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We've had some tournament issues lately where the top 2 or 3 spots have been Necron flyer lists, this in turn has really brought down the moral of just about anyone who doesn't play Necrons.

Very simple rule change that I'm going to propose for future tournaments, at least until another few Ward Dex's come out to deal with them, is the following:

Night Scythes are no longer Dedicated Transports and may not be taken as such, the entry now falls under the category of Fast Attack.

Up to 6 flyers may still be spammed (the Fast attack and Heavy Support versions together) in a single FOC. It does not unduly punish Necron players, but it does bring the costs more in-line with sanity.

I don't like that, as then the night scythes would have to compete with wraiths, scarabs and tomb blades.

Here's an easier fix. Rather than changing the core rules, just put a limit on you tournament. Perhaps a limit of 3 flyers in any army.

 jy2 wrote:
I don't like that, as then the night scythes would have to compete with wraiths, scarabs and tomb blades.

Here's an easier fix. Rather than changing the core rules, just put a limit on you tournament. Perhaps a limit of 3 flyers in any army.

Agreed. What we are doing locally is this:

Under 1,000 Pts = 1 Flyer Max
1,001 to 1,500 Pts = 2 Flyers Max
1,501 to 1,999 Pts = 3 Flyers Max

It seems to balance the situation well, yet still leaves room for adding flyers to your forces.

I dont like it when a tournament regulates models like that.

There are options to deal with flyers that each army has access to wither through their own codex, Forgeworld that is also "40K approved" or allies.

Yea, CronAir sucks to play against and TFG that brings it is just doing it to roflstomp their opponent but it is a completely legal list and shouldnt be regulated away just because at present its a tough nut to crack.

In previous tournaments Long Fang spam/Draigowing/Blaster Boats have dominated the rankings. This is just the same scenario. Yes it's a tough list to beat but I don't see why these changes are needed. Stop crying that CronAir is at the top at the moment and find a way to crak it.

...You know, it wouldn't really be that hard to point out to people who are grumpy about Necron flyerspam that Aeronautica is perfectly fine in your tournament...Not to mention that you're picking on Necron flyerspam when Guard Vendettaspam is at least as broken, if not more (nine AV12 flyers with three twinlinked lascannons each for at minimum 1380pts (including the cheapest possible HQ/two Troops) versus nine AV11 flyers with short-ranged S7 guns for at minimum 1665pts (including a minimum Overlord and the minimum Warrior/Deathmark squads required to get the flyers)).

Necron Flyerspam is particularly difficult to counter because the counters are all more expensive than it is ($40 for a Doom Scythe versus $65 for a Valkyrie and Forge World models for most of the best anti-aircraft), it's not actually a particularly broken strategy.

Another option is to have objectives with skyfire on the board. Makes those autocannon guard/havocs and lootas a bit scarier.

Yeah, if flyers are such a massive issue at your tournaments, why not make an anti-air quad gun or Sky Fire Nexus available in each game, make it a central objective or something.

I'd put more then one if Cron Air is the trouble.

going all out on 100 point flyers tends to feel silly when they are only killing 3-4 boyz or guardsmen on the turns they actually get to shoot.

They are pretty good. I guess I don't mind people making up rule sets so they can play the game they want to, but it's still a gimmicky army, just the gimmick is a little more effectively costed than some of the traditional dumb tricks.

I'd be happy with that as long as I get to choose a unit in my opponents army to restrict.
I don't like Long fangs for example, or heldrakes.
I'd also like the vendetta to lose its transport capacity, and while we're at it, let's remove IC from Sanguinary priests.

The Cronair army is simply top tier at the moment, and that will pass as all things do.

This smacks of a tantrum throwing.

Every army's got a counter. Not every army's counter is available to every list or available to builders on a budget.

Try throwing three Avengers and three Punisher Vultures at a flying Necron army. I suspect the sheer volume of S5-7 anti-aircraft (60 twin-linked S5 shots at 24" from the Vultures, 12 S7 shots and 6 S9 shots at 48" range from the Avengers, 21 S6 shots at 36" from the Avengers) will take care of any flyers you will ever see, at a price tag of under a thousand points.

Try giving Guardsmen Sabers, and bunker up around forty point Skyfire/Interceptor twin-linked autocannons that can be taken in place of heavy weapons in Heavy Weapons teams.

Stack your Heavy Support section in a C:SM, DA, or BT army with Contemptors. Two twin-linked autocannons and a Cyclone launcher with Skyfire/Interceptor, AV13, and a 5+ Invulnerable save to stand up to return fire is a pretty darned useful anti-vehicle unit.

Give your Orks Fighta-Bommers and Ace Dakkajets; nine twin-linked S6 BS3 supa-shoota shots per Ace Dakkajet at barely more expensive than a Night Scythe, and fifteen twin-linked S5 Big Shoota shots per Fighta-Bommer are going to do quite a bit of damage.

Convert a few squadrons of Flakkatrukks, 75pts for a squadronable two-Skyfire/Interceptor-autocannon vehicle is pretty darned useful, especially when it can shoot at flyers after moving flat-out (translating to a 72" threat range).

Phoenixes may be expensive and better at ground attack, but six S5 shots and two S8 shots at 48" range is definitely nothing to sneeze at; Nightwings have to get closer to bring six S6/24" range shots to bear, but they're a lot cheaper, and both vehicles are tougher than normal flyers with 5+ Cover saves against everything (even things that ignore Jink saves) and if I'm reading Agile, Shrouded, and Jink correctly a 2+ Cover save whenever they choose to Evade, and three Nightwings and three Phoenixes are available to Codex: Eldar armies at barely over 1100pts.

The Firestorm is definitely another viable anti-flyer solution for the Eldar, it's pricey but a 60"/S6/Heavy 6/Skyfire/Interceptor/Twin-linked main gun is definitely worth the price tag for its ability to drop lighter flyers like Night Scythes.

The Tau have the Barracuda, Ion Cannon and Missile Pod together on a cheap (130pt) platform as a Fast Attack choice; or take squadrons of 1-5 Shrouded Remoras with double-range Burst Cannons, Seeker Missiles, and double-range Burst Cannons instead.

Chaos can get two twin-linked 36"-range autocannons on a flyer at a mere 115pts for a Hell Blade, and that's ignoring Flakk Havocs in the core Codex.

Dark Eldar are unfortunately stuck with solutions meant for ground attack, but 145pts for six S5 shots at 36" range is respectable, if nothing else.

Necron Flyers are powerful. The only reason they're quite this powerful is because nobody has figured out all the equally-broken ways of making them explode.

The problem is, when making a tournament list, you can't just stick an army full of anti-aircraft on the table because you won't have much left to deal with everything else. And as cheap as Necron fliers are, you will have to deal with other OP Necron units in most tournament lists.

 OutlawBandit wrote:
I dont like it when a tournament regulates models like that.
...

It used to be done all the time. It was called a composition score. It helped prevent spam lists and deathstars from being too prevalent, and the composition of tour army could negatively affect your overall score.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
The problem is, when making a tournament list, you can't just stick an army full of anti-aircraft on the table because you won't have much left to deal with everything else. And as cheap as Necron fliers are, you will have to deal with other OP Necron units in most tournament lists.

The vast majority of Aeronautica units can down Night Scythes at similar or cheaper prices, and most of them are reasonably effective at downing other enemy units as well. Keep in mind that a Night Scythe also includes the 65pts for a minimum Warrior squad to allow the unit to be taken, six Vendettas and a minimum 2 Troops/HQ are actually cheaper than six Night Scythes and a minimum Overlord.