

You just want to be careful to pick units that don't lose much/anything by not gaining the Dynastic Code attached to their keyword. So, Destroyer Lords from Novokh already hit on 2+ and re-roll 1's, which means the Novokh Codes don't help them any, but making them Novokh still means you can attack twice, and/or give them the Blood Scythe for it's bonus attacks!

**p5freak**

orkdom wrote:
So, Destroyer Lords from Novokh already hit on 2+ and re-roll 1's, which means the Novokh Codes don't help them any, but making them Novokh still means you can attack twice, and/or give them the Blood Scythe for it's bonus attacks!

Dlords hit on 3+. Even novokh ones.

I dont see any advantage in mixing different dynasties in one detachment.

**torblind**

orkdom wrote:
Yep, hehe.

You just want to be careful to pick units that don't lose much/anything by not gaining the Dynastic Code attached to their keyword. So, Destroyer Lords from Novokh already hit on 2+ and re-roll 1's, which means the Novokh Codes don't help them any, but making them Novokh still means you can attack twice, and/or give them the Blood Scythe for it's bonus attacks!

Hit on 3+.

What other units would you mix in with the DLord n a detachment that also don't mind losing the dynastic bonus?

**orkdom**

Eh, right, whoops!

Well the other apparent choice is the Wraiths, who probably won't be carting around any guns to shoot with, and so don't care about Nihilakh Codes, but can benefit hugely from a 2++ save.

For my Outrider detachment, I have two units of Nephrekh Destroyers as the other FA choices. They aren't really going to want to Advance much, but being able to leave them in Deep Strike with the Nephrekh strat is very useful since they're a high priority target for my opponents and they're not nearly as durable as the Wraiths.

I've not really thoroughly explored it. Anything that has Tesla is a decent shout for Sautekh, with access to the extra Hit bonus from the strat, but I don't know if any such units definitely would not also benefit from the Sautekh Codes?

The utility of the Sautekh Warlord Trait almost makes me want to just throw a Sautekh character in a list, but again, maybe you just take a Sautekh detachment with Tesla Immortals. Thinking of it, I'll probably try replacing the Novokh D Lord with Orikan; cheaper, becomes a similar combat character, and I can make him the Warlord for Hyperlogical Strategist.

The following, then, would be my current list (for Nova format):

Spoiler: