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So; hands up who isn’t overly keen on the content of White Dwarf over recent years? I know this is quite a divisive issue, as there are many loyal fans who still love WD and won’t hear a bad word said against it, whilst there are others who have lost interest due to a (perceived?) lack of quality content and view it as merely a colourful brochure advertising GW’s latest shiny new offerings to its subservient followers.

What do YOU dislike the most about White Dwarf? Have you long since turned your back on it, or did you learn to stop worrying and love the Dwarf? It would be interesting to hear the (often maligned or just misunderstood) thoughts of Dakka!

Over to you, my Dakka brethren and sistren...

Peace!

Bah Humbug,

Since it dropped the RPG (Paranoia, Cthulhu, Judge Dredd, etc) elements it's been downhill ever since. As soon as they took the 'our stuff and nobody elses' decision it started to die.

Actually magazines whether they're gaming, cat or dogs, family history, rock climbing or whatever tend to look worse as time goes on.

That's because the reader learns about the subject over time, articles which would be new and interesting become old, stale 'but I know that already' articles. General hints, tips and info become less usefull as you become more focused on a specific part of whatever hobby you're reading about.

I think the key in deciding how well it's held up is to look at how many issues a brand new person coming into the hobby will buy before becoming dissatisfied.

Is it a weaker product than it used to be? probably (some of which is due to the amount of free online content about now),

is it as bad as many make it out to be? probably not, folk always used to start getting bored with it within 2-3 years, although maybe it happens a bit faster now

Have WD hate threads become more frequent since the relaunch or is it about the same?

 Flashman wrote:
Have WD hate threads become more frequent since the relaunch or is it about the same?

I think the first issue was received well but the new WD has been quite unpopular since.

Oh look, another WD thread.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Bah Humbug,

Since it dropped the RPG (Paranoia, Cthulhu, Judge Dredd, etc) elements it's been downhill ever since. As soon as they took the 'our stuff and nobody elses' decision it started to die.

Actually magazines whether they're gaming, cat or dogs, family history, rock climbing or whatever tend to look worse as time goes on.

That's because the reader learns about the subject over time, articles which would be new and interesting become old, stale 'but I know that already' articles. General hints, tips and info become less usefull as you become more focused on a specific part of whatever hobby you're reading about.

I think the key in deciding how well it's held up is to look at how many issues a brand new person coming into the hobby will buy before becoming dissatisfied.

Is it a weaker product than it used to be? probably (some of which is due to the amount of free online content about now),

is it as bad as many make it out to be? probably not, folk always used to start getting bored with it within 2-3 years, although maybe it happens a bit faster now

Well, Orlando - what can I say? You've lept straight in with a pretty well-balanced argument, you cad!

Seriously, though, this is just the sort of counter-argument I was looking for, and you have raised some valid points (especially regarding the 'but I already know that' articles). As with pretty much everything, you'll get lovers and haters (and no doubt fence-sitters - which incidentally I always imagined to be rather painful...) and there are no doubt plenty of things for people to like about WD, if that's what floats your boat.

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


Flashman - That's a very good question! I should have thought of that one...

I wouldn't say this is a WD hate thread, as such. I would just like to get an idea of what the community at large thinks. Cheers!

I'll put in my two cents as I still feel I am fairly new to Warhammer and the hobby having purchased the IoB set just after last Christmas. I bought a subscription to White Dwarf thinking it would help me expand my knowledge with the game and modeling/painting. Shortly after buying IoB, GW took down their painting guides from their site (luckily I had already printed off the ones I needed for my mighty Skaven). At that time I sent GW a well thought out email detailing my frustrations with this and never received a reply. The new "How to Paint Citadel Miniatures" book came out and I purchased that which has been helpful but it is not an end all, be all guide.

I enjoy looking at the photos in White Dwarf but I can go online and see all of these models on their website. I have been somewhat frutrated that basically for the cost of $10 a month I am getting a monthly catalog that does not have a ton of substance. Basically this is the type of periodical I would be sending to my store managers and employees on a monthly basis to make sure they were up to date on the product offerings for my company if I was the man in charge. This is not the type of magazine that I would envision sending out to consumers of my product to keep them interested and coming back for more and getting into other facets of the hobby.

There is alot of talent out in the gaming community and in my opinion the best way for GW to turn this magazine into something that would be picked up by the masses would be to start taking reader submissions to the magazines. I'm talking about full blown how to articles and not just photos. With the wealth of innovation and amazing skills out amongst the consumers it seems like a no brainer. If you look at other magazines in other hobbies such as Model Railroader they rely heavily on reader submitted articles. The magazine staff would set certain standards for submitting an article. The fees normally paid out for these submissons in other hobby magazines are generally very small and in the long run could end up being a cost savings to the White Dwarf budget.

I do not have all of the answers but I do know that I will probably not be renewing my subscription in a couple of months unless something drastic changes.

Of cource I should point out that when I was originally buying white dwarf we also got to buy

the Citadel Compendium (almost entirely a list & pics of minis)
eg: http://www.solegends.com/citcomp2/index.htm

the Citadel Journal (more of the same)
eg: http://www.solegends.com/citjour85a/index.htm

These meant there was more space in WD for other stuff, but GW still sold their own adverts, and we bought them......

Now since the other magazines have died the Dwarf has to do all three jobs

These less frequent releases were basically 'catalogues of minis' aspect of white dwarf to an

I dont love it, but i dont think it is that bad.

Lets be honest, the majority of people can't replicate a P3 studio painting but, its nice all of the details are given. With white dwarf it seems like the steps are edited with the idea that this is just the amount someone "wants" to paint.

The most recent one I've read was the issue concerning the Chaos release. I saw no reason to become butt hurt over it.

Even a few years ago it was a lot better. I'm not a veteran like most of the people here (only been playing 40k since 5th edition and even then I wasn't playing it properly - I ran squads of 3 Choas terminators with lightning claws ffs) but I can recognise that even if you look at the High Elf release WD and compare it to the new ones there is a huge difference in quality.

It's great to flip through, but I won't buy it. No please.

I'm gonna bitch about the iPad version. So not a content complaint bc I feel after 20 years of minis and WD I know what in getting into.

The iPad version is awful. Text is small. While some pics can be expanded and there are embedded 360 the painting articles shoul have this as well. I would love to see a 1 figure painting layout like they do in the how to paint iPad books (which are really good btw). I think the video embedded is a gimmick and does nothing but inflate the file size.

I hope it really improves as downloadable content.

iPad version is pretty, but I couldn't care less about GW staff videos embedded in there. Also, where the hell have all the short stories and fun little animations of Goblins getting fried by High Elf Dragons etc etc gone?

It's pretty bad in mattys book.

The problem is this; I don't think GW knows who their target audience is any more. Sorry for mentioning pricing it but the yearly hikes are putting paid to the idea that 40k/WFB/Lotr is aimed at youngsters. Now they seem to be stumbling about trying to find their market and they won't find it if they keep ignoring the people who like me still doggedly try to soldier on despite all the crap they throw at us.

Not that anyone cares, but my thoughts on White Dwarf:

More pages of adverts than actual content. The internet exists, I know damn well how to see what is coming out.

"Studio" army lists that ignore any real design or theme. They just put every model they have in the army, and then give them terrible gear and use them in terrible ways.
Has a new release army ever lost a battle report? Pretty sure those are just made up, and fotm units are written to look much more powerful than they are.

98 pages of retailers listed. If you bought the damn magazine, 99% odds that you bought it in a store that sells GW models. And again, the internet. No one uses print media to find retailers anymore.
Perhaps those pages are like that as filler due to a lack of actual content.

Painting tutorials are never anything new. They are the same techniques as every other GW tutorial just with the colors swapped. The results are always mediocre. Quit teaching people how to be meh.

Terrain articles are dead. GW feels that their rather limited selection of premade terrain is all a gamer will ever need. Ideally GW would release their own line of plasticard and a book or two with blueprints and tutorials. Creativity is dead when everything is premade.

I'm fine with giant pictures of models as I enjoy them, but the quality of paint job lately has been terrible. Goblin Town trolls? the painting on those is awful.



None of those things will change unless GW changes it's core demographic to people who have outgrown their twin mattress and have some amount of body hair.

I love white dwarf... Excellent bathroom reading... In fact, I've recently bought a subscription. Long live mediocre print media!

Ugly.

And this scene fits the topic just nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6thuiB_Kl7E

I can't believe people expect anything from White Dwarf. It's been a "ooh, ahh, pretty pictures" magazine for a long time now, and that's never going to change.

Look at Vogue. It's basically advertisements and pictures. People don't read it, they just look at the pictures. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE vogue. I always read it if it's around, and I'm contemplating getting a subscription to it, and GQ.

Anyway, just don't expect to much from it. GW is a modelling company, not a publisher (well...), and they don't have the printing ability to offer their high-gloss pictures for an affordable price.

Biggest failure? The only thing they offer that can't be found for free (and better) on dozens of different blogs/forums/etc, new rules, is an occasional limited-edition release that forces you to scramble to buy that month's magazine before it sells out. But they're so rare that it's a waste of money to buy a subscription just to get the 1-2 new things worth having each year.

Lots of interesting opinions, my fellow Dakkites!

Just out of interest; is anyone aware of any fanzine-type GW publications out there that have attempted to cater for the 'old git' section of the GW gaming community? You know; with articles on painting, modelling, tactics discussions etc.

Be interesting to know what has (or hasn't) fallen by the wayside...

Peace!

 Flashman wrote:
Have WD hate threads become more frequent since the relaunch or is it about the same?

After the first "re-vamped" issue, its pretty much the same.

Honestly I chose the first choice. But, I also bought the latest two issues and really liked the content.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
I can't believe people expect anything from White Dwarf. It's been a "ooh, ahh, pretty pictures" magazine for a long time now, and that's never going to change.

Look at Vogue. It's basically advertisements and pictures. People don't read it, they just look at the pictures. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE vogue. I always read it if it's around, and I'm contemplating getting a subscription to it, and GQ.

Anyway, just don't expect to much from it. GW is a modelling company, not a publisher (well...), and they don't have the printing ability to offer their high-gloss pictures for an affordable price.

I'd rather buy Vogue then White Dwarf lol
I started this all way back in 2002/2003
white dwarf back then was really good, I loved those army lists they put in there for people simply to "try for the hell of it" (not put actual codex's in there and make them terrible)
even lotr had rules for things and such, it was a really good magazine
now... there's not much to it... anything in there I could find online- for free
if I am going to pay them for something I want something for that money, anything remotely neat or cool I can't just find on google

11 people just looooooooooooooooove the Kool-Aid.

The biggest point remains that even after the "revamp" it's a $10 advert for products you already know about.

With who the market is for the magazine, this makes no sense. You are advertising GW to people who are already buying GW, and who generally know what it is they want. It's not the same as say a drum company putting an ad in Modern Drummer where they are competing in print with other drum companies. It's a GW magazine. Why should we have to pay to be sold to? Most companies give away pamphlets and such on new releases in order to sell more, not charge you $10 for the privilege of being advertised to.

White Dwarf needs to be published Quarterly. Think about how exciting it would have been if every 3 months we got a seek peek for the next season. A look at one or two armies and all the new content they are releasing. None of this 2 weeks of pre-order stuff. The fact is they have the readers; But, they don't have 12 months worth of content to fill the book.

 djphranq wrote:
I love white dwarf... Excellent bathroom reading... In fact, I've recently bought a subscription. Long live mediocre print media!

Actually, this is my biggest beef with it! IMO it no-longer serves as a decent toilet read, and I'm forced to keep copies of Reader's Digest and bloody furniture magazines as a back-up!

I think that's partly why there seems to be such animosity directed towards it - being left on the toilet after you have flicked over the last page and having nothing else to read while still undergoing a bowel-movement produces some primal emotional responses (anger/rage, a desire for revenge etc.)

TBH I could put up with it being ugly if it just contained anything at all that was worth reading. I bought the latest one out of forlorn hope and you can't even enjoy the battle reports any more, they are so contrived - you just know Gandalf didn't roll a fething '6' and he fell to his death at the end of the last one

 Flashman wrote:
Have WD hate threads become more frequent since the relaunch or is it about the same?

More common, and understandably so. It's more expensive now and people were expecting change to mean actual change.

I got the first issue of the "new" White Dwarf and was pleasantly surprised.

The second quickly removed almost everything I liked from the first.

Sadly, it's just not enough meat in there for what I'm looking for. No Quarter serves me quite well in that regard. It's a shame, but I'm at least glad to see GW trying... honestly I'm getting the impression they're afraid of making vast sweeping changes.