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These discounts are huge. Infantry didn't get discounts but the weapons they carried got major drops. An arquebuses squad of 5 rangers is 65pts now, that's pretty good. Vanguard with plasma are cheaper.

Domminus dropped like 45 pts
Enginseer dropped about 15

Etc. Etc.

I think my list that is half knights got over a 100pts in discounts. I'm much more tempted to go pure admech now, these discounts really help me afford support I previously couldn't.

Need to see how this shakes out with the rest but so far it looks like we won big.

And before you ask, guardsmen are still 4ppm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and no Castellan point hike. He's still same price

Kataphrons might be useable now

How are feeling about rustalkers now?

 Ideasweasel wrote:
How are feeling about rustalkers now?

Depends on what they turn stygies into.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Skitarii infantry didn't drop as much as I expected, but so far this looks good. I assume GW wants us to buy more servitors, so they are making them dirt cheap (unless I did my calculations wrong, breachers are going to be 90pts and destroyers 120? Don't have the codex on me)

Also, plasma calvilers got a lot cheaper, and I assume the avenger went up in points?

Your latter point is what I wanted to bring up.

Skitarii didn't need to drop in price because the Special Weapons did. 10 Rangers with 3 Arqs is 115 points, and 10 Vanguard with 3 Plasma is 111. That's REALLY good and helps us make better use of our Strategems.

Breachers are 30-48 (40-58) pts now per model
Destroyers 48-55 pts (63-70). Weapon costs are still brutal on these, but its way better than the old costs.

 Thairne wrote:
Breachers are 30-48 (40-58) pts now per model
Destroyers 48-55 pts (63-70). Weapon costs are still brutal on these, but its way better than the old costs.

Yeah the weapons were and are more expensive than the model. I dunno if Kataphrons will become viable, it's still 150 pts for a pretty squishy unit.

The funniest thing - servitors now are useful.
With a 0 cost servo arm, you can fill an elite slot with 20 pts, making a brigade way less expensive.
Also, 15 pts for a heavy bolter, bs4, rerolling 1's/all hits? Worth it?

 Thairne wrote:
The funniest thing - servitors now are useful.
With a 0 cost servo arm, you can fill an elite slot with 20 pts, making a brigade way less expensive.
Also, 15 pts for a heavy bolter, bs4, rerolling 1's/all hits? Worth it?

That is a big drop, and can have some hidden objective holders that are even cheaper than rangere.. but I dont know if it is worth 50 points now for two heavy bolters?

Still, anyone know where the promised point cost of the magera knight?

 Thairne wrote:
The funniest thing - servitors now are useful.
With a 0 cost servo arm, you can fill an elite slot with 20 pts, making a brigade way less expensive.
Also, 15 pts for a heavy bolter, bs4, rerolling 1's/all hits? Worth it?

nope, not worth it. a HEavy Weapons Team with a heavy B is 16 pts and 2 wounds. never seen the light of the day.

Damn, that's a good day to be a Tech-Priest. My collection went from 2134 to 1814 pts, 320 pts cheaper !

Big winners in my opinion are Destroyers (waves of Kataphrons from Agripinaa might become doable), Breachers at 40 pts, although they still don't have any good use, Sicarians of both flavours, special weapons for Skitarii (I might build more Arquebusiers), Onagers (why, rule of 3 ?), Ballistarii, and my boys Kastelans with a rightful cost to the Combustor and a price decrease to Fists, although I can't read if it's 15, 25 or something else, anyone have an opinion ?

Cawl getting a hefty 50 pts price drop encourages even more Kastelan castles though. Not that it's a bad thing.

Coupled with the small points drop on my Dark Angels having 2 Battalions is easier than before.

 Aaranis wrote:
Damn, that's a good day to be a Tech-Priest. My collection went from 2134 to 1814 pts, 320 pts cheaper !

Big winners in my opinion are Destroyers (waves of Kataphrons from Agripinaa might become doable), Breachers at 40 pts, although they still don't have any good use, Sicarians of both flavours, special weapons for Skitarii (I might build more Arquebusiers), Onagers (why, rule of 3 ?), Ballistarii, and my boys Kastelans with a rightful cost to the Combustor and a price decrease to Fists, although I can't read if it's 15, 25 or something else, anyone have an opinion ?

Cawl getting a hefty 50 pts price drop encourages even more Kastelan castles though. Not that it's a bad thing.

Coupled with the small points drop on my Dark Angels having 2 Battalions is easier than before.

The agrapinaa strat still works on power level though, so you cant bring back any more than 3 destroyers -_-

The combustor is 15pts, retina ipad screens work wonders for clarity. Interestingly the eradication beamer went up 5pts to 30, makes the cheapest onager 100pts, while the rest of them came down 20pts. The rest are still pretty blurry even with a good screen. Heavy arc rifle looks like 6pts, which we knew already, cognis stubber down to 2 pts is nice too. The lack of onager squadrons is absurd here now.

My last list i fielded has dropped 231pts but that included cawl that i dont normally field. The cheaper balistarii helps me out but i was poanning on dropping onagers for helverins, i guess now i could just leave em in as well as the helverins lol. The cheaper HQ options are my favourite, a 165pt battalion is awesome.

Went through the point costs and checked how high the point drops are for our Codex units that aren't Knights. Some numbers are extremely blurred, I marked them as such:

PC = point cost
PPM = points per model
If no point post given for weapons then were was no change
All changes compared to current point costs

HQ

Enginseer -5 base cost, -12 servo arm (free) = 17 points down
Dominus -35 base (!) = Massive 35 points down, no changes Serpenta, Stubber, Volkite, Axe, cost of Eradication Ray too hard to read but looks like nerf (double digit cost).
Cawl -50 points (!) = Autotake for Mars, for other Forge Worlds having two Volkite+Serpenta Dominii is now only 6 points over what Mars pays for Cawl (instead of 14)

Elite
Sicarian Infiltrators = -4 base cost (no change weapons PC)
Sicarian Ruststalkers = -5 to PPM base cost, another -3 points if taking transonic blades
Servitors: +3 base (2->5), -5 for multi meltas, -5 for plasma cannons, servo arm now free = 4 points cheaper if PC or MM, 11 points cheaper with servo arms

Cybernetica Datasmith: -3 points down thanks to cheaper power fist

Troops
Rangers+ Vanguard: Plasma caliver -3, Arquebus -10, possibly cheaper data-deether (PC too blurred) = at least 6 points saved if taking 2 calivers, Arquebus Ranger Snipers now 22 instead of 32 points

Kataphron Breachers: -10 base, arc claw either no change or probably buff (PC blurred)
Kataphron Destroyers: - 15 (!) base, cognis flamer buffed (blurred but single digit PC instead of 10)

Fast Attack
Ironstriders: -10 base PPM, -5 for Autocannons and -5 for lascannons = 15 points down

Heavy Support

Kastelan Robos: -6 points for Incendine Combustor, Kastelan Fists buffed (blurred, 1X cost, looks like 15 points, which would be -20 points) = Possibly 95 points with fists and combustor which would be -26 points

Onager Dunecrawler -20 points per crab, Eradication Beamer +5, Cognis Heavy Stubber -3
= -22 points with Neutron Cannon, -24 with Neutron and both Stubbers

-----

Several units and weapons are listed but without actual changes to point costs. Might be possible that some numbers are wrong as with some earlier codex leaks this edition, but I assume that even if numbers are different in the printed release then it's those numbers that are literally the same as in the codex, such as Phosphor serpentas and both Compulsarii and Fulgrite priests. EDIT: Just realized those are the changes from CA17, included so you only need to own CA18 for all changes from the original Codex release.

Still, -35 points for a Dominus with Axe, Volkite and MStubber/Serpenta, -17 points for Enginseers (who, let's face it, were at least 12 points too expensive, especially compared with Datasmiths), -20 points for Icarus Crabs and -24 points for Neutron+2xStubber Crabs are big changes and benefit pretty much every list, while Ironstriders are now IMO very good choices for 60 points with Twin Autocannons or 80 with twin lascannons, especially as you can only take 3 Dunecrawlers (which you absolutely do want to take now that a Neutron and double stubber Crab is 119 points), while Kataphron Breachers for 30 PPM and Plasma Destroyers for 38 are much better as well.

Infiltrators really needed the point drop thanks to their fragility (at 18 PPM instead of 22 I can actually feel comfortable taking them to tourneys) and while 14/15 point ruststalkers don't make for a super good counter-assault unit, they are now at least decent.

Octovol wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Damn, that's a good day to be a Tech-Priest. My collection went from 2134 to 1814 pts, 320 pts cheaper !

Big winners in my opinion are Destroyers (waves of Kataphrons from Agripinaa might become doable), Breachers at 40 pts, although they still don't have any good use, Sicarians of both flavours, special weapons for Skitarii (I might build more Arquebusiers), Onagers (why, rule of 3 ?), Ballistarii, and my boys Kastelans with a rightful cost to the Combustor and a price decrease to Fists, although I can't read if it's 15, 25 or something else, anyone have an opinion ?

Cawl getting a hefty 50 pts price drop encourages even more Kastelan castles though. Not that it's a bad thing.

Coupled with the small points drop on my Dark Angels having 2 Battalions is easier than before.

The agrapinaa strat still works on power level though, so you cant bring back any more than 3 destroyers -_-

The combustor is 15pts, retina ipad screens work wonders for clarity. Interestingly the eradication beamer went up 5pts to 30, makes the cheapest onager 100pts, while the rest of them came down 20pts. The rest are still pretty blurry even with a good screen. Heavy arc rifle looks like 6pts, which we knew already, cognis stubber down to 2 pts is nice too. The lack of onager squadrons is absurd here now.

My last list i fielded has dropped 231pts but that included cawl that i dont normally field. The cheaper balistarii helps me out but i was poanning on dropping onagers for helverins, i guess now i could just leave em in as well as the helverins lol. The cheaper HQ options are my favourite, a 165pt battalion is awesome.

agripinaa strat works on a max of 6 destroyers.

I've always understood that we could go to 5 Destroyers without hitting he next PL threshold. Is there an FAQ about that somewhere ? In my mind you only pay more PL when hitting the 6 unit size.

https://imgur.com/a/QjcQNVK

Kastelan fists went to 25, Hydraulic to 5. Breachers got a lil' cheaper again (if for some reason you want the hydraulic and invest that point)

My current 1250 point tourney list with a Dominus, Enginseer, Datasmith, 5 Infiltrators, a unit of 8 Vanguard with two Calivers and teether, Lascannon Ironstrider, an Icarus and a Neutron Crab with max stubbers (as well as 15 rangers and 3 Dakkabots) just dropped by 142 points.
For the points I can take another Neutron Crab with 2 Stubbers and still have 23 points left over (that's another 3 Rangers or an Arquebus Ranger), assuming the one data-teether in my list didn't get discounted as well.

Also Transuranic Arquebus Rangers going from 32->22 points makes them much easier to include and justify.

Infantry Squads staying at 4 PPM while Chaos Cultists went up to 5 PPM is extremely hilarious though, but as a Cadia player I'm happy that Creed went down by 20 points (always played him, but at 55 he's an autotake) and both grenade launchers and flamers got point drops that jusitfy taking them over plasma guns on BS 4+ units.

Whilst this leak looks good for us and im sooo happy, just take some time to look at the rest of the leaks. A lot of armies got big drops as well (allegedly) which in the bigger picture wont change much in a competative setting. We field more, they field more. The more important things will come from the formations imo.

 Aaranis wrote:
I've always understood that we could go to 5 Destroyers without hitting he next PL threshold. Is there an FAQ about that somewhere ? In my mind you only pay more PL when hitting the 6 unit size.

Well, there’s no inbetween for power level costst. It doesnt say 10PL for 3 And 3.3PL for each additional. It say 10PL for 3 and +10 for up to 6. This is how battlescribe calculates it as well. For example as soon as you take that 6th ranger the squad goes to 7PL whether you take the other 4 or not.

Lago is right though, it works on a squad of 6. i remember them being 11PL at some point, 10 per 3 allows it to be used on a squad of 6 though, but does lower the value of those 3cp now theyre worth less points.

The points changes dont change my xmas purchase though, still gonna get a styrix i think. I’ll follow up with eisehorn and demonhost with acolytes at another time.

Envii wrote:
Whilst this leak looks good for us and im sooo happy, just take some time to look at the rest of the leaks. A lot of armies got big drops as well (allegedly) which in the bigger picture wont change much in a competative setting. We field more, they field more. The more important things will come from the formations imo.

so basically "If everyone is super, no one is" going on right now, which is fine! I am just happy to take another onager in my base lists in general.

What he's saying is that nothing has changed because the codexes that are better than ours got points drops comparable to ours.

It's like we went from level 10 to level 20. Everyone already at level 20 went from 20 to like 27.

Not as bad as it was before I'm thinking, but still getting beaten on.

I'm specifically referring to Tyranids, Eldar, Imperial Guard.

What we are going to do better against is Dark Eldar and Orks, so there is in the end a bright side. Dark Eldar was a real struggle for me, and they didn't get any discounts at all, and lets face it Orks don't need them at this point because their codex is amazing.

IDK about you guys but I kind of laughed at the utter madness of reducing the cost of Bellisarius Cawl. Absolutely terrible call (haha) by GW IMO, and I play him for feths sake.

Servitor Maniple leaked.
Couldn’t make out the warlord trait or relic, but the two strats give a unit of servitors a 5++ for the whole game (1 CP before game starts). The other gives a servitor unit +1 to hit during shooting phase while within 6” of a TPD. (1 CP)

Just saw the Servitor Maniple and I got to say, thats pretty ing tasty.

Sure it needs quite alot of command points and a certain set-up, but if you have Destroyers set up with a Dominus and a unit of Kastelan Robots you can get an 2+ BS (which also ignores "gets hot") by popping Elimination Volley and the new strat "Mindlock"
I do not think it is better then wrath of mars, but the cool stuff about this combination is that it is also available to the other Forgeworld and not just Mars.
Spend even more CP to make those Plasma Culverins hit even harder with Ryza's strat.

It also includes pre-game strat that gives an 5++ save to an unit of Breachers or Destroyers. Set them up on a objective and enjoy a 4++ save when activating Acquisition at any cost.


Source:

That's really really interesting and makes Servitor much more appealing.

Let's discuss the best FW for that detachment:
- Mars gets Cawl & double Canticle
- Stygies -1 to hit which is really good
- Ryza and Aggripinaa both have a strong stratagem for Destroyers

 lash92 wrote:
That's really really interesting and makes Servitor much more appealing.

Let's discuss the best FW for that detachment:
- Mars gets Cawl & double Canticle
- Stygies -1 to hit which is really good
- Ryza and Aggripinaa both have a strong stratagem for Destroyers

I think the Cawlstar on double Battalion, featuring Martian 4xKastelans and Agripinaa 6xPlastroyers, could work. I have to calculate it yet, but if I were able to put a Gallant in SHD, I'll be happy.

I think a small patrol detachment of a Ryza Dominus and one unit of six destroyers could be absolute bonkers.
6D6 overcharged plasma shots hitting on 3's rerolling ones, ignoring "gets hot", S8 +1 to wound and 3 damage.

That is tasty and not even that CP heavy.
First turn it cost you 3CP every other turn after that 2CP. Which is pretty much exactly the same CP consumption as Mars Bots and cost +/- just as much point wise (including the dominus) as 4 bots (without Cawl support).

EDIT:
Did some quick math and that combination does for its points way better then Mars Bots (with no Cawl) against T7 and T8. Solo targets just melt under the rain of plasma.
Against a normal Knight (with nothing special)
- 6 plasma destroyers do ~22 damage
- 4 Kastellan robots do ~13 damage
- 4 Kastellan robots (with Cawl) do ~19 damage

Against a 4++ knight
- 6 plasma destroyers do ~17 damage
- 4 Kastellan robots do ~11 damage
- 4 Kastellan robots (with Cawl) do ~17 damage

Against a 3++ knight
- 6 plasma destroyers do ~11 damage
- 4 Kastellan robots do ~9 damage
- 4 Kastellan robots (with Cawl) do ~14 damage

Sure dakkabots still got the upper hand against any horde army and enough stuff with great invuls or an alternative form of wound distribution (drones)
But I would argue that with this formation and the CA point drop, destroyers have become really interesting to use.

So I don’t know enough about these leaks but could you take two detachments and super size bots in a cawlstar so that you can do all this formation trickery as long as Cawl isn’t your warlord and you went double mars?

Or does taking Cawl gimp you from doing all this formation stuff?

I’ve probably read things wrong as I often do haha

You do not have to be afraid that Cawl blocks you from using this formation. He even has the option to fill out the Dominus priest slot needed for the formation and its stratagems.

 Arlen wrote:
Just saw the Servitor Maniple and I got to say, thats pretty ing tasty.

Sure it needs quite alot of command points and a certain set-up, but if you have Destroyers set up with a Dominus and a unit of Kastelan Robots you can get an 2+ BS (which also ignores "gets hot") by popping Elimination Volley and the new strat "Mindlock"
I do not think it is better then wrath of mars, but the cool stuff about this combination is that it is also available to the other Forgeworld and not just Mars.
Spend even more CP to make those Plasma Culverins hit even harder with Ryza's strat.

It also includes pre-game strat that gives an 5++ save to an unit of Breachers or Destroyers. Set them up on a objective and enjoy a 4++ save when activating Acquisition at any cost.


Source:

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0eDbjQTyc&feature=youtu.be

Cant watch it, could you or someone give the exact wording? Pretty please :-)

Iago40k wrote:


Cant watch it, could you or someone give the exact wording? Pretty please :-)

Sure

Servitor Maniple grants the Servitor Maniple keyword to all Tech-Priest Dominus, Engiseers, Kataphrons and Servitors in one detachment.

Get acces to the following WT and Relic.
WT Master of Bioslpicing, Sacrifice one servitor to regain D3 wounds on a Kataphron unit or if there are no wounded models, return one slain model.
The Genecog Corpus, Omnisiah Axe relic, deals D3 mortal wounds on a unmodified 6 to wound.

New strats.
Enhanced Bionics 1 CP
Pre-game stratagem, give a 5++ to an unit of Kataphrons from the formation detachment.
Noospheric Mindlock 1 CP
Add +1 to hit in the shooting phase for a single Kataphron unit within 6'' of a Dominus that is part of the formation.