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How would the hours heresy compare to the Necron war in heaven, in terms of scale of war, size of armies and how big an effect it had on the galaxy?

What do you mean by "impact on the galaxy"?

For the factions involved in the Heresy, the Heresy likely had a greater impact (Imperials, Traitors from the IoM who went Chaos... it's an important element of their background after all)

For the factions involved in the War in Heaven, the War in Heaven likely had a greater impact (Necrons, Eldar, etc.. it's an important element of their background after all).

For the stars and planets and rocks that keep on spinning round and round and round, neither of them had any impact whatsoever..

 Zweischneid wrote:

For the stars and planets and rocks that keep on spinning round and round and round, neither of them had any impact whatsoever..

In the old Necron codex the c'tan created blackholes just to do it. They destroyed whole planets to feed their hunger. At least in the old Necron codex the war in heaven was way more destructive galaxy wise then the horus heresy.

Both of them didn't have any large impact on the galaxy.

War in haven was larger because it was systematic destruction of Old Ones and C'Tan until Necrons were afraid of Eldar and go to sleep.

willhman wrote:
[

In the old Necron codex the c'tan created blackholes just to do it. They destroyed whole planets to feed their hunger. At least in the old Necron codex the war in heaven was way more destructive galaxy wise then the horus heresy.

In the new Dark Eldar Codex, Vect summons a black hole just to spoil a rivals party. In the Badab War series by FW, the Red Scorpions gut the super-massive stellar core from a nearby star and throw it at a space station (though the planet below, indeed the entire system, mysteriously survives unscathed), simply because they were low on "proper weapons" as reinforcements from the Imperium were slow to arrive. If that is a duct-tape strategy of a 40K Space Marine Chapter during the Badab War, I doubt it would impress any of the Legions at the height of the Heresy.

Doesn't seem a huge deal as far as 40K fiction goes.

And as far as an entire galaxy goes, stars die, black holes come, planets crash. It's the normal course of events. If the War in Heaven killed off a few star systems more here and there, I doubt it weighs in much in the overall scale of things.

The War in Heaven had a greater impact on galactic events than the Horus Heresy in terms of the galactic power balance and future consequences.

The War in Heaven gave the Old Ones reason to create both the Eldar and Ork races, adding two factions in the war. The interring of the C'tan into their living metal bodies heralded the arrival of God-like entities into the physical plane and the Necron's acquisition of immortality allowed them to have a near eternal presence in the galaxy.
The fall of the Old Ones and the imposed hibernation of the Necron force gave the Orkz and the Eldar room for growth, the first proliferating into the race with the largest galactic population and the second becoming the most powerful of all races in its time. If the Eldar had not risen to power, Slaanesh would not have been born and the Great Crusade might not have happened.
Because of the Necron's Phase technology and the Old Ones' version of the Webway, the War in Heaven spanned the entire galaxy.

The Horus Heresy was fought by Mankind and Daemon forces. The traitor Legions against the surviving loyalist Legions and the Imperial Guard. The fall of the Primarchs weakened the Imperium and benefited Chaos. The interring of the Emperor into the Golden Throne removed Mankind's leader and forced the Imperium into stagnation and decay while the Chaos Legions fled into the Eye of Terror.
Because of the Horus Heresy, the Space Marine Legions were given the Codex Astartes, the Grey Knights were founded, and the Chaos Space Marine Legion was formed.
Because of the limitations of Warp based travel, the Horus Heresy was fought only within the bounds of the light of the Astronomican.

The War in Heaven only sort of, you know, created Chaos within the Warp.

Gee I wonder.

But the Chaos Gods did not come into being untill Humans.

If there eldar had not stopped the void dragon from seperating the warp from reality with the warp suppression pylons their wouldn't even be chaos gods.

War in Heaven was a lot bigger/nastier. Entire suns/solar systems were extinguished and saw warfare on a galactic scale, whereas the Horus Heresy was far more limited to the Imperium and not nearly as destructive.

Where can I read about this 'War in Heaven'? It sounds wicked boss awesome... is it in the current Necron codex or something? I don't remember reading about it in the Eldar codex.

The old necron codex has alot about it.

willhman wrote:
The old necron codex has alot about it.

Wicked boss awesome! I think my FLGS might still have a copy.

It's similar to comparing a street brawl to WWII.

What if the question was changed to the great crusade?

 djphranq wrote:
Where can I read about this 'War in Heaven'? It sounds wicked boss awesome... is it in the current Necron codex or something? I don't remember reading about it in the Eldar codex.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_in_Heaven_(Necron)#.ULKfAodJNq8

thelordcal wrote:
What if the question was changed to the great crusade?

Same thing, even the Great Crusade was not that much devastating.

thelordcal wrote:
What if the question was changed to the great crusade?

The Horus Heresy lasted months cause it was pretty much a one time thing. They had to strike without the Iom knowing just how bad the situation was. The Great crusade was worst and it lasted longer but the war in heaven was just horrible. When the necron war engine was at its top nothing was safe. The Galaxy had almost no life in it. The great crusade still had alot of xenos and humans alive. The war in heaven completly destroyed entire race in a matter of hours. The Great Crusade was bloody but it only lasted a couple of centruies at the most. The war in Heaven lasted a long long time.

 Stonerhino wrote:
But the Chaos Gods did not come into being untill Humans.

FYI the Chaos Gods began to take form during the final part of the War in Heaven. The mass genocide of the Old Ones and the excessive use of what is now called psyker ability by the Old Ones and the newborn Elder caused great disturbances in the Warp. This led to the incursion of Daemons and the birth of the Chaos Gods which forced the Necrons to slumber so as to preserve the integrity of their forces.

Orkz had WAAAGH!!! so they weren't exactly affected. The Eldar were newborn and thus pure and without taint.

The WiH created Chaos, created the Orks, created the Eldar, empowered the Necrons, enslaved the C'Tan, and resulted in the destruction of the Old Ones.

The Horus Heresy crippled the Imperium of Man; all the other factions in the Galaxy basically ignored it.

Hm...

In terms of the scale of the war, the War in Heaven was a lot bigger and raged for a lot longer; the Horus Heresy was a fairly short but cataclysmic event with a few immense battles rather than the long galaxy-spanning war of attrition the War in Heaven is usually portrayed as.

BlaxicanX wrote:


The Horus Heresy crippled the Imperium of Man; all the other factions in the Galaxy basically ignored it.

Incorrect - the Horus Heresy was primarily a conflict between the Imperium and Chaos, but other alien races sought to ensure either Chaos won a total victory to ensure the mutual destruction of Chaos and Mankind, or a partial Imperial victory, as this would lead to Mankind falling into stagnation and decay, which ultimately lead to a complete victory for Chaos and the mutual destruction of Mankind and Chaos. The Cabal and its clients wanted to avoid a complete Imperial victory - Chaos would be defeated, but Mankind would not only be ascendant, but also progressing and bound to surpass all others.

The xenos within the cabal do not in any way, shape or form represent their factions. That's like saying Mark Wahlberg's comments about Sarah Palin represent America's feelings on Sarah Palin. Marky Mark is just one American out of 400 million americans. Similarly, the xenos in the cabal were just a few individuals out of billions of members of whichever race they belong to.

BlaxicanX wrote:
The xenos within the cabal do not in any way, shape or form represent their factions. That's like saying Mark Wahlberg's comments about Sarah Palin represent America's feelings on Sarah Palin. Marky Mark is just one American out of 400 million americans. Similarly, the xenos in the cabal were just a few individuals out of billions of members of whichever race they belong to.

Maybe not - but they were probably leaders/influential figures in their respective races. And regardless, a complete Chaos victory or a partial Imperial victory would both ultimately result in the mutual annihilation of Mankind and Chaos, to their advantage, and to Mankind's detriment. Had Alpharius and Omegon done their duty and slaughtered those filthy, FILTHY xenos like they should have done, and passed on that information to the Emperor, then perhaps while the Horus Heresy as a whole would not have been averted, then at least the events on Prospero, Istvaan, and Terra would have avoided, Horus would only have seven legions at his disposal (sans the Thousand Sons and the Alpha Legion), and a complete Imperial victory would have been won. The Emperor can get back to laying waste to the Warp, Magnus to conquering the Webway, and everyone else killing xenos filth. In fact, had the twins done their duty, maybe in a couple of centuries the Imperium would have the Eldar on the defensive both in real space and in the Webway, and maybe in a millennium would be well on its way to rivaling both the ancient Eldar and Necron Empires.

enooNaMI wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
But the Chaos Gods did not come into being untill Humans.

FYI the Chaos Gods began to take form during the final part of the War in Heaven. The mass genocide of the Old Ones and the excessive use of what is now called psyker ability by the Old Ones and the newborn Elder caused great disturbances in the Warp. This led to the incursion of Daemons and the birth of the Chaos Gods which forced the Necrons to slumber so as to preserve the integrity of their forces.

Orkz had WAAAGH!!! so they weren't exactly affected. The Eldar were newborn and thus pure and without taint.

The War in Heaven stired up the warp but the "Warp stuff" that would eventually become the Chaos Gods did not achieve self awareness untill much later. Beings in the warp did however become predators and invade the material realm. You ar however confusing the Enslaver Plague with the Chaos Gods and Daemons.

Khorne, was the First of the "Current" Chaos Gods to awake. Doombreed, one of his first Deamon Princes and he was human. And since there is no timeline availible on the amount of time between Khorne awaking and the accention of Doombreed. You can choose to believe that Khorne was around for 60+ million years and Doombreed just happened to be the first creature in the galaxy worthy of becoming his Daemon Prince. But I think that that is grasping at straws just to feel that you are correct. As in so extremely unlikely that it can be all but ignored as a possibility.

According to the Chaos Daemons codex the Chaos Gods have always been around and at the same time have never been around. So you're both right

The war in Heaven had a bigger impact by far.

 djphranq wrote:

willhman wrote:
The old necron codex has alot about it.

Wicked boss awesome! I think my FLGS might still have a copy.

Ask and ye shall receive

two versions of events at least

http://web.archive.org/web/20080521162602/http://uk.games-workshop.com/necrons/eldar-mythology - 4th edition version?

http://redelf.naxx.ru/w40k/ix/ix_eldar2.html - 2nd edition version?

willhman wrote:

The Horus Heresy lasted months cause it was pretty much a one time thing. They had to strike without the Iom knowing just how bad the situation was.

That's not entirely correct, the Age of Darkness was a span of 7 years from the end of the Dropsite Massacre to, i'm not entirely sure, the start of the Siege of Terra possibly, the Siege of the Palace itself took 52 days.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
According to the Chaos Daemons codex the Chaos Gods have always been around and at the same time have never been around. So you're both right

That's just daemon propaganda to make themselves sound cooler. It also allows the writers more leadway with their stories of "Back in the Days".

Stonerhino wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
According to the Chaos Daemons codex the Chaos Gods have always been around and at the same time have never been around. So you're both right

That's just daemon propaganda to make themselves sound cooler. It also allows the writers more leadway with their stories of "Back in the Days".

Its not necessarily propaganda. Chaos exists where there is Order. The names man gives to the denizens of other worlds may not exactly be their "true names" but rather a name given out of fear and misunderstanding. At least the Grey Knights Codex got that part about sorcery right... and the right word was leeway, not leadway.

Stonerhino wrote:

enooNaMI wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
But the Chaos Gods did not come into being untill Humans.

FYI the Chaos Gods began to take form during the final part of the War in Heaven. The mass genocide of the Old Ones and the excessive use of what is now called psyker ability by the Old Ones and the newborn Elder caused great disturbances in the Warp. This led to the incursion of Daemons and the birth of the Chaos Gods which forced the Necrons to slumber so as to preserve the integrity of their forces.

Orkz had WAAAGH!!! so they weren't exactly affected. The Eldar were newborn and thus pure and without taint.

The War in Heaven stired up the warp but the "Warp stuff" that would eventually become the Chaos Gods did not achieve self awareness untill much later. Beings in the warp did however become predators and invade the material realm. You ar however confusing the Enslaver Plague with the Chaos Gods and Daemons.

Khorne, was the First of the "Current" Chaos Gods to awake. Doombreed, one of his first Deamon Princes and he was human. And since there is no timeline availible on the amount of time between Khorne awaking and the accention of Doombreed. You can choose to believe that Khorne was around for 60+ million years and Doombreed just happened to be the first creature in the galaxy worthy of becoming his Daemon Prince. But I think that that is grasping at straws just to feel that you are correct. As in so extremely unlikely that it can be all but ignored as a possibility.

Well, we can assume you're right if we all agree that what counts as a Daemon is what is exactly on the Codex. But that's impossible as Chaos breeds more Chaos and nothing is constant in the twisting depths of the Warp (except the unbeatable, undefilable, shining Grey Knight with awesome abs... ladies and gentlemen, the guy who eats Chaos for breakfast! Kaldor Draigo!!!).

The corruption of the Empyrean logically gave birth to the Chaos God who proceeded to pursue destruction according to the aspect of Chaos it fed upon. During the War in Heaven, the reliance on Psyker powers logically gave birth to a Chaos God who fed on the fear and despair of defeat born of such a reliance. So the Enslavers can again logically be deemed as Daemons who served this entity. Then it might be asked "why are the Chaos God and Enslavers no longer around?" The psyker swarms died off. No more food. Thus it logically dies.

But I think that that is grasping at straws just to feel that you are correct. -
I resent this comment as it suggests infantility and ignorance on my part. I never named a specific Chaos God and never gave that argument about Khorne, you did. I take this as an insult and would ask you for a battle but can't because I have one Assault Squad painted so I'll go with this response:
I think that you are grasping at straws and putting words in other people's mouths just to feel that you are correct.

Right back at ya.

Back to topic and its progression to the Great Crusade:
War in Heaven still beats the Great Crusade in terms of scope and magnitude as the Crusade only reached up to the boundaries of the Astronomican. That was why the Emperor was trying to make a gateway into the Eldar Webway using the Golden Throne, to make it safer for the Imperium to traverse distances at the edge and beyond of the Astronomican. Too bad the Heresy caused the plan to fail.